Editorial: Not Including the Dark Knight Trilogy in a DC Universe is a Recipe for Disaster

Editorial: Not Including the Dark Knight Trilogy in a DC Universe is a Recipe for Disaster

On the heels of David Goyer's proclamation that the Dark Knight trilogy and the DC Universe as established by the recent Man of Steel film are in a separate universe, Warner Brothers is looking down the barrel of a dubious road to a successful Justice League.

Editorial Opinion
By Forthas - Jul 05, 2013 11:07 AM EST
Filed Under: Justice League

When we see storm clouds gathering we usually know what is coming next. The recent announcement that Christian Bale was not in any talks to return as Batman in a rumored Justice League movie as well as David Goyer’s proclamation that the Dark Knight trilogy exists in a separate universe from the Man of Steel, the perceived corner stone of the DC Universe, were two such indicators that not all is right in the world. What troubles me is the report that Bale has not been contacted about reprising his role. It seems to me that it ought to be a priority for Warner Brothers to try to incorporate the Dark Knight movies into its reportedly planned DC Universe. Here are four reasons why Bale not returning to the role of Batman spells almost certain doom for the presumptive Justice League movie:

1) Rebooting Batman basically amounts to lowering the odds to less than a coin flip as to whether the audience will accept the new Dark Knight. Whoever takes over in the role will have to overcome comparisons to possibly the most popular iteration of Batman ever seen on film and is guaranteed to be criticized because they are “not Bale” or even Michael Keaton. They will also apparently not benefit from any lead in solo movies to acquaint an audience. The odds are very much stacked against the public embracing a new Batman…so why chance it?

2) It would have been a marketing bonanza for Warner Brothers to incorporate their most successful superhero trilogy and boost the odds of success for a Justice League movie. It would also neutralize Marvels boastful claim that its shared universe was the first since the Dark Knight Trilogy predates Marvel's shared universe. The comparable Avengers movie was boosted by 5 films that were successful. Ignoring the already successful Dark Knight movies means that Warner Brothers would then need to produce additional successful solo movies that tie in. Given their recent failure with Green Lantern it may be easier said than done.

3) Despite popular and widespread belief, the end of The Dark Knight Rises seamlessly blends with Man of Steel. Rebooting Batman on the contrary invites the question “Where was Batman during the events of Man of Steel? “ The answer is not an easy one to come up with without inviting even more questions.

4) Incorporating The Dark Knight movies is a winning situation all around. Resuming the role of Batman is probably the largest payday that Christian Bale can get; Christopher Nolan would be on the verge of masterminding one of the most epic superhero series in history perhaps catapulting him to the level of a Steven Spielberg; and Warner Brothers would have already in place a deep track record of popular and epic films leading to the Justice League. It would not require the additional investment in time and money to move forward. This would allow them to more quickly move toward putting the first Justice League movie out.

I am sure many will bring up the following “reasons” why Batman should be rebooted, so let me address them upfront.

CHRISTIAN BALE’S AND CHRISTOPHER NOLAN’S DECISION NOT TO RETURN.
As far as Christian Bale, this is a complete fallacy pushed by people who want Bale to somehow endorse a reboot by positioning what he actually said as an affirmation that he would not continue in the role of Batman. To be clear, the reason that Bale does not anticipate reprising the role points almost exclusively to a studio decision. In fact Bale has stated “My understanding is that this is the last one. I think it’s appropriate, I think it’s going out at the right time. But…if Chris came to me with a script and said, ‘You know what? There is another story’ then I would love the challenge of making a fourth one work." (EMPIRE MAGAZINE – May 29, 2012). Christopher Nolan on the contrary does not want to come back to the Dark Knight story. My response is …so what! Warner Brothers owns the character and while I am sure they may have wanted Nolan to direct the many suggested DC comic book adaptation, there is no real need for him to do so. There are many talented directors that could step into the role of directing the Justice League.

