IRON MAN 3: Defending the Mandarin

IRON MAN 3: Defending the Mandarin

The portrayal of the Mandarin in Iron Man 3 has split audiences. Find out the reasons why we shouldn't complain about it here. SPOILERS!

Editorial Opinion
By untipoconboina - May 03, 2013 02:05 AM EST
Filed Under: Iron Man

The Mandarin. Iron Man’s archnemesis. The Asian Assassin, with his ten magic rings. A villain all of us know. There was a great hype about him being in Iron Man 3… and a lot of anger after knowing the twist. The twist is that he isn’t really the Mandarin, being instead Trevor Slattery, a drunken British actor hired by Killian to give Evil a face.

However, this twist makes perfect sense to me. The Marvel Cinematic Universe is an alternate Earth on its own right: Earth-199999. So, it is normal that there are changes. That is why Thor is more brutish than his 616 counterpart, Loki is quite younger than his uglier, original mainstream alter ego and Jarvis is Just A Rather Very Intelligent System.

Portraying the Mandarin as a terrorist only to have him proven a fool seems to me like Shane Black mocking Nolan and his obsession with turning comic book villains into terrorists. It is also a way of telling the audience “look, we have an Asian man with ten magic rings. This is the only way it can work in the film”.

The Mandarin as we know him would work in a Doctor Strange movie, or even –and this is a bit of a stretch– in a Thor movie, but not in Iron Man. Each Marvel movie has its own feel: the pulp-y Captain America, the fantasy feel of Thor, the techy Iron Man… Of course they all are part of the same universe and assembled in The Avengers, but their movies retain their original qualities.

Ben Kingsley nails it both as the “normal” Mandarin and Trevor Slattery. Having Kingsley play an actor who plays a villain works perfectly in the narrative and is a terrific joke about Ben Kingsley’s –usually typecast into villainous roles– own career.

Well, of course Iron Man 3 did some changes to the Mandarin and Extremis, but the Marvel Cinematic Universe is not a direct adaptation from the comic books. If I wanted to see the exact same story, I would read the comics again. Changing things when adapting a story is not a right: it is a duty.


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marvel72
marvel72 - 5/3/2013, 5:05 AM
Did you know?

iron man foes

the actor - a man who could impersonate anyone he saw.

first appeared in tales of suspense 42 (june 1963)

so we could still see the mandarin at a later date,they've sucked up to china once & got their money from them,now give us a proper mandarin & don't kiss china's ass anymore.
TheLibrarian
TheLibrarian - 5/3/2013, 7:03 AM
Totally agree! I thought the twist was brilliant and one of the best things about the film. Overall the film was not quite as good as I was expecting but this was mostly my own fault for building it up too much. Still it was a brilliant movie, at least on a par with the first one, if not better.
ruadh
ruadh - 5/3/2013, 8:04 AM
I haven't seen the movie, but I think the twist is brilliant. Totally understood it, in the same context you've laid out in the article. I'm sure it plays out way better in the film than by simply reading it, but that was my fault for being weak.

