Is DC going full-on Marvel with Justice League a good thing?

Is DC going full-on Marvel with Justice League a good thing?

The biggest thing that everyone is talking about from the Justice League set visit recently is how fun the movie looks and how different it is from BvS. While the latter is probably a good thing, it’s worth noting that DC seems to be going a little too much Marvel.

Editorial Opinion
By Amaan - Jul 09, 2016 10:07 AM EST
Filed Under: Justice League
The biggest thing that everyone is talking about from the Justice League set visit recently is how fun the movie looks and how different it is from BvS. While the latter is probably a good thing, it’s worth noting that DC seems to be going a little too much Marvel.
Now, let me make this clear that this is not DC’s fault. Following the release of BvS, Snyder and co. got a tonne of backlash from critics and fans saying that the movie was too dark, for a Superman movie at least, and many have suggested that DC should start taking hints from Marvel. Snyder listened. And while that sentence deserves an entire article for itself, what’s worth noting is that Justice League looks like a total copy-and-paste of Marvel’s the Avengers. It makes sense that DC would want to follow in Marvel’s footsteps, since The Avengers is currently the fifth highest grossing movie ever, while BvS is far behind. When a movie led by Iron-Man, once a B-level comic character, outgrosses BATMAN AND SUPERMAN AND WONDER-WOMAN FIGHTING DOOMSDAY at the box office with better critical reviews and overall fan reception, well, it’s not hard to see what DC was thinking. And Civil War is raking in cash rapidly.
Here’s the official plot synopsis for Justice League:
“Fueled by his restored faith in humanity and inspired by Superman’s selfless act, Bruce Wayne enlists the help of his newfound ally, Diana Prince, to face an even greater enemy. Together, Batman and Wonder Woman work quickly to find and recruit a team of metahumans to stand against this newly awakened threat. But despite the formation of this unprecedented league of heroes—Batman, Wonder Woman, Aquaman, Cyborg and The Flash—it may already be too late to save the planet from an assault of catastrophic proportions.”
We also know that the movie will feature the Justice League hunting down Motherboxes, which are hugely powerful supercomputers that have an array of abilities as well as being able to open Boom Tubes, which can be used for teleportation. They’re the macguffins of the film.
Tell me these don’t remind you of the Tesseract used in Avengers. The Tesseract can also open portals to another dimension, allowing the Big Bad to come and conquer Earth. In fact, both objects are also “coincidently” squares. Yes, Avengers was released after Geoff Johns penned the New 52 Justice League, but as a movie, this just screams RIPOFF!
Oh, and a guy called Steppenwolf(LOKI!) and his army of Parademons(CHITAURI!) are hunting them down. Steppenwolf is a B level villain who’s obviously working for Darkseid(THANOS!)
You might have also noticed that a big part of this movie is focused on Batman recruiting the Justice League. While these scenes do look like a lot of fun, with Batman using a bunch of awesome-sounding vehicles to track the other members down, this, again, just feels awfully like a scene-by-scene copy of Avengers. I mean the similarities are uncanny. Batman seems like the last person who’d go around assembling a team, since his idea of the perfect vacation would probably be in an underground cave with bats for company, yet here he is, almost like he’s filling in Sam L. Jackson’s shoes for a Nick Fury type of character. They’re both experienced badasses with mentor qualities who the other heroes look upto.
The journalists who went to the set visit were shown a clip from the movie, in which Batman recruits Barry Allen for the JL.. Here’s a description of it by Devin Faraci of Birth Movies Death:
(In the clip Barry returns to his apartment, which is like a big warehouse space. There’s grafitti on the walls and a dozen TVs. He turns on a sparking fuse box to bring light to the place and the TVs jump to life. He walks into the main room and sees Bruce Wayne sitting in a chair.
“Barry Allen, I’m Bruce Wayne.”
“You say that like it explains why you’re sitting in my place in the dark in my second favorite chair,” says Barry.
Bruce, dressed impeccably, gets up and approaches the younger man. He holds out a printout of a screenshot of that Flash mpeg from BvS. He asks if Barry knows who that is.
“That’s someone who looks exactly like me but isn’t me,” Barry says. “He looks like a very attractive Jewish boy. He drinks milk, though, I don’t drink milk.”
Bruce tells Barry he thinks he has special skills.
“Sure,” Barry says. “I can code. I know sign language. Gorilla sign language.”
Bruce looks at the Flash costume that is mounted right in the middle of the room. “And this?”
“I’m into competitive ice dancing,” Barry says.
Bruce notes that the costume includes ceramic plates, the kind they use to keep the space shuttle from burning up on reentry.
“Very competitive ice dancing,” Barry says.
Then Bruce spins around and throws a batarang. Everything goes into slo-mo except for Barry, who quite casually steps out of the way of the oncoming blade. He slowly looks at Bruce, at the batarang, and plucks it out of the air. Everything returns to normal speed.
“You’re the Batman!” Barry says. “Can I keep this?”
“You’re fast,” Bruce replies.
“I think that’s underselling it,” Barry says.
“I’m gathering people with special abilities. There’s a great enemy coming -”
“I’m in!” blurts Barry.
Bruce is taken aback. So quickly?
“I need friends,” Barry says.)
This scene actually looks great. It’s fun. It’s hilarious. The chemistry between both characters looks good. DC has seriously adjusted the tone of its movies. And I can imagine at least one of the characters smiling, which marks a big step in Zack Snyder’s evolution. However, this scene strikes me as an awful lot like the scene in Captain America Civil War where Tony Stark recruits Peter Parker, except that Batman is pretending to be Iron Man and the Flash is cosplaying Peter Parker.
While this movie looks to be a hell of a lot better than both BvS and Man of Steel, and it looks like DC has finally figured out how to do actual, proper fan service, I’m not sure if I really want to see a SnyderMania remake of the Avengers.
When asked about how the tone of DC differs from that of Marvel movies, Ben Affleck said:
“DC movies, by their nature, are a little more mythic than some comic book movies are. But BvS was very dark and heavy because it was really rooted in Dark Knight Returns which is a heavy, dark book. And this is not that. This is a step in evolution in that to bring together all of these characters who have had their origins. It’s about multilateralism, and it’s about hope and about working together and the kind of conflicts of trying to work together with others. It’s a world where superheroes exist, so there’s comedy in that necessarily, trying to work with other people and people trying to accomplish goals together is the root of all great comedy in my view. So there’s definitely, hopefully some fun in it. But it’s not unrecognizably these characters or these stories. It’s not turning it upside down.”
What do you guys think? Sound of in the comments below.