THE STORY IS NOT IN THE SAME UNIVERSE.
Christopher Nolan set out to make Batman series of movies that seemed to be possible in the real world. The resulting movies represented movies about a fantastic set of characters, Batman and the various supporting individuals placed in a realistic setting. Likewise Zack Snyder insisted that he was approaching Superman as if it were “real.” If both have admittedly tried to represent a realistic world…isn’t that the SAME world? The world of Man of Steel prior to the revelation of an alien could certainly be the same world that was inhabited by the Bale version of the Dark Knight. In addition, the Dark Knight movies are themselves filled with fantastic plot points that could only exist in a comic book. It has been claimed that efforts to make the Dark Knight movies as realistic as possible made it conflict with a world of super powered beings. Did it? The fact is that the Dark Knight trilogy was nearly as fantastic as Man of Steel. An annotated list of those fantastic elements include: an airborne hallucinogen that instantly causes someone to experience their greatest fears; a miniature tank (the tumbler/Batmobile) able to jump across rooftops; a microwave emitter that instantly turns water to gas; a device that summons swarms of bats; a device that can reconstruct shattered bullets to the point of being able to extract fingerprints; a cloth that becomes extremely rigid when an electric current runs through it; a sonar device that uses all cell phones to sonically map the environment around them; a propeller aircraft (the Bat) that is able to outrun rockets and nimbly maneuver through a dense urban business district; a device that can disable cameras; Bane being able to punch through concrete pillars; a software program that is connected to every computer and is able to erase all of your specific data from it; and a strap-on leg devise that can increase the strength and use of an injured leg…to name a few! Both films have expertly melded the fantastic with a realistic world and therefore both films are compatible.

THE END OF THE DARK KNIGHT RISES WOULD CREATE STORY CONTINUITY DIFFICULTIES.
Actually the opposite is true! Rebooting The Dark Night is what will create storyline issues. In a strange twist of fate, despite not intending that it do so, The Dark Knight Rises perfectly fits the events of Man of Steel. How?

Many have argued that the Man of Steel’s presence would need to be explained for the events of The Dark Knight Rises. However, the Man of Steel movie perfectly explains it. Clark Kent hid the fact that he was a super powered alien as his earth father instructed. While perhaps tempted to assist, there was no imminent threat to address in Gotham City during Bane’s occupation. Nobody outside of Batman and a few others knew the "bomb" was an imminent threat, Bane had assured the people of Gotham that they would “endure” and that Gotham would “survive “so it would have made little sense for Kent to suddenly reveal himself UNLESS he knew the bomb was going to explode on its own which he could not. He would no more interfere in this event than a terrorist situation half way around the world. It was inferred that Superman helped those who were in an immediate threat as he encountered them.

But, what about the other side of the coin? Consider that if WB wants to reboot the Dark Knight, they then would want to address where Batman was during the events of Man of Steel knowing fans will likely ask that very question. Therein lay a paradox. If it is established that Batman was already fighting crime, “Why then did he not respond to those events” becomes a legitimate question. Zod threatened earth a full 24 hours before the attack on Metropolis. That was plenty of time for Bruce Wayne to respond in some capacity to which Zack Snyder will either ignore the question and draw criticism right off the bat or try to come up with an excuse which may seem pathetically belated. In addition to the difficulty in coming up with an adequate excuse, trying to address the question by injecting an excuse after the fact in another movie will be way too obvious an attempt to shoehorn Batman into the DC universe. It will also mark a dubious introduction to the new Batman. So…perhaps he was not Batman yet which is why he did not respond to the events of Man of Steel. The problem here is that without an origin story no one will understand that he had yet to become Batman unless it is somehow shown on film. But in a Justice League (as opposed to yet another Batman) movie that is invariably going to take away from the introduction of the other Justice League members – focusing too much on Batman especially his origin. Even if they did so in a separate “World’s Finest” movie, the fact that Batman was not active would suggest that Batman became a hero AFTER Superman came onto the scene (the event of Man of Steel). If they do that, it calls into question Batman’s motivations. Why after witnessing a global threat and that amount of destruction can they then reconcile that Batman has been a traditional hero focused mainly on “Gotham City” almost exclusively in his early crime fighting life. Some have suggested that Superman became an inspiration for Batman. But wait… it has long been established that the inspiration for Batman was the death of his parents. Having him appear after Superman could then in part or in whole diminish the traditional story of why Batman adopted his persona. How could he witness the events of Man of Steel then become Batman ONLY because his parents were murdered? The massive loss of life and destruction of Metropolis must have somehow influenced him (in the real world). Again this would be a questionable way to re-introduce the character.

