DC vs. Marvel -The Good, The Bad and Who's Gonna Make the $$$

DC vs. Marvel -The Good, The Bad and Who's Gonna Make the $$$

Read my take on which company is taking their films in the right direction.

Editorial Opinion
By AZSuperman - Apr 17, 2012 04:04 PM EST
Filed Under: Other

PROLOUGE: This is my first article on CBM, don't be too cruel, but I'd love healthy discussion.

I want to preface this with, I LOVE DC. I always have and always will. I grew up on Superman (Chris Reeves), Lois and Clark, repeats of Batman and Robin (Adam West), original Batman Gen 1 cartoon. I would also like to say that I own almost every comicbook movie (DC, Marvel and even Spawn) made since my birth, 1981. I also still have the original pilot episode of Flash (Dawson’s Dad) on VHS. I followed the death of superman religiously and to have Superman #75 debut on my birthday was heartbreaking and then 15 years later for Superman/Doomsday DVD to be released again, heartbreaking. I don’t think I took off my black armband for weeks. Why am I telling you all this? Because I want you to understand how truly loyal I am to DC. I loved Superman Returns, I loved Green Lantern. I still think that Brandon Routh and Ryan Reynolds were symbolic and legendary in their portrayal of some of the earth’s mightiest. Furthermore, I love all versions of Batman (including George Clooney). There have been things in all these incarnations that make you go “WTF,” albeit, the flip side is that we wouldn’t have any comic movies at all, so I am grateful.

So why am I writing this?

I am writing this because as I was surfing CBM and various spoiler sites for Avengers updates, something occurred to me. I believe that the Marvel Universe will be more successful on the big screen than the DC Universe. Is it because of content? Absolutely not! Is it because of CGI/graphics? NOPE. It’s not even because of the actual story! In my humble opinion, it’s because of the fact that Marvel Universe looked at the whole timeline and integrated the stories with a “big picture.” Where DC has struggled is they have 8 different directors that are on 8 different pages, with 8 different views on the subject. (Think of the dichotomy between Chris Nolan and Bryan Singer). What was the single thing that was consistent between Iron Man 1/2, Captain America, Hulk (all of them, well maybe not the Eric Bana version), and Thor? Easy: The Strategic Homeland Intervention, Enforcement and Logistics Division (SHIELD, we’re working it). While Agent Caulson’s fate is rumored, he was a comic stable throughout all the movies. His goal in the movie was also to remind us what SHIELD was and what they were doing. Albeit, in almost all of the movies, save Iron Man 2 and Thor they played a very small part. That being said, we have Gotham haphazardly mentioned in Superman Returns and Metropolis half heartily mentioned in TDK. With even less linkages between the two seemingly important cities in the DC Mythos. I don’t even want to start with the Coast City/Star City etc from Green Lantern.

I’m betting the Marvel powers that be sat down and actually had a legit vision for the Avengers movie 6 or 7 years ago. For the sake of the argument, let’s say that they didn’t have a strategic plan and that they were just “lucky” that the continuity and re-shoots or secret Easter eggs, end credit scenes just worked. Well good for them! What did DC do? Sinestro putting on the yellow ring? Ehhh…What was there in TDK? (Exception: the playing card at the end of Batman Begins); more rumors about a JLA movie when they couldn’t even get more than one franchise to take off, and Warner Brothers actually considering making a movie where the JLA characters are NOT the characters we’ve seen before. Even that has it’s failures what happened to Katie Holmes? Oh yea she changes to Maggie Gyllenhal (no one noticed…..right). The Marvel powers that be KNEW that they would need to invest to make these movies and that they would have to have somewhat continuity to be successful. The DC powers that be were so stressed to get a movie out that they sacrificed what I believe to be MILLIONS if not BILLIONS of dollars to push a movie out. So tell me compare just the CAST of the Avengers (each having had their own movie already or cameos in their own movies, except Hawkeye) versus Christian Bale’s Batman and Henry Cavil’s Superman, Ryan Reynolds’ Green Lantern, and a failed Wonder Woman pilot with a no name playing the Amazon? I don’t think so.

Marvel Success/DC Failures

Let’s look at the X-Men Franchise, one could argue that they butchered the story line because, Professor X was made out to be a wimp, Jean Grey/Phoenix killed Scott (Cyclops), Sabertooth had two different iterations and neither really made sense or were in cannon, the latter of which more closely touched the story but just barely. Then there was the “prequel” X-Men first class because they realized that they sacrificed plot for story. What I mean by that, is we got so worked up about Jean Grey and everyone dying etc that we were left with Magento pushing a chess piece, professor x waking up and most of the X-Men crew dead. Let’s be honest, where were they supposed to take the movie? So we jump back to the prequel was good, but what’s next? And an origin film of Wolverine, which again had endless possibilities to have a sequel, but Hugh Jackman went on to teach a robot how to box and find his long lost son, instead of traveling to Japan and becoming more of badass.