Going for the first showing tomorrow.
marvel72
marvel72 - 5/3/2013, 8:30 AM
didn't like the twist at all,i really wanted see the mandarin but that scene did make me laugh.
Minato
Minato - 5/3/2013, 9:13 AM
Marvel72
I didnt know about The Actor and that was a very good find. So Sir Ben Kingsley played the actor impersonating The Mandarin. Thats even better IMHO and Pierce played Mallen/ Killian. I never was mad at the twist because they never said that The Real Mandarin didnt exist just that Trevor was not him. In order to keep his identity secret Aldrich claims to be The Mandarin. This takes Tonys attention off of the ten rings organization and makes him feel safe which is more dangerous.
WYLEEJAY
WYLEEJAY - 5/3/2013, 10:04 AM
Mandarin........the real one, would work in an Iron Man movie. Its not magic, its ALIEN technology. Alien tech was introduced in Avengers. They could of given us Mandarin with his rings if they wanted to. They chose not to. I'm hoping for a good reason. Gonna see it this weekend. Why do I feel like so many people trash talk this version of the Mandarin when I feel like they don't know the actual Mandarin? The Iron Man animated movie used magic. That was the point of that film. Tech vs magic. I know the Makluans haven't been introduced in the films but aliens in general have. So why couldn't we have the rings? I was ok with them changing his ethnicity. The first time. Made sense. Not this twist. I hope it doesn't ruin it for me. I'm an optimistic person that doesn't mind change, but I'm hearing way too many complaints to the point its actually worrying me.
tonytony
tonytony - 5/3/2013, 10:11 AM
Your argument is weak, he had the opportunity to make a bad ass villain and instead turned him into jack sparrow. Sometimes people gamble and lose, this is one of those times.
NinjaBaby
NinjaBaby - 5/3/2013, 10:40 AM
Mandarin would've worked everyone was in the edge of their seats feeding into the Mandarin waiting for Tony to fly in and whoop his ass but, they did the twist instead, I'm not saying the movie was bad it was still my favorite of the three but, I don't wanna hear how ridiculous Comic Book Mandarin is, Whiplash is a ridiculous character in general who should have been aborted from the Marvel Cinema Womb HOWEVER we suspended our disbelief for that no one was upset about the questionable Avengers plot, why give up on possibly the best thing that could've escalated Marvel Cinema but...again that's all my rant still loved the movie I want to know if their were easter eggs
Minato
Minato - 5/3/2013, 10:49 AM
My problem with movie Mandarin wasn't plausibility it was necessity. I know that The Mandarin 10 rings and all would work on screen but its one of the cases like Spiderman 3 where the fans wanted one thing and the studio wanted another and they chose to mix. The Actor is a villian in 616 and Killian/Mallen is a villain in the 616 something tells me we haven't seen The Mandarin yet.
KoonEl
KoonEl - 5/3/2013, 11:13 AM
Mandarin would have worked fine in this movie. This movie had numerous references to the alien attack from Avengers, plus the main bad guys were a bunch of people that got really hot, blew up for some random reason, could die and regenerate body parts. If we have to suspend our reality for all of that we could easily accept a terrorist that has some sort of magical ability. We also had to accept that Tony's mark 42 could fly piece by piece indefinitely without the room for a propulsion system or any apparent fuel source. I thought that the "twist" was funny as played on screen, but felt let down by how much they hyped the Mandarin in the trailers and the performance that he gave. We already saw everything he did in the trailers. Accept for the phone scene with the president.

Back when Shane Black took over he said we would not be getting the Mandarin because he's a silly, racist villain. He did not lie because that wasn't the Mandarin. It was stupid. I have loved everyone of these movies so far. While I enjoyed this one, it was the worst one out of all of the Marvel movies in my opinion. Too much humor, a very confusing plot with the villain, and a big let down with Mandarin.
EdgyOutsider
EdgyOutsider - 5/3/2013, 12:04 PM
I like the twist. It's grown on me cause it makes sense. Comic book mandarin would look goofy and cartoony. It would never work. Alien tech that is pretty much ten magical rings? Certain things only work in comic books. Plus, it was brilliant the way they did it. You have Kingsley as "The Mandarin" who lets face it, is really too old for any action scenes anyways without risking his health more than if he was younger. Aldrich Killian is the mastermind behind it cause lets face it, anyone actually believe that a great actor (especially villain actor) like Guy Pearce would have a cameo appearance or something in the movie? The way they did the twist, characters and everything as far as Mandarin and Killian goes is great. I honestly think it'll be appreciated more when people realize that you can't do The Mandarin justice in a movie without it looking incredibly ridiculous.
untipoconboina
untipoconboina - 5/3/2013, 12:52 PM
@tobeyoungagain

Touché.
Morbius
Morbius - 5/3/2013, 1:07 PM
I did not like the twist it ruined the movie for me!!!!!
Minato
Minato - 5/3/2013, 1:29 PM
Yall realize the twist is the reason this movie is selling so well. People wanna know whats got the internet buzzing.
OdinsBeard
OdinsBeard - 5/3/2013, 1:57 PM
"The Marvel Cinematic Universe is an alternate Earth on its own right: Earth-199999"

WTF are you talking about???

"Portraying the Mandarin as a terrorist only to have him proven a fool seems to me like Shane Black mocking Nolan and his obsession with turning comic book villains into terrorists."

again.. WTF are you talking about??? if this is true then it makes black an asshole who selfishly stuck it to another filmmaker via a very consequential inside joke in a huge summer blockbuster.

i've never seen someone present so many assumptions and opinions as facts.