So then how do the events of The Dark Knight Rises answer all of these issues? The movie ends with Bruce Wayne in Europe pretty much without access to his resources as Bruce Wayne or Batman, THUS a logical reason why he did not immediately respond to the Kryptonians attacking. It would also not affect the events of his earlier life as being solely devoted to Gotham City since he would have been the first public “superhero” and therefore only inspired by the death of his parents irrespective of the presence of Superman. In addition, the destruction of Metropolis is a compelling reason for Batman to exit his planned retirement and use his resources to protect Gotham and the world in general from a future attack therefore it is a natural evolution of his superhero career and a logical expansion of his role in the world that would nicely require the assistance of others the other Justice League members. The fact that he was declared deceased at the end of The Dark Knight Rises is not a problem since they likely do not have a physical dead body and he can truthfully state he was being held captive in a pit by Bane. Also the fact that his former home is now an orphanage is easily remedied as Bruce Wayne can simply have another ancestral family home - perhaps the family home of his mother who also came from wealth which could be christened Wayne Mansion. The end of the Dark Knight Rises would also account for the establishment of a new Bat-cave (in a logical way) as Lucius Fox would need to relocate all of the hidden “applied science” weapons, the previous location of which was compromised by Bane. But Bruce Wayne is broke – actually not since: 1) his wealth was taken fraudulently; 2) the last Chairperson of Wayne Enterprises was Talia Al Ghul who is now dead and revealed to be a terrorist; and 3) much if not all of it was given to Alfred who would have no problem giving it back – the very thing he did in the first movie Batman Begins. In fact The Dark Knight Rises ends in almost the exact same way Batman Begins started – Bruce Wayne was declared dead and he was not in control of Wayne Enterprises and had given everything he had to Alfred. If it was not a finality that precluded him from becoming Batman then, there is no reason it is one now.

FANS WANT BATMAN THAT IS A DETECTIVE AND CAN FIGHT SUPER-BEINGS.
The idea that fans are clamoring for a more “comic book” Batman is a verifiable myth. According to Rotten Tomatoes 90% of viewers liked Batman Begins, 96% liked The Dark Knight and 92% liked The Dark Knight Rises. This supposed argument is the one I find most perplexing and is likely coming from a very small minority of vocal purists who want to see comic books literally come to life. It is an argument that is misguided on several levels. On the first level, the fact is that remaining faithful to comics this is one of the least constructive ideas that in other instances have consistently failed miserably. To Warner Brother’s credit, it has in the past attempted to make these types of films. However, purists were unable to save the 2011 Green Lantern movie which tried to be consistent with the key elements of the comic book version of the character. Of course it resulted in absurd plots points and scenes that blatantly violated common sense, the laws of physics and strained if not prevented the audience suspension of disbelief. Sure, certain characters like Superman and Wonder Woman violate physical laws but people are fairly familiar with why they are able to do so. Not everyone would be able to understand if Batman acted in a super human way. What the people who advocate for this kind of change fail to understand is that comics were not written to be consistent with live action events. In comics, the imagination is stretched to a point where physical laws are not as important. But when trying to translate it to film it quite simply looks ridiculous. Watching unabashedly fantastic movies with people violating the laws of physics without adequate explanation is almost always is met with unease, thus the almost consistent box office failure of the most fantastic and or campy superhero movies: Spawn, Ghostrider, Catwoman; and Green Lantern. Yet the more serious fantasy movies set in a realistic world has consistently with few exceptions done well at the box office including The Dark Knight movies, Iron Man, and Man of Steel. For a rebooted Batman to incorporate what this minority of purists are demanding is inconsistent with the direction that the DCCU is apparently taking. If Batman is able to do amazing “ninja flips”, and is able to ‘fight’ with Superman that invariably means he is not being portrayed as human violating the edict that Zack Snyder placed on his universe of treating the world as though it is real. On a second level, these arguments are wrong because they don’t adequately explain why it so important that Batman have greater than human abilities. The characters of Nick Fury, Black Widow, and Hawkeye in the Avengers film have human level abilities and that did not seem to prevent an entertaining and critically acceptable movie. Each contributed to the conflict in the movie in an effective and meaningful way. Finally on a third level of argument, Batman being an entirely HUMAN superhero is one of the defining traits of him. The three Dark Knight movies effectively balance that with what is - in the real world - more-than-human level feats including Batman defeating; a team of Carmine Falcone’s men in a shipping yard; another team of Scarecrows men; four trained members of the League of Shadows; yet another team of henchman protecting a criminal Chinese businessman; two SWAT Teams and the Joker’s henchman; Banes men guarding his subterranean lair; another team of Banes henchman attempting to kill John Blake; and a freakishly strong Bane (a super villain able to punch through concrete pillars)...all by himself! So was the Dark Knight an equally capable detective. During the movie series he: discovered the whereabouts of the Joker’s henchman in their plan to kill the Mayor of Gotham City; determined that a specific police officer would try to assassinate the individual who wanted to out his identity; discovered the real location and identity of cat-woman despite her finger print ruse to fool him; and he pieced together much of the back story for Ras Al Ghul’s relationship to Bane.