Fantastic Four, a truly underutilized franchise that could’ve been SO SO much more. The first one was good at setting up the characters and had a pretty good plot and kept with the cannon right? (for the record I love Julian McMahon as Dr. Von Doom). The second one fell short! WAY SHORT! Silver Surfer, who I hope based on the rumor mill might make an upcoming appearance, was just not the center of the movie as he should’ve been. He was second tier to Dr. Doom trying to steal his board and the Fantastic Four coming to terms with them being “heroes”. Ok, fine it moves the movie along, but if you’re going to bring in Silver Surfer make more a mention of Galactus, rather than a giant cloud and saying “he’s coming” and then SORT OF mentioning him or showing him in the final moments.

That brings me to Daredevil. A great movie in my opinion; I liked Ben Affleck as the man with no fear. Although Kingpin mysteriously changed races and Elektra was able to kick DD’s butt, but get hers handed to her. Such is life. I didn’t really think there was much wrong other than the above, it would’ve fit perfectly in for tie in and there wasn’t really a needed sequel or there didn’t need to be one. Why they are rebooting, I’ll never know. Maybe and just maybe it was a little campy, but all in all I thought it was a pretty good adaption of Daredevil to screen.

I want to tie the next two together League of Extraordinary Gentlemen and Watchmen, because just like their paper versions they stand alone. Do I think they are particularly good? NO. Do I own both? Yes. Have I watched both? Absolutely. I don’t really want to talk too much on them because they wouldn’t really fit into tie ins like the other movies did/do/does, but you get my point. They were stand alone, plus watchmen had the first actually boobie shot/actual sex scene of ANY comicbook movie. Think about it.

This brings me to my last point on Marvel; Spiderman, three different iterations of the character, by the same actor and following the same mythos. But I think most would agree that it declined dramatically from being the amazing Spiderman fighting in a wrestling ring to fighting himself as an EMO Spiderman who wanted cookies with milk. Perhaps the first two iterations would have been a great tie for X-men/Wolverine/Fantastic Four/Hulk but the third although Venom was awesome and would’ve loved to see Carnage I don’t really see a great connection but it left the opportunity for a tie in, within the Marvel universe.

Captain America, god bless him, I’m a veteran so anything doing with America is pretty much AWESOME. For the record, the cameos by big time actors in this movie was PERFECT. A lot like Star Trek: TNG having big time actors come on for one episode. Again, the directors and writers did it brilliantly, because they worked in SHIELD into the equation, KNOWING what was coming. They even ended brilliantly making SURE there was a way that they could tie in the Avengers movie. Which they did excellently, in my humble opinion.

Thor, was all around SHIELD and really laid the foundation for the setup of the Avengers. I don’t think that’s a SPOILER but if it is, I’m sorry. I really like the way they did the entire Thor plot. Although Thor making easy work of the Rock Monsters (I forgot the name) was rather silly. But Loki’s trickery was quite the scandal! Nonetheless, you can see a theme here……get there……..

So I went through as many movies as I could off the top of my head, as I’m writing this fairly quickly to pass some time, but again what is the common denominator? That all of the Marvel Movies at one point could have had or left room for a linkage to another one, and one if I’m not mistaken we will see in the upcoming years, as long as the epic comic movie bubble doesn’t burst, but I doubt we will as our nation and our world is still struggling to find itself and as a people we need something greater than ourselves to believe in.

Now let’s look at Superman Returns, Batman Begins, TDK, and Green Lantern, as it relates to doing something similar to what Paramount is doing with the Avengers. I’ll even for the purposes of this essay take into account the Man of Steel which has “yet” to be released. Let me ask you a real question, do you think just Christian Bale’s Batman alone could pair up or “meet” any of the current personifications of our heroes? He barely talks to commissioner Gordon which works for the movie but would FAIL in a joint movie. Even Henry Cavil and Christian Bale talking is awkward, let alone them being their most trust allies and friends. The director of the Avengers recently said in an interview “The DC Universe characters are larger than life and very difficult to adapt to the movie screen and be believable, whereas the Marvel Universe heroes are more down to earth and easier to adapt to the silver screen”

Ok so somewhere in my mindless diatribe I hope I made my point, while I think that the stories and timeline of the DC universe is 10 million times more interesting and more appealing to me than the Marvel universe, save the core infinity gauntlet story line, I don’t foresee even the Man of Steel beating any of the Marvel Universe stories that get adapted to the big screen. I could be wrong and hopefully I am, but given the continuity, I don’t see it happening.

At the end of the day, I am HAPPY for Joss Whedon and team, and I’m willing to bet that they did a superstar job and this movie really will be EPIC and probably set the stage for the summer, and I’ll be honest I don’t think TDKR will come close, now don’t get me wrong TDKR will be fan-frickin-tastic but will it be as “epic” as Avengers….I doubt it….

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EdgyOutsider
EdgyOutsider - 4/17/2012, 4:56 PM
I loved the article and I agree with most of it. Some of your opinions are different than mine, the biggest being you're a DC man and I'm Marvel. But still you made a great article with a good subject, got to the point and did it without trashing Marvel and stayed unbaised unlike most people (I use to have that problem.) Like I said, Great write up.
Ghostt
Ghostt - 4/17/2012, 5:26 PM
good writing and good article. If I wasn't high I probably would have even understood it.