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pwesterberg
pwesterberg - 7/9/2016, 11:18 AM
If they are going more marvel, it can only be a good thing. Not all the time though. Some movies will definitely need a different tone. But superman could do with being marvelised. I loved man of steel. Bvs was a slight step back, but I still liked it. I just want superman to be loved by the general audience the way captain America is. Marvel have somehow connected to the movie goers ( and rightly so, their movies are mostly excellent ) but dc seems to be struggling to do the same. A lightness of touch is needed every now and again.
BloodyBed
BloodyBed - 7/10/2016, 7:15 AM
@pwesterberg - "i just want superman to be loved by the general audience"

EXACTLY. supes should be universally loved, but many people in the world, myself included, [frick]ing hate his bvs iteration. that shouldn't be a thing.

"is superman being a douche?" shouldn't be a question people ask seriously.

if anything people should be complaining he is too nice BECAUSE HE IS SUPERMAN. BEING NICE IS HIS THING.





"if i wanted it you'd be dead already"

"surrender and i wont bring you in in pieces"

oh jeez superman you are such a great guy my kids love you, can i get your auto- OH MY GOD WHAT ARE YOU DOING TO ME WHY IS MY SKIN MELTINGGGGG

just the fact that people who like superman hate the movie and can go on rants like this says that bvs obviously didn't do very good. [frick]!
huckfinnisher
huckfinnisher - 7/9/2016, 11:24 AM
I agree that they seem to be copying Marvel a bit especially if no changes are made to the New 52 storyline. I don't like how they are treating Barry Allen though. How is he a csi and living in a warehouse with his suit in the middle of the room? I also don't like the whole thing of Barry needing Nasa plates to survive the friction of him running. It just doesn't make sense and sounds like an idea someone who really didn't know the character would think is cool. Flash is not harmed by the friction when he runs because his durability raises with his speed so that him running at top speed would only experience the same feeling as a normal person running at top speed. If this version of the Flash does not have the same ability then if he fell when he was running he would explode.
They seem to be turning Barry Allen into a hipster version of Wally West, which is just the dumbest idea, you know, because Wally West exists why not just use that character instead?
kong
kong - 7/9/2016, 1:37 PM
@huckfinnisher - "How is he a csi and living in a warehouse with his suit in the middle of the room?"

How? Well he got a job as a CSI and converted an old abandoned warehouse in to his home so that people wouldn't see him running in and out as flash and so he could work on experiments and a bunch of junk like that.

"I also don't like the whole thing of Barry needing Nasa plates to survive the friction of him running. It just doesn't make sense...Flash is not harmed by the friction when he runs...If this version of the Flash does not have the same ability then if he fell when he was running he would explode."

Nasa plates? He's not using plates, he 3D printed his suit using the MATERIAL Nasa uses for the outside of their ships so that they can re-enter without burning up. And the material is not so that he survives, but so that his clothes don't burn away. He can stand the friction, but they're being realistic in saying that his clothing wouldn't be able to. This is something explored in the comics, tv shows, etc. all the time and it makes perfect sense.

"They seem to be turning Barry Allen into a hipster version of Wally West, which is just the dumbest idea, you know, because Wally West exists why not just use that character instead?"