Kingsley as the mandarin, straight-up, would have worked. you even say yourself that he nails it when playing mandarin.(and then go back and say he wouldn't work in an iron man movie.) even the actor himself would have rather played it straight.

speaking of playing it straight, when i first heard the whispers of there being a very controversial twist to the mandarin's character i thought they were going to make him gay lol. something like that pales in comparison to making the mandarin not even exist.
untipoconboina
untipoconboina - 5/3/2013, 2:04 PM
@OdinsBeard

I'm talking about this: http://marvel.wikia.com/Earth-199999

And even though the straight part of the Mandarin is fine, I don't see how it could work in a hypothetical third act climax.
OdinsBeard
OdinsBeard - 5/3/2013, 2:05 PM
tobeyoungagain@ c'mon man you have absolutely no proof that this guy ever hated on nolan's decision making. by saying what you said you're just as guilty as those you accuse.

that being said - at least in nolan's movies the characters were who they said they were. and in the case of henri ducard and ras al ghul - at least that twist was a reversal of the mandarin twist and was contained to one movie and ras al ghul ended up looking and sounding exactly like his comic counterpart. it doesn't undercut anything that happened before it. as where the mandarin twist just raises so many more questions about obadiah, raza, the ten rings, aim, the us govt... is muddies the water when it totally didn't have too.
OdinsBeard
OdinsBeard - 5/3/2013, 2:09 PM
alright untipoconboina@ i kind of take back the first about the alternate earth. however i still don't really subscribe to it running parallel to 616 or ultimate or anything. it's not like those characters would ever cross over into the MCU. it's just the movie adaptations. it's fiction. it's a different medium. it doesn't need to be explained as existing in continuity with the comics.
untipoconboina
untipoconboina - 5/3/2013, 2:11 PM
Of course it's fiction, @OdinsBeard. I was just making a point of not getting angry about changing things from the original source. It's an adaptation, not a calque.
OdinsBeard
OdinsBeard - 5/3/2013, 2:20 PM
well i guess you're a better man than i. i take that approach with a few CBMs that change. i guess this is the one that get's to me. to me is just seems so easy to either leave him out or play him straight.

sorry for the hate in my first post. i guess i just got heated. haha.
BigBlue
BigBlue - 5/3/2013, 2:30 PM
i felt a little let down when i left, but that was because i had followed it for so long and really feel satisfied, but now that i think about it, it really is a good movie. and i see how the ending works, that it isnt the end of iron man, just the one that was behind the suit. i think well see an iron man (hopefully he makes a return) that knows the suit isnt all that he is and can be stronger than the tony that he once was, a self reliant genius.
NinjaBaby
NinjaBaby - 5/3/2013, 2:54 PM
Really this wouldve been cheesy?
NinjaBaby
NinjaBaby - 5/3/2013, 3:14 PM
That pic is similar to what whiplash looked like in IM2 and I like that pic you've shown also but, I feel as if some people were worried of that a lost of the technology feel in the to someone with powers like, Thor has powers no tech. Get me?
NinjaBaby
NinjaBaby - 5/3/2013, 3:53 PM
Right but they want to keep all of those aspects separate it's everyone unique attribute like IM tech related movie, Thor Magical, Captain America political, Hulk Brawler self-conflict
NinjaBaby
NinjaBaby - 5/3/2013, 3:53 PM
Then mix it all in with the Avengers
Tainted87
Tainted87 - 5/3/2013, 5:18 PM
Just got back from it.

I really liked Killian. Ben Kingsley was pretty hammy, but who doesn't love him for it?

Are people REALLY that buggered by the Mandarin not actually appearing, or do they feel slighted because of all the advertising?

Cuz I know it isn't because they LOVE the Mandarin from the comics. I mean please - the character gets a makeover in nearly every appearance - the writers can't decide what they like or hate about him, so they just start off with some clean slate. Can anyone REALLY suggest a four or five-star storyline even INVOLVING the Mandarin? I thought not.

Killian was cold-blooded. My only problem with his character was that his Extremis abilities weren't really defined - and his death didn't really show a body, so how do we know he's not regenerating somewhere?
AC1
AC1 - 5/3/2013, 5:27 PM
The only gripe I had with how the twist was played out was that Ben Kingsley seemed to be emulating Captain Jack Sparrow when he was playing Trevor Slattery - similar line delivery, similar inflections and mannerisms... still, I liked the twist, and I liked the film, but a small part of me is disappointed at Ben Kingsley being underused (although I also think it worked in the context of the film).
gmoney0505
gmoney0505 - 5/3/2013, 5:45 PM
@Tainted
It's all of it as the reason why people dont like it. There is just so much that is mishandled in this movie. They still try to make you laugh to hide the fact that they dont have a really tight plot in another movie.