THERE IS NO CONNECTION TO THE LARGER DC UNIVERSE IN THE DARK KNIGHT MOVIES.
This is one of the easiest concerns to address. The Dark Knight Trilogy is full of characters and circumstances that could quite easily be attached to a larger DC Universe. For example, Ras Al Ghul in Batman Begins talks about the League of Shadows being active for thousands of years destroying decadent civilizations. That storyline could be made to relate to the history of the Amazons who may have encountered the League of Shadows in various conflicts in history and thus establish a common enemy with Batman and Diana, the Amazon Warrior Princess. In addition, a back story involving nuclear scientist Dr. Pavel who was killed by Bane, could tie into the introduction of S.T.A.R. Labs – Pavel perhaps a scientist for the group. For Warner Brothers, while unplanned, the incorporation of the Dark Knight movies into the larger DCCU would give them a marketing reprieve. Warner Brothers has been on the defensive as Marvel and the media has consistently made the case that Marvel “beat” DC in establishing its shared universe. The Dark Knight movies effectively eliminate that assertion since the movie Batman Begins predates any of Marvel’s shared universe movies. In addition the Dark Knight movies hyper accelerate the establishment of DCCU characters which would add up to four possible super heroes already established (Superman, Batman, Catwoman, and presumably Nightwing) not to mention already established and very popular sub-characters, Lucius Fox, Perry White, Commissioner Gordon and Lois Lane.

CONCLUSION
I see no reason to not incorporate the Dark Knight movies into a larger DC universe of heroes and every reason to do so. Since DC/Warner Brothers has yet to even announce a Justice League movie. It is my hope that they think long and hard about the pros and cons of not utilizing their most successful Batman franchise. It is hard to see a path to a successful Justice League if they don’t.

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LEVITIKUZ
LEVITIKUZ - 7/5/2013, 11:52 AM
Think long term:

We won't see Joker, Two-Face, Ra's, or Bane in another Batman movie if Nolan's exists.

We have Bruce Wayne that retired twice.

We have Bale who is around the same age I believe RDJ was when he began Iron Man, 5 years later he will only be in 2 more films we know of.

Wayne Manor is full of children. What do you tell them GTFO brats?

Bruce Wayne is bankrupt.

He no longer runs his company.

And so many reasons.

I love Nolan's Trilogy and every film in it. I would love for Bale to return and at least do a Batman/Superman film with Cavill. He was the best Batman/Bruce Wayne combo in film. BUT we need to think long term. Because Batman isn't a broken property like he once was when Nolan got him, its highly likely we will see a lot of talented directors wanting to do a Batman movie.

While we may not see Bale again, we need to think long term.
AreTudaEDub
AreTudaEDub - 7/5/2013, 12:32 PM
I LOVE THIS ARTICLE AND I WANT IT ON MAIN....TONIGHT!!! I agree with everything you said....it was a long article but it cover everything. @LEVITIKUZ don't browse and read the whole thing.

Also on your point of no Joker. He didn't die. Also these movie have to span a least a realistic time line. Realistically batman wouldn't fight characters indefinitely like the comic books.

@Forthas I agree they have to keep running to make this a powerful DCCU.
AshleyWilliams
AshleyWilliams - 7/5/2013, 12:46 PM
He wouldn't last ten minutes fighting aliens.

It's over.
LMFA0
LMFA0 - 7/5/2013, 12:51 PM
You make some really well thought out points. I must give you that. I read the whole thing, trust me it wasn't easy. My only complaint is that you really should break up your paragraphs more and add pictures. It may sound like nit picking but it sure would have made it easier to read.

Furthermore, while I commend your commitment to this article, I must ask why did you spend so much time on something that really is meaningless? Warner Brothers doesn't care, nor does Nolan, Snider or Bale. In fact, the only people that will read this are the people you constantly insult in your article (the small vocal minority that want Batman rebooted)

I'm not being mean, or at least not purposefully. But, really, you wasted your time writing this cause no matter what anyone on this site thinks, Batman will most likely be rebooted.

Why?

Christopher Nolan. I really don't need to explain this but I will. If Warner brothers does continue his story without his permission, there is a very likely chance that he will refuse to make movies for Warner brothers, due to the massive insult they would be committing. Do you really think that will happen? Probably not since all of his movies are "golden tickets" nowadays.
Forthas
Forthas - 7/5/2013, 12:55 PM
@ LEVITIKUZ

I have thought long and hard about the things you said and I tried to address them in the article. (Sorry for the length). But long term means waiting a LONG TIME when I don't see a reason that needs to happen.

But...just to address some of your concerns...the situation that Wayne was left in The Dark Knight Rises is exactly the situation he came back to in Batman Begins...he was declared dead, he was not in control of his company, and he left everything he had to Alfred.