What about any of the things they've released about Flash makes him hipster? If your only argument is that Ezra Miller is playing him then tell me what's so hipster about his appearance here?:

http://imagesmtv-a.akamaihd.net/uri/mgid:ao:image:mtv.com:156789?quality=0.8&format=jpg&width=980&height=551

Nothing. You just say he's hipster because you can't seem to realize that these people playing these characters are called ACTors and ACTresses, which means it's their job to ACT like people they really aren't. Besides long hair and a beard doesn't make you a hipster. I don't think the CBM community seems to grasp what a hipster is.

Also, if they didn't use Wally fans (probably including you) would say "Why aren't they using Barry!!! Barry is the original flash!" If you think the only difference between Barry and Wally is comedy than you don't understand the characters. Besides, Barry can be a very boring character sometimes. We didn't need to have another stoic, serious, good guy on the team. We need comic relief, and Barry seemed like the best character to add that to the film.

Fanboys complain over everything. Stop reaching to find negative's that aren't there.
huckfinnisher
huckfinnisher - 7/9/2016, 5:07 PM
@kong - @kong - "How? Well he got a job as a CSI and converted an old abandoned warehouse in to his home so that people wouldn't see him running in and out as flash and so he could work on experiments and a bunch of junk like that."

I am talking about the logistics obviously man. I understand how buying property works. I am speaking of the fact that Barry a member of law enforcement has to have an address. His address is the old warehouse downtown? Nobody on the police force thinks that is odd? It is also usually illegal to live in a non residential building and something about the "...a sparking fuse box..." thing doesn't make me confident that the building would pass residential inspection. It's unnecessary and stupid if you actually think about it, why would he live in a unkempt warehouse where he is either living illegally or paying a ridiculous amount of rent pointlessly. It's is a subjectively stupid idea.

"Nasa plates? He's not using plates, he 3D printed his suit using the MATERIAL Nasa uses for the outside of their ships so that they can re-enter without burning up. And the material is not so that he survives, but so that his clothes don't burn away."

"Bruce notes that the costume includes ceramic plates, the kind they use to keep the space shuttle from burning up on reentry."

So he is using ceramic plates on his costume, read the article before you make yourself look bad. What was wrong with the comic costume? Why make this unnecessary change? It's as pointless as you trying to defend it. It does nothing for the character.

"You just say he's hipster because you can't seem to realize that these people playing these characters are called ACTors and ACTresses, which means it's their job to ACT like people they really aren't. Besides long hair and a beard doesn't make you a hipster."

Wow how pointless to explain this to a contrarian. Obviously I don't have all the information about the character. All I can go on is what information there is available. His overall look and demeanor are very cocky, he smiles smugly and congratulates himself after stopping thief in BVS. Yet he dresses like he is homeless, and obviously is doing so by choice as he has a "home" (if you can call a warehouse that) and a job where he could afford nice things. Based on all this information, all signs point to hipster, if you stop blindly defending things you would realize that. If you can prove me wrong then do. If not why dispute the facts we do have?

"If you think the only difference between Barry and Wally is comedy than you don't understand the characters."

Dude, everything points to Wally not just comedy, although Wally was a much more comedic Flash. Ezra is younger, not blonde, somewhat smug, somewhat irresponsible (suit sitting out in the middle of the warehouse? Using his powers in the convenience store instead of just walking outside and then using his super speed) all of these are Wally traits not Barry traits. Your just wrong.

"Besides, Barry can be a very boring character sometimes. We didn't need to have another stoic, serious, good guy on the team. We need comic relief, and Barry seemed like the best character to add that to the film."

This is my whole argument man. They are not using Barry's character. The Barry Flash was not the comic relief nor smug or irresponsible. It is just stupid and insulting to call him Barry and change everything else about him.

"Fanboys complain over everything. Stop reaching to find negative's that aren't there."

Everything I said was based on the facts that we have and in general all your saying is nuh-uh! providing no facts at all. That is a child's argument.
kong
kong - 7/9/2016, 6:48 PM
@huckfinnisher -

"I am talking about the logistics obviously man. I understand how buying property works. I am speaking of the fact that Barry a member of law enforcement has to have an address. His address is the old warehouse downtown? Nobody on the police force thinks that is odd? It is also usually illegal to live in a non residential building and something about the "...a sparking fuse box..." thing doesn't make me confident that the building would pass residential inspection. It's unnecessary and stupid if you actually think about it, why would he live in a unkempt warehouse where he is either living illegally or paying a ridiculous amount of rent pointlessly. It's is a subjectively stupid idea."

Remember, all of the set reports were what the journalists could make of the footage. That warehouse could VERY well just be like his "bat cave" and he has an official apartment he pays the rent for and marks as his address when need be.

"So he is using ceramic plates on his costume, read the article before you make yourself look bad. What was wrong with the comic costume? Why make this unnecessary change? It's as pointless as you trying to defend it. It does nothing for the character."