It's one of the pissed poor twist ever in a movie. Marketing was misleading and plot was piss poor.
Even though its leagues above IM2, it is still no where near IM1.
OdinsBeard
OdinsBeard - 5/3/2013, 5:47 PM
tainted@"Are people REALLY that buggered by the Mandarin not actually appearing, or do they feel slighted because of all the advertising?"

i think that's what it is for me.
Tainted87
Tainted87 - 5/3/2013, 6:22 PM
Nah, it made sense.
Killian had created the Mandarin as a distraction, and a cover for his failures. Every time an Extremis mook goes boom, the Mandarin takes credit for it. He pretty much spells it out to Tony half-way through the movie, explaining that anonymity is most important.

The movie was fun and enjoyable, which is pretty much all one can ask for in the end of a trilogy.

I've never read Extremis, although I did pick up a couple of issues way back when JUST because I wanted to see a modern version of Mandarin. I think he was a resurrected corpse in the story - I was unimpressed. So with that in mind, I just wanted to see more Iron Man.

Yes, I realize I'm a hypocrite, but cinema is not the worse for wear because of it.
Spiderman2o29
Spiderman2o29 - 5/3/2013, 7:49 PM
So WHAT IF Chris Nolan's Joker Was actually an actor Hired by Two Face In The Dark Knight Then It Turns Out That Two Face Was The Real Joker. How Would You Feel ?
thoarnejones
thoarnejones - 5/3/2013, 9:17 PM
You guys really need to get over the Mandarin twist. Ben Kingsley is to old for the "epic final battle" you wanted. And we already knew his rings weren't magical. So...what were the expectations again?
gamecreatorjj
gamecreatorjj - 5/3/2013, 10:52 PM
Everybody is saying that they are okay with this because the mandarin is too goofy to actually do. You are all lying to yourselves, I'm sorry, this was horrendous, at least Whiplash was a real villain. I mean c'mon, an alien god possessing a mutant telepath, thats ridiculous, it could never be seriously done in an X-Men film, so they changed it for X-Men 3, and most of you hated it. What is with all these double standards, stop making excuses for this terrible decision just because it's Marvel Studios, they messed up, it's okay, they don't have to infallible, they gave Shane Black too much power over the film.
WYLEEJAY
WYLEEJAY - 5/3/2013, 11:50 PM
I think they knew they gave him too much power, and it was too late. They didn't like what he was doing, they knew the fans wouldn't like it, so they advertised it as something different to keep us hooked. Remember that interview with Whedon after he watched it? He said to Black he didn't know how he was going to follow that. Made it sound like a compliment. What if it wasn't? What if he was thinking.........how the hell am I going to fix this?

I hope I'm not right. Iron Mans my favorite character in the MCU.....yes I loved Iron Man 2......so this movie better not let me down.
JorEllinator
JorEllinator - 5/4/2013, 1:50 AM
They've hinted at the Mandarin since the first movie, it seemed to be building up to this. I think Jeremy Jahns summed it up best Killian wasn't the Mandarin, he just said that because he was behind it all. Going by this logic means that Talia is really Bane in TDKR and we KNOW that is not the case. I always bring this up, this is the public interpretation of the Mandarin, some goofy actor! It's like Sandman killing Uncle Ben in Spidey, it's like Catwoman having powers in Returns and the Catwoman movie (although Rises has kinda stopped that) people will think of this when they think of the Mandarin.
Spiderman2o29
Spiderman2o29 - 5/4/2013, 3:30 AM
@SotoJuiceMan Why do you ask questions to which you already know the answer to with my example and your response to how it would suck if chris nolan's version of the joker was an actor hired by two face and not the real deal. It sucks in the same sense that Iron man's mandarin is what The Green Goblin Is To Spider-Man, And The Joker To Batman. So when you take a villain like that and turn it into a joke, its the same slap to the face. Granted I am not a Huge iron man fan but I can totally understand how fans of the characters and villains would feel if they did to any of the spider-man or batman villains. If anything Iron Man 3 Was a complete parody to the dark knight rises. Same shit but with different characters. Nuff Said...
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