Look ... I was initially ALL pro-reboot, but the more I thought about it, the more it made absolutely NO sense to do as I outline above. It is simply not reasonable...Nobody wins and it amounts to a needless gamble on the part of Warner Brothers and DC.
Forthas
Forthas - 7/5/2013, 1:04 PM
@ LMFA0

it is an OPINION that is why I wrote it. If it were to somehow make a difference then great, if not then I tried.

I did not mean to insult anyone. But I think the "vocal" minority are looking for a certain type of film and I believe it has a detrimental effect on ALL CBM's if they only reflect the views of that minority. And a Batman that can do ninja flips is heading in the wrong direction with that.

I don't see why Christopher Nolan would not give his permission. He specifically advocated for a Catwoman spinoff (basically an expansion of his universe) without him in the director's chair. I somehow believe that the people at Warner Brothers are having a hard time seeing how the films could be melded...which is why I spent a lot of the article addressing that.
Forthas
Forthas - 7/5/2013, 1:06 PM
@ NightAvenger

So how did Nick Fury, Black Widow and Hawkeye survive the alien onslaught in the Avengers?
Forthas
Forthas - 7/5/2013, 1:10 PM
@MexicanSuperman

"...which would make the general audience accept a new batman"

Movies did not "make" the audience accept Brandon Routh's Superman, Ryan Reynold's Green Lantern or Halle berry's Catwoman. Could there be an even better Batman than Bale? Sure! But why even take the chance?
EdgyOutsider
EdgyOutsider - 7/5/2013, 1:29 PM
I agree with Levitikuz and also... Christopher Nolan will NEVER reach Spielberg status. Spielberg is in his own league. Nolan is great. Spielberg though is completely different.

It is necessary to reboot Batman. It would be consistent in the DC Universe, it would open up for more stories and honestly, Batman is DC's Spider-Man. He'll make an ass ton of money unless it's Batman Forever and Batman & Robin.

The Dark Knight trilogy should never have been considered for a shared universe to begin with. That universe is in a universe that it has the highest chance of ever being plausible. Man of Steel isn't even close. Hopefully, they'll find a way to connect the movies together and have a consistent tone.
Forthas
Forthas - 7/5/2013, 1:30 PM
@ sintzu

Thanks for the vote! I appreciate it!

BTW ... When I saw the Wayne logo, in Man of Steel I thought EXACTLY the same thing. It is the same one on the building in Batman Begins...but Snyder said it was to say thank you to Nolan for his help.
Forthas
Forthas - 7/5/2013, 1:35 PM
@ Crossbones

Nolan may or may not not reach Speilberg's status, but if her were part of an effort to bring an epic Justice League to the silver screen (even as a producer), I would imagine his status as a film maker would grow considerably. I suspect that he wants his production company to be successful, so with the built in audience that the DC universe provides, it would seem like a no brain-er that he would take advantage of the opportunity.

While we may disagree, thanks for the comment!
Forthas
Forthas - 7/5/2013, 1:36 PM
@ sintzu

I missed that one!
thenerdicon4
thenerdicon4 - 7/5/2013, 1:40 PM
The reason why Hawkeye and Black Widow survived the whole alien thing is because they had semi-unrealistic human abilities. The scene where Widow jumps off of Caps Shield on to the alien glider, pssh, that couldnt happen. Also the fact that hawkeye can shoot anything without really aiming, not too realistic bro. Batman could barely fight in these movies. He was trained as a ninja and all he did was bare knuckle box. No kicking, no flips no real jumping. Nothing "Out there" Hi suit is too heavy for that. That is why aliens would kick his ass. He would be out of breath before they knock him in the face.

I thought this was a really well thought out article, but honestly, we need something new okay? This Batman has retired. He is done. He has a replacement now. WHy bother? He is chillin with Catwoman. he also apparently still has a [frick]ed up leg. And since he gave up after all that shit, do you REALLY. Think he would want to come back for the Justice League? No. Just let there be something new.

Also: Where was superman when all the shit was going down in Gotham? If we go by the Timeline of the film it was at least maybe 2016. However Superman showed himself in 2013 or 2012. One of the two. This begs the question, where was he? Even if it is set before Man of Steel. You cant tell me, Clark would see that shit going on and at least not try to help. I mean he went all around the world helping people in Man of Steel. Too many questions.
tonytony
tonytony - 7/5/2013, 1:41 PM
What could nolans batman have done against the alien threats superman was facing? Nothing, thats what. If anything including man of steel in bale batman would beg the question what superman was doing during banes threat to use a nuclear bomb, not where batman was during zods invasion. If anything it allows them to dodge a question.