The plates are the individual pieces of the suit he 3D printed. If you "read the article" before you made yourself "look bad", you would also note that Barry gets a new suit from Bruce Wayne later on in the film that's more comic accurate. Plus, the suit he made from the NASA material could very well be comic accurate. You have not yet seen it so you can't judge what it looks like. I hate when fanboys make assumptions about things they have no clue about.

Also the fact that you only responded to that little section of my grander argument shows that you in fact DIDN'T understand that the plates were so that he doesn't end up naked every time he tries to save someone.

"His overall look and demeanor are very cocky, he smiles smugly and congratulates himself after stopping thief in BVS. Yet he dresses like he is homeless, and obviously is doing so by choice as he has a "home" (if you can call a warehouse that) and a job where he could afford nice things. Based on all this information, all signs point to hipster, if you stop blindly defending things you would realize that. If you can prove me wrong then do. If not why dispute the facts we do have?"

Congratulates himself? How do you get that from a smile? He simply could be smiling at the fact that a thief was halted before he could even realize what was going on. If smiling after stopping a crime makes you cocky then Superman, Wonder Woman, Spider-Man, and just about every other superhero is cocky too. Then, you say he looks like he's homeless because he's wearing a white t-shirt, a grey hoodie, a red and brown leather jacket, jeans, and white converse? If that's what a homeless person wears then what do regular people wear? He doesn't look bad at all and who knows if he dresses nicer to work. In the concept art we saw of him last year at SDCC he wore a button up-shirt and tie under his lab coat. He went to the store to get some milk, he doesn't need to look dapper. So being cocky (which he wasn't) and dressing homeless (which he wasn't) makes you hipster? Clearly you don't understand what being hipster is. Here are some images, infographics and a link to the wikipedia page so you can find out:







http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hipster_(contemporary_subculture)

"Ezra is younger, not blonde, somewhat smug, somewhat irresponsible (suit sitting out in the middle of the warehouse? Using his powers in the convenience store instead of just walking outside and then using his super speed) all of these are Wally traits not Barry traits."

Barry was young at one point too. He was just one of the few characters that aged over time in comics. Not being blonde isn't a character trait, it's an artist's choice. And is Grant Gustin basically Wally, cause he's not blonde either. How tf is he going to stop the crime from outside? He's going to have to enter the convenient store regardless, so he can't help that shit happening with the lights. Walking outside would've given the robber the chance to get more money or possibly even kill someone in the store. THAT'S irresponsible. Barry would've done the same thing. So right now comedy is the only thing you have, and Barry has definitely been portrayed as comedic before in the comics. Yes Wally more than him, but he's no Batman.

"They are not using Barry's character. The Barry Flash was not the comic relief nor smug or irresponsible. It is just stupid and insulting to call him Barry and change everything else about him."

Yes they are. All they need to do to use Barry Allen is name the character Barry Allen. They can do whatever the [frick] they want with him and fanboys don't seem to realize that. Why not call him Wally? So that down the line they have room to tell more stories with the Flash family, stay true to Barry being the first flash, and to add some familiarity for people who's only exposure to Flash is the CW show.

"Everything I said was based on the facts"

huckfinnisher
huckfinnisher - 7/9/2016, 8:25 PM
@kong - Remember, all of the set reports were what the journalists could make of the footage. That warehouse could VERY well just be like his "bat cave" and he has an official apartment he pays the rent for and marks as his address when need be."

Ah I thought this was confirmed his house. Well you got me there, if it is just his secret base then I guess that is ok still seems a bit cost prohibitive. My whole gripe was that him living in a warehouse just didn't make sense socially, like Iris etc. she just comes and visits him in the warehouse with his suit standing in the middle?

@kong - "Yes they are. All they need to do to use Barry Allen is name the character Barry Allen. They can do whatever the [frick] they want with him and fanboys don't seem to realize that."

Dude whut? I realize they can make a Chinese woman and name her Barry Allen that is not the point. I understand they can do what they want, there is a difference though in making a character true to origins and just slapping a characters name onto something un-recognizable.

"So being cocky (which he wasn't) and dressing homeless (which he wasn't) makes you hipster?"

Definition of hipster for you since all you have is pictures. "A person who follows the latest trends and fashions, especially those regarded as being outside the cultural mainstream."

Now that we can agree you are unaware of what a hipster is, we can move on. See that part that says especially those regarded as being outside the cultural mainstream? What do you call a guy who lives in a warehouse? A person regarded as being outside the cultural mainstream? The fact that he is very alternative by choice is what makes him a hipster in my eyes and in through the eyes of the definition.



Look at his Gomez Adams mustache dude. Definitely outside of the norm for the character as well as not being a very mainstream look. Hmm a thin mustache, I wonder if there is a group of people who consider that cool who are outside the social norm?
Ah yes. Hipsters like to wear thin little mustaches like that.