I love the DC vs. Marvel competition. It's damn healthy for CBMs in general. Both companies are badass and I am glad they figured out how to make good movies. I'm stoked for CBMs right now, they all look damn good..so does that pic @IM53
jj2g
jj2g - 4/17/2012, 5:33 PM
i hope you know x-men, spiderman, FF, daredevil, ghost rider dont belong to marvel in the movie sense because two respective companies fox and sony make the final call and produced those movies before marvel decided to do their own. BEFORE ANY THING ELSE IS SAID, LOOK AT MY BUDDY ICON, I LOVE MARVEL AND DC JUST THE SAME. I LEAN MORE TO DC B/C I STARTED THERE FIRST, BUT I NEVER TEAR EITHER SIDE DOWN OR DISS THE OTHER. So I also want to thank you for not being an ass like some others would be and not being biast. Sidenote: Batman man is the best superhero ever in my opinion and he is my favorite, but I agree Avengers is better because they are more faithful to the comics rather than Nolan making him super realistic, which I dislike for the sake of batman being fantastical for JLA (who IMO are better than the avengers for the sake of powers and strength). These are how opinions should be PEOPLE not judging one side just b/c you love the other. Actually support your arguement with a reason.
TheMyth
TheMyth - 4/17/2012, 8:08 PM
Nice article! I agree with a lot of it. I feel another reason Marvel is so successful is that the characters or more realistic. I mean that in the sense that they feel like people you know, they live and defend existing cities, and they deal with certain things (especially moral issues) in a more realistic way. Most of all, they're people first and heroes/villains second. DC is not so grounded, it's more fantastic and outrageous(in good and bad ways), they defend fictional cities, and they deal with complex issues with with high morality which is quite unrealistic. Some love DC for this approach and likewise some Marvel for theirs. When translating to the masses however, the more relatable is the way to go. Nolan proved this for DC characters with the Batman films. They need more grounding for film translation. I always enjoy DC most when they take things more seriously and social issues are resolved realistically rather than by some lofty moral high-ground.

Ghostt, It can be healthy when it inspires people to learn more, but as in any online forum, it quickly debases. Faceless anonymity makes folks brave, especially cowards.
Ghostt
Ghostt - 4/17/2012, 8:14 PM
@EsseXFactor

totally.

gamecreatorjj
gamecreatorjj - 4/17/2012, 8:52 PM
well of course the MCU is going to make more, they have like 2 movies a year, all big name

since 2008, we have had;ironman, hulk, ironman 2, thor, and cap, soon avengers
DC has given us: The Dark Knight, Green Lantern and The Dark Knight rises, even though TDK is hugely popular, it can't stand money making ground to 5 movies, and GL didn't help in the least bit, but i go with quality over quanity, and DC has gotten 4/5 movies since 2000, Marvel has had 2/5 in 4 years, Thor was not a well made movie

never the less, yes Marvel will make more money, but DC will put out better product
Coloso
Coloso - 4/17/2012, 10:43 PM
@gamecreatorjj putting your personal feelings aside Thor did extremely well. All of Marvel's films have done well hence why we are getting the Avengers movie.

Out of all of MCU films, the incredible hulk was the only one that underperfomed at the box office, and even then it was received well by those who watched it.

So no matter how many times the troll's claim that only Ironman or Cap or Thor were good the truth is they all did well with the movie going audience. Marvel Studios knows how to make movies and they have a vision. Hate them all you want but you have to respect that they obviously know what they are doing. :D
djohnpi
djohnpi - 4/18/2012, 6:18 AM
WOW DC makes better Quality movies I am sorry outside of BATS what moveies are we talking about cause i didn't see any. I am just asking.
AZSuperman
AZSuperman - 4/18/2012, 8:23 AM
WOW! Thanks everyone for your comments. I didn't think it would start such a great discussion.

So I realize that different studios make these movies but I'm more talking about the strategic plan. My point was that even tho, the execs/writers/directors left avenues open for a linkage. Think about it, they left the FF: Rise of Silver Surfer Ending left Silver Surfer open to much more. AND if you remember cannon you'll know that the infinity guanlet has a major character besides Thanos and Adam Warlock.

I like the thought of DC bringing it back to life and being more realistic, but how can you do that when the JLA team has a Moon Base, and the two leaders of JLA are so cold and callous that they don't even talk to each other. I wish the possibilites were there and maybe the Nolan powers that be have solved that equation and I hope to god that they do/did.

Personally, I watch DC because I want to be taken (if only for a few hours)to a place that is fantastical to escape. Isn't that why we all like this type of fiction?

WAY TOO PERSONAL: I'm adopted and was born outside of the US and became a naturalized US Citizen and didn't know who or where I came from and was raised by two down to earth middle america people, there's another character in the DCU that has that same background, Oh yea! Superman! Now am I saying I'm Superman, NO, but I'm saying it's relatable. That's why I think the more recent MCU movies have been succesful because they are relatable.

Again Team, thanks for the great responses and the warm welcome to CBM. I'm glad I could contribute.
gmoney0505
gmoney0505 - 4/18/2012, 7:05 PM
Relatable has nothing to do