Also reboots happen, deal with it.
tonytony
tonytony - 7/5/2013, 1:42 PM
I also firmly believe that in 10-20 years time people will put nolan in the same category as spielberg and george lucas.
tonytony
tonytony - 7/5/2013, 1:44 PM
Forgot to also add its a great article too.
Forthas
Forthas - 7/5/2013, 1:52 PM
@tonytony

Thanks for the vote! (Despite your disagreement)

"What could nolans batman have done against the alien threats superman was facing?"

During Man of Steel, if you recall(hopefully you saw it) it was a group of human (with no superpowers or even high tech gadgets) helped Superman and ultimately sent Zod's ship back to the Phantom Zone. In one instance the very tall Kryptonian who was with Faora was gunned down by an attack from a jet fighter. Even though it did not kill him I assume a Nolan Batman would have more potent weapons and would be more effective.

LEVITIKUZ
LEVITIKUZ - 7/5/2013, 1:54 PM
AreTudaEDub

Nolan would NEVER and I repeat NEVER direct another Batman film with a recast Joker. He didn't even reference him in TDKR out of respect for Heath.

sintzu

Valid point but what other villains would you have? The Riddler is really the last mastermindish villain Batman could use. One could say Hush but Joker is needed for a Hush story.

Also as I said, Nolan won't use another Joker other than Heath.

Forthas

Let's look at your article:

Rebooting Batman basically amounts to lowering the odds to less than a coin flip as to whether the audience will accept the new Dark Knight

Audiences accepted a new Superman & Spider-Man.

2)It would have been a marketing bonanza for Warner Brothers to incorporate their most successful superhero trilogy and boost the odds of success for a Justice League movie.

How? All you have to say is it's not canon. Your assuming the GA is stupid which they aren't. The GA knew Man of Steel was a reboot.

3)Despite popular and widespread belief, the end of The Dark Knight Rises seamlessly blends with Man of Steel.

Can't disagree but at the same time the ending of Green Lantern blended with TDKR and MOS because we see and know GL is going to be out in space for a while and won't be on Earth. One could say GL wasn't there for Gotham or Metropolis because he was in space.

4)Incorporating The Dark Knight movies is a winning situation all around.

That's opinion, not fact.

CHRISTIAN BALE’S AND CHRISTOPHER NOLAN’S DECISION NOT TO RETURN.

Maybe there not returning because they don't want to. They want to move on to other projects. Just making Batman movies does get old after a while. WB's needs to prove that they can succeed without Nolan in something.

THE STORY IS NOT IN THE SAME UNIVERSE.

Valid point.

THE END OF THE DARK KNIGHT RISES WOULD CREATE STORY CONTINUITY DIFFICULTIES.

How do you explain John Blake and the fact Wayne Manor is full of children?

THERE IS NO CONNECTION TO THE LARGER DC UNIVERSE IN THE DARK KNIGHT MOVIES.

Valid point.

At the end of the day, I wish to show you numerous Dark Knight Trilogy posters:











If you noticed, unlike the Iron Man trilogy posters, Batman has his mask on for all of them. Batman was the selling point, not Bale.

If Batman was rebooted, nothing bad could happen to it. My suggestion is just do this for the rebooted Batman:

LEVITIKUZ
LEVITIKUZ - 7/5/2013, 2:09 PM
I'm not saying "we need Joker" but at the least he should be in the reboot.

My idea? First scene of the reboot and we are already in the middle of one of Joker's harebrained schemes and we have Batman trying to stop it. We end the first scene with Batman stopping Joker and the GCPD arresting him meaning he's not in the film anymore.

Black Mask or Penguin can't work due to no more corruption in Gotham. The GCPD would never let another mob overlord happen again. Scarecrow has been done, Deadshot's lame because Deathstroke is better, Owlman and the Owls aren't the best idea for a first film, and I said Riddler could work.

If you were to reboot Batman, you have endless ideas and no holds on him.

Nolan doesn't WANT TO DO CBMs THE REST OF HIS LIFE
Forthas
Forthas - 7/5/2013, 2:42 PM
@ LEVITIKUZ

While audiences more or less accepted this Superman and Spiderman, a random look into any chat room and the comparisons are endless between Cavill’s Superman and Reeve’s Superman. In fact I think that much of the poor critical reception that Man of Steel received was unfairly focused on how much man of steel was not the Donner Superman. The same with Spider man! Some fans have accepted it but many have not and thus far that version of Spiderman has been less successful that its predecessors despite in both cases being a pretty good films.