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/XcYRX9eOVGM/maxresdefault.jpg

Long hair on a man, conisdered fashionable by some but not the social norm, so it is hipster. Nut hair on chin, definitely not social norm, but fashionable in some groups, so hipster, by definition.

"Not being blonde isn't a character trait, it's an artist's choice."

"Trait" is defined by a distinguishing quality or characteristic. So Barry having blonde hair definitely is a character trait as it would be especially distinguishing among the other dark haired members of the league.

"Congratulates himself? How do you get that from a smile? He simply could be smiling at the fact that a thief was halted before he could even realize what was going on."

I say he seems smug man, you can disagree if you want there is just a very cocky look and he never seems the least bit concerned more like slightly annoyed. Just doesn't seem right. It is also very odd that he didn't come off as smug to you, when everyone I was with and have spoken to agreed that he seemed pretty smug and cocky just in the scene that we saw.

People have different levels of empathy though, so maybe you are just not very good at recognizing the feelings of others. Or maybe I was just reading too much into it, but I really think that is what they were going for.

"They can do whatever the [frick] they want with him and fanboys don't seem to realize that. Why not call him Wally? So that down the line they have room to tell more stories with the Flash family, stay true to Barry being the first flash, and to add some familiarity for people who's only exposure to Flash is the CW show."

This is my issue exactly man. They made the decision to change a beloved character in ways that add nothing to him to make him seem "cooler" so they can make more money. Why you defend them basically cash grabbing is so far beyond me I can't even imagine. Did you bastardize someone else's character for profit so you can sympathize? Am I a terrible person because I would rather see them make a movie about the character and just believe it will work rather than second guessing everything to the point where you have older than everyone killer Batman and tourettes Lex Luthor? Where do you draw the line on characters you love? how much change would it take to make you unhappy?

If the thief tried to stop Barry from leaving the store Barry could have just used his speed then as a last resort, the thief's attention would be on Barry so the cashier would be safe. More likely he could have just slipped outside maybe even using just above human speed to do so then come zooming back in and handle business as to create ambiguity as to who was the flash. He just seems to not really care about his secret identity which doesn't fit Barry's character.

"Nasa plates? He's not using plates, he 3D printed his suit using the MATERIAL Nasa uses for the outside of their ships so that they can re-enter without burning up."

See there where you said he is not using plates? And now you say
"The plates are the individual pieces of the suit he 3D printed."

So you were wrong man I don't see how you can argue that. Maybe you meant that the plates were in the suit but that is not what you said. Furthermore if he is using plates and they are the same composition as Nasa plates why does it matter that he made it? If I make iron and Nasa makes Iron it is the same thing, so you were wrong about him using Nasa plates as a whole, because not only are there plates, but they are the same chemical composition as those at Nasa. In this universe Barry has Nasa ceramic plates on his suit which is just unnecessary.

Obviously this is just my opinion, but they should have just kept Barry the way he is in comics, used Wally instead if they insisted on Flash being the comic relief or just scrapped Flash as comic relief and add Captain Marvel to the team in that role, being a child in the body of the most powerful mortal lends itself to all sorts of hilarious situations.

The facts I refer to are the changes made in source material.
kong
kong - 7/10/2016, 9:56 AM
@huckfinnisher - Wearing a hoodie, a jacket, some converse, and jeans is not a "trend in fashion". Clearly you're not paying attention to any fashion trends out there are you.

It's funny how a mustache and long hair makes someone hipster. If so I guess he has change in heart since Ezra Miller currently looks like this:


Blonde hair the how Flash is distinguishable on the Justice League? What about [frick]ing Aquaman who hair you can always see. You can't even see Barry's hair in his costume, and usually in JL comics, tv shows, and cartoons they're always in costume. Blonde hair adds nothing to his character and taking it away removes nothing also. Grant Gustin is a GREAT Barry and isn't blonde at all. Who cares? It's just nitpicking to nitpick. Not being like the comics doesn't make anything bad, it makes ti different. Learn to embrace change, especially when it's not for the worst.

Wait...so you're saying that Barry should've walked out the store, which would've gotten the thief to stop? How tf does that make sense. And he's protecting his secret identity because the Flash doesn't exist yet. I don't think he had become a superhero yet at that time. Remember that footage was from who knows how long before the events on BvS took place. Besides, super powered people aren't running around rampant in this universe yet either. The store owner and thief don't even know what's going on, their minds wouldn't immediately go to a guy who can run faster than the speed of light. Does anyone really expect the scrawny dude in the corner buying milk?

And yes, I'm not so stubborn that I can't admit where I'm wrong. They are "plates" 3D printed AT Nasa's facilities. The only other reports I have heard are that he stole them from Nasa so either way they are in fact NASA plates. And I think you're misunderstanding what his suit is. These plates aren't big squares he's placing over his suit. There are HUNDREDS of these "plates" which all come together to make the suit itself. The actual suit has 148 pieces to it. Besides, Bruce is giving him a costume upgrade anyway, and all of the set reports have described Ezra as looking great in the suit. Why be so pessimistic about a suit we've ONLY heard good things about? Yeah you have a right to be sceptical, but don't judge a book by its cover. No forget that. I should say, don't judge a book before you've even seen it's cover.

Ezra will probably be great as Flash. Get over the fact that he isn't blonde and that there's a GOOD explanation as to why his suit doesn't burst into flames every time he runs. Or the fact that he's funny. Why is it bad that he's a funny guy. That's something DC needs, and they don't need to ignore Barry's entire history as a character in the films and use Wally just because he's a source for comic relief. I'm sure you'd be complaining about DC movies being to dry if they didn't have a comedic character, and now you're complaining just because he's not always like that in the comics. Get a grip. There's nothing bad about any of these changes. You're just mad that there are changes.

I don't feel like arguing with you, because clearly you're so stuck in the mind of a comic book fan that you don't understand that comic book movies aren't made to replicate comics. If you want boring blonde Barry Allen who stops thieves by walking outside of the store they're robbing then go pick up a comic book. By the next Flash issue. Don't complain about something we haven't seen ANYTHING from yet. It's idiotic and ignorant. Goodbye.
huckfinnisher
huckfinnisher - 7/10/2016, 3:16 PM
@kong - The blonde thing was so minor man I don't know why you would harp on that out of everything I said. The only reason I even mentioned it again is that you said it wasn't a character trait but an artist's choice and I corrected you.
I meant in the cinematic universe it would have set Barry apart to actually be blonde because every other member of the league has dark hair in the DCEU. It was just a passing point about how staying true to the comic would have actually benefited them.
I'm not saying he is gonna be a terrible Flash, and obviously they took the hint that I and many others didn't like that look for him. I'm glad he looks much better this way and if they had him like this the first time this conversation would never even have taken place.
All I was saying was based on what I saw and the differences between that and source material I didn't like it much.
You keep saying don't complain about something I haven't seen yet. That is ridiculous man. I don't need to see the new ghostbusters to know it is gutter trash. I know I don't want to see any movie by Nicholas Sparks.
Speaking about the things we already know and expressing an opinion is not somehow attacking the movie. I want the movie to be good. I am not angry they are gonna make him the comic relief, it is just a huge departure from character. If he is the comic relief meaning consistently smart alecky or sarcastic then it is just a way different take on the character. Just a few throw away lines would be fine, Barry is about as funny as the next guy in the league and they found room for a laugh or two even in BvS and I'm fine with that.
"If you want boring blonde Barry Allen who stops thieves by walking outside of the store they're robbing then go pick up a comic book."
I wanted Wally. I hoped they would just kinda say there was a myth about a hero called the Flash a while back and that was Barry but he had died. I really don't care for Barry's character in the comics, I'm just saying if your gonna do Barry then do Barry.
"Get a grip"
Uhh c'mon man, to try to imply I am raging over these changes is really just not really true. I just said I didn't like them and thought they were dumb. I hope I'm surprised.
Thanks for the debate though man. Respect.
Utopian8418
Utopian8418 - 7/9/2016, 12:30 PM
The movie will get backlash anyway because of Steppenwolf, the absence of Green Lantern, and the Flash and Aquaman's looks.
kong
kong - 7/9/2016, 1:43 PM
@ManMan -

1) Are you assuming Steppenwolf will be bad before we even know who's palying him, or are you assuming that the majority of the people seeing this will actually care about what comic book character they chose to adapt to this movie?
2) Do you think the majority of the people seeing this will actually care about the absense of a character they either don't know about, remember as a black guy from the cartoon, or remember as Ryan Reynolds' BAD superhero role?
3) When did you see how Flash looks?
4) Most people seeing this film are familiar with Aquaman from jokes on Entourage, Family Guy, and Robot Chicken. Seeing this badass version of Aquaman will change the tide (pun intended) on Aquaman in pop culture. Only die-hard fanboys who love to hate on DC give two [frick]s about Momoa's costume. Also, we've only seen the suit twice in dimly lit places. The lighter tone this movie will have probably means lighter color correction which allow us to see the gold and green that's clearly present in behind the scenes footage from BvS.
Utopian8418
Utopian8418 - 7/9/2016, 3:13 PM
@kong -

Look man, I get that 50% of fans like the direction that the DCEU has taken, but you guys have to understand that there is 50% that just doesn't. And you have to understand that the reason for this is the departure from the source material. We just want them to adapt Justice League that we know! We want GL, the classic Flash, the classic Aquaman and classic Batman (no murder) facing a classic villain like Darkseid! Is it too much to ask? I UNDERSTAND that you like this alternate versions, the problem is that we, the other 50%, dont.

In my previous comment, I was talking mostly about the backlash on the comicbook community, so keep that in mind.