The same way Sony said that Spiderman was a reboot and thus far its box office receipts are much less than the original Raimi version. That movie made $70 million more worldwide and that is without the 3D, and IMAX higher ticket prices. Even if the majority does accept the reboot, a small minority of people who don’t accept it means it is more difficult to match the success of the previous version. For example if I make ten dollars (a dollar per person) for ten people who like the first Spiderman. If only two of that ten don’t accept the second, one that means I can only make 8 dollars.

John Blake could be Nightwing. Wayne's mansion may be full of children but that is a minor point and I offered an explanation which I think is a fitting one. I stated “…the fact that his former home is now an orphanage is easily remedied as Bruce Wayne can simply have another ancestral family home - perhaps the family home of his mother who also came from wealth which could be christened Wayne Mansion” This I think is very minor and is not a big enough reason to not incorporate the franchise.

pesmerga44
pesmerga44 - 7/5/2013, 2:56 PM
I would have to say Nolan's Batman could not take on world threatening threats. He really wasn't a fighter, he had trouble sometimes with basic thugs, and he just wouldn't cut it alongside Superman, Wonder Woman, Flash, GL, and Aquaman. I loved Batman Begins and Dark Knight not so much Rises but it kind of left us with no where for Bruce to go to he is crippled, he has no money, he retired, and he passed on the Batman mantle to Blake. The issue is no one is really going to want to watch Blake they will want to see Bruce.
DarkGrifter
DarkGrifter - 7/5/2013, 3:02 PM
I would just like to point out a survey Ladbrokes conducted a while back. They questioned 1000 moviegoers on various comic book movies, one of these questions was whether or not they want to see Christian Bale back in the next Batman film. Of the 1000 asked only 25% said would like to see Bale back whereas 75% said they'd rather see a new actor don the cowl.

Also characters like Hawkeye, Black Widow and Captain America (I use him because he's supposed to be peak human) were all far better fighters than Nolan's Batman and it didn't seem strange or ridiculous to see them fight aliens. Putting a Batman who comes from a universe with no super-powered beings with the ability to only fight non-superpowered beings (a considerably smaller Bane, difficulty fighting dogs etc) into a universe where he must fight aliens, demons or other mythical characters would just be too ridiculous for the general audience to accept.

The only way you can have Batman stand and fight alongside a Kryptonian, an Amazon and a Green Lantern without it looking laughable would be to have a Batman who is capable of completing superhuman feats, not necessarily to the extent of comic book Batman (I don't want to see Batman trading blows with Darkseid) but at least to the point where you could believe Batman could take on aliens, demons or whatever a Justice League movie plans to include. As well as serving little purpose physically, Nolan's Batman doesn't even have the detective ability that would make him useful to the Justice League, not to mention he wouldn't be able to serve any purpose financially.
LoudNoises
LoudNoises - 7/5/2013, 3:04 PM
I don't think the Nolan's version of Batman would blend well with the direction which Man of Steel has established. If Batman is going to hang on any level with the likes of Superman or Green Lantern Batman's abilities would need to be a heightened version from those which we saw in The Dark Knight Trilogy. I loved The Dark Knight trilogy and honestly, as much as I'd love to see Bale come back and team up with Henry and other potential stars, I'd rather leave Nolan's movies out of the mix to be left on their own where they belong.
Forthas
Forthas - 7/5/2013, 3:11 PM
@beto

-If MOS was during TDKR or before: Why Sups didn't help? Why Bane didn't mention something? WHy there is no mention to the Alien invasion? ANSWER Superman had chosen to keep himself hidden until he thought he world was ready. He allowed his own father to die rather than reveal his secret. The events in Gotham was not an imminent threat. Bane assured (lied) to the people of Gotham that they would “endure” and “survive” only the people who knew the bomb would go off realized that the threat was imminent and it was a small few not the public in general. Therefore Superman would not have necessarily deemed that there was a compelling reason to intervene without blowing his cover.

-Bale 10 years older than Cavill, that means at least 2 movies less left for Bale than for Cavill. Ok Bale is slightly older but "Bruce" the character would be like 50 at least by the next movie (remember the 8 year gap beforeTDKR). ANSWER: Why even address how old they are? It is not mentioned in any of the movies so just let the audience guess.

-All those "fantastic" things that you mentioned on TDK were a stretch, that's more like a not-invented yet for some of those and a impossible-physics for others... nothing that hasn't appeared on every scifi movie that it is supposed to be "realistic". The enemies were not "fantastic" with a realistic view, all of the fantastic was taken from them even before constructing the image of the character. ANSWER : Fantastic elements were not totally taken out of it. If they are things that have not been invented yet, I could say the EXACT same thing about the gadgets the comic batman uses. What is the difference?