1) 50% of fans (including myself) will be mad that Steppenwolf is the villain in the first JL movie. I hate to compare, but in Avengers it was Loki, a classic.

2) 50% will care. And I wish you explain to me what you mean when you say 'they remember him as a black guy'. Wtf.

3) I've seen Ezra miller's face multiple times and at this point it is rather obvious that he won't have the classic suit. There has already been baclash about this.

4) 50% porcent of fans have a problem with Momoa's look. There has already been backlash about this.

There will be backlash about this film.

And no, I don't love to hate on DC. These are characters I love and its a really sad for us 50% of fans who don't like these 'alternate versions'. Hope you understand.
kong
kong - 7/9/2016, 6:12 PM
@ManMan - What you don't seem to understand is that 50% of the fan community not only isn't the majority, but is the SUPER minority of the people that will see this film. We are irrelevant to the studios. If only we went to CBMs they would flop every time. Even a movie like F4nt4stic that did HORRIBLE at the box office had way more general audience members than fans go.

Here are some things you need to realize.

1) You can stay faithful to the source material and it can still suck.

2) Most people were introduced to Green Lantern in the Justice League cartoons, which features John Stewart (a black guy) as Green Lantern. So much so that back in 2011 when the first trailer came out there was backlash about him being white because people didn't know there even WAS a white lantern, let alone that the majority of the human ones are.

3) People's minds can change, so even if there has been backlash about something before it doesn't mean it will continue.

4) If a movie is good, people forgive little nitpicks. If it's bad, people nitpick the shit out of it. For example: Ant-Man is NOTHING like the comics and is one of the least comic accurate Marvel movies ever, and yet people don't bring that up because most people liked the movie and were forgiving. I guarantee you if Momoa is good at Aquaman people won't say shit about his suit.

5) Yep! An actor's face is the deciding factor in how accurate their suit will be to the comics.

6) You just can't make up a percentage. Have you polled every comic book fan in the world?

7) Just because a character isn't big in the comics doesn't mean they can't make them big in the movie. Steppenwolf could be the next Darth Vader for all we know. It doesn't matter how much of a present they are in the comics, because all it takes is one writer to make him a huge villain in a good comic arc for him to be considered up there with Darkseid.

8) These movies aren't made for you or the fans that can't take any minor changes from their beloved characters. They're made for the pockets of their producers, so they can do whatever they want with the characters. Once you accept that, you can get over Batman killing. ESPECIALLY when it's been stated multiple times that he WON'T be doing so in Justice League.

9) Clearly using Steppenwolf is their way of leading up to Darkseid. Can you not come to that conclusion yourself?

10) YOU CAN'T TELL THE FUTURE SO NOTHING YOU SAY HAS ANY MERIT WHATSOEVER!
JustAChillFan
JustAChillFan - 7/9/2016, 8:33 PM
@kong - calm down man we get it, you care and love the DCEU, stop shoving it down peoples throats.
Utopian8418
Utopian8418 - 7/10/2016, 1:53 AM
@kong - Haha calm yourself, lets have a rational discussion.

I obviously understand fans are a minority. Thats why I said that my first comment was about fan backlash. So, keeping that in mind:

1) Obviously, I agree a movie can be faithful and still be bad. This has nothing to do with my point.

2) In your previous comment, it seems like you are saying that people won't care about GL because he is black. I know you didn't mean this but it seemed weird. Now again, I think there will be FAN backlash about his absence.

4) I think Antman was very accurate about Scott Lang, but it was not accurate about Hank Pym and that did make me angry. However, I don't think Antman is comparable to Aquaman and Flash. I like to think that Aquaman's look is as iconic to me as Superman's is to most DCEU fans. So I feel about him and Ezra the same way as you would feel about a blond Superman. Of course, all of this (how iconic characyers are for different fans) is completely subjective.

5) I didn't say that. I said that on one side, Ezra is vastly different from Barry. And on the other, the suit was said to be some kind of armor and the concept art suggests it will be different. It will not be the classic. And flash had a mustache in BvS..

6) When I said 50% I was obviously not being literal (I actually think that it is more than 50% of fans who have problems with the DCEU) but whatever.

7) But you said yourself that Steppenwolf was just teasing Darkseid. How can he be as big? It will not be satisfactory. An again hate to compare but Loki came from a different background and stood on his own. Anyway this point also depends on fan backñash or general backlash.

8) This is the most important point here. I know fans are a minority. But WB doesnt NEED to distance from the source material. They would do far better if they stayed close to it. And I have every right to complain if they don't care about fans. I will never get behind murderous batman. You are saying that "your" own studio doesnt care about you
kong
kong - 7/10/2016, 10:34 AM
@ManMan -

1) It has a lot to do with your point. You're saying sticking to the source material makes movies better, and it doesn't. It makes fans less angry, but does not in any way increase the quality of the film. Therefore, faithful adaptations can still suck, and changing things can make a movie better or worse.

2) In my initial statement I was saying the GA wouldn't miss a character they didn't recognize in his own solo movie anyway, due to John Stewart being a lot of people's intro to GL.

3 or 4? Not sure how we're doing this numbering thing) A costume does not make a character. The character makes the costume. I don't think Jason Momoa would fit in the shiny orange scales and green tights. But clearly he fits the Aquaman they're using in Justice League. If he didn't, why would they cast him? If his character is great I'm sure you'll forgive it. And if Superman was blonde it'd be jarring, but I wouldn't really give many [frick]s. The only problem I could gind is that Superman was created by two Jewish boys in the 30s who created him in the model of their religious figure Moses. To make Superman the "perfect", aryan, blue eyed and blonde haired white male praised by Adolf Hitler, it'd seem disrespectful to his creators. However, I could get over it as I'd understand the filmmakers weren't trying to spread a Nazi agenda. But I digress. Darth Vader's suit would be considered the dumbest, wackiest, ugliest shit if Star Wars was bad. But James Earl Jones was amazing, intimidating, and powerful, so we love Darth Vader and his costume design. I became an Aquaman fan with the New 52 and I think they'll borrow from that heavily, so I'm optimistic.

4) You said "I've seen Ezra miller's face multiple times and at this point it is rather obvious that he won't have the classic suit." which tells me you're saying he won't have the classic suit because of his face. Maybe that's not what you meant, but that's no DOUBT what you said. Also, Ezra Miller has not only bulked up, but has cut his hair AND shaved his beard/mustache for the role. To see an example scroll up. And the one piece of concept art we've seen was pretty comic accurate, with the exception of the lightning bolts on the sides of his head and the classic white circle. However the set visits have shown that the concept art used is not an accurate depiction of what it will look like in the movie. And bloggers who have seen it says it has the white circle AND the yellow boots. I'm not sure about the lightning bolts though.

5) The Emperor was teased in a New Hope, but that doesn't make Darth Vader any less scary. Loki was doing everything in Avengers for Thanos, but he was still great right? The source material doesn't make the character great, the script, actor, and film does. You can turn a mediocre comic-character in to a great on screen presence, and vice versa. I just hope they don't mention Darkseid too much throughout the film or he will be overshadowed like you said. Imagine if Steppenwolf is bigger in Justice League than we ever imagined. That means Darkseid will be even MORE of a threat. That's exciting to me.

6) I think they've heard fans cries and are actively trying to come back. Batman isn't killing anymore. Lex will probably be less of a lunatic, but we don't know for sure so I can't say. Superman will hopefully return with a more optimistic attitude and outlook on the world. Jim Gordon is apparently right off the pages. The world will be brighter and more hopeful, and we'll finally see the Pantheon of DC heroes together on screen. I'm a fan of Man of Steel and Batman v Superman, but I'm glad this is (hopefully) Snyder's last go around at the DC thing. I hate having fights like this every week trying to defend a universe that's only had two turns at bat, that's being compared to a universe that has had 13 that were all successful critically, financially, or both. I love Marvel and DC and just am hopeful for CBMs to be around for a while. Every time a lackluster CBM comes out the days we won't see these movies any more draws closer. I hope Justice League is amazing, and it hurts to see "comic-fans" wishing for it to fail or expecting it to before we even get a chance to see how it is. I'm just glad that expectations are low, so that the bar can be raised. There's nowhere to go but up.

And WB isn't "my" studio. I just like standing up for them cause they get wrongfully picked on a lot.



@JustAChillFan - Who's throat am I shoving it down? ManMan and huckfinnisher's maybe, but not yours. You have the choice of reading or ignoring my comments, and so does anyone else. If you don't wanna read them then go somewhere else.
JustAChillFan
JustAChillFan - 7/10/2016, 12:09 PM
@kong - I'm reading them, and you're shoving it down their throats, they are people. i never said you were doing it to me i said people, aka them. i'm pointing it out to you, for them. you also have a choice to not read my comment
TheManWithoutFear
TheManWithoutFear - 7/9/2016, 12:49 PM
This article doesn't make any sense.

The film doesn't come out for 16 months, i think we can reserve judgement for a little while.
Knightrider
Knightrider - 7/9/2016, 2:30 PM
I guess we have to hold judgement to the final movie, but I didn't mind the darker, more grounded style of BvS, it felt like a different universe.

The problem for BvS was plot, pacing, editing story. Maybe if they had released the Ultimate Edition in cinemas we wouldn't even be discussing the tone as a problem.

My only gripe is they didn't have much of a difference between Batman and Superman's worlds. I don't mind a conflicted Superman who questions his mission, but felt we needed more moments like the Mexico scene.

As mentioned, let's see the final product. Personally, you can't go to light as characters like Batman don't work. It's one of the reasons why Marvel splitting their characters in movies in TV works as it always the darker tones to be explored in DD and Punisher while maintaining the lighter tones of the movies
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