-Bale is retired why would he want to come back to fight an alien invasion? Why would he want to come back if he is seeing a Superman fighting them? ANSWER: The fact that Wayne retired BEFORE and came out of retirement means he is always willing to help. He retired the first time because he felt he was not needed. Let me offer you this logic. In the word of TDK, if another “Bane” type of villain was menacing Gotham City and john Blake was killed or could not handle it, you believe the personality of Bruce Wayne in the TDK series would just say “Oh well! Too bad!

-JGL would as batman, don't go there. ANSWER: I won’t

-How do you bring a death person back from the grave? Everybody believes that Wayne is dead? Would he return to life at the same time that Batman does?... oh suspicious indeed. Wayne was declared dead before…at the beginning of Batman Begins. He would handle it the same way. Plus he can truthfully say he was held captive by Bane in a pit...Heck Bane orchestrated the futures theft specifically directed at him so that would be Banes motivation to kidnap him and hold him.

-He is backrupt, he can go to Florence with what he got left but he can obviously not afford Batman: ANSWER: Technically, he actually does not need to be rich to be Batman. Lucius Fox gives him his gadgets which is purchased by Wayne Enterprises not his personal wealth. Plus his money was taken fraudulently which is simple to prove (the police commissioner was right there) and Alfred could restore what Bruce Wayne left to him, whichis exactly what he does at the beginning of Batman Begins

-TDK trilogy was good as it was, there's no need to put it everywhere. Sam Jackson was a badass on the StarWars prequels, would you want him also on Episode VII because he was cool before? ANSWER: Sure!

About the reboot

-It will bring more money in long term. ANSWER We have the example of Spiderman that suggests that is not the case although that could turn around.

-It is not that the people "want" a more comicbook-ish batman, it is that it is needed. Bale's Bruce was cool as real life person but his Batman would be useless aside of Cavill. Bale's Batman is not intelligent enough, Gadget-full enough, or a good strategist at all... everything good in him is just Morgan Freeman. ANSWER: Cavill’s superman was assisted by humans in the military with no gadgets or armor or superhuman ability to defeat Zod’s forces. Nick Fury, Hawkeye and Black Widow use little if any gadgets and they played a major part in defeating horde of aliens.

-A rebooted Batman wouldn't be defeated by dogs. ANSWER Batman was never ‘defeated” by dogs

-Batman wouldn't go fighting an alien invasion on the first 24 hrs of finding about aliens. He is a strategist, and surely before the first JL movie he won't believe that he is as good as Superman on these kinds of trouble. During MOS Batman is just a common criminal fighter, not alien killer.
ANSWER: If the world is going to be attacked in 24 hours I don’t think Batman would have a lot of time to strategize what he plans to do. But knowing the persona of Batman I would assume he would do something.
Forthas
Forthas - 7/5/2013, 3:20 PM
@ Pesmerga44

"Nolan's Batman could not take on world threatening threats." right that is why he would join the Justice League


"he had trouble sometimes with basic thugs"

I don't remember him having trouble with "basic thugs" unless he was fighting ten at a time.

The other issues you raised are all covered in the article about resuming his role as Batman and how it would be consistent with how he first became Batman.
Forthas
Forthas - 7/5/2013, 3:29 PM
@ DarkGrifter

I looked for your survey and I could not find it and therefor cannot comment on it.


"were all far better fighters than Nolan's Batman"

Nolan's Batman took down two SWAT teams by himself. Are you sure about that statement?


"The only way you can have Batman stand and fight alongside a Kryptonian, an Amazon and a Green Lantern without it looking laughable would be to have a Batman who is capable of completing superhuman feats, not necessarily to the extent of comic book Batman (I don't want to see Batman trading blows with Darkseid) but at least to the point where you could believe Batman could take on aliens, demons or whatever a Justice League movie plans to include."

So you are basically saying that Batman (who is human) should be superhuman?




Forthas
Forthas - 7/5/2013, 3:34 PM
@LoudNoises

"If Batman is going to hang on any level with the likes of Superman or Green Lantern Batman's abilities would need to be a heightened version from those which we saw in The Dark Knight Trilogy."


So the Nolan Batman being able to take down: a team of Carmine Falcone’s men in a shipping yard; another team of Scarecrows men; four trained members of the League of Shadows; yet another team of henchman protecting a criminal Chinese businessman; two SWAT Teams and the Joker’s henchman; Banes men guarding his subterranean lair; another team of Banes henchman attempting to kill John Blake; and a freakishly strong Bane (a super villain able to punch through concrete pillars)...all by himself!

Is just not good enough for you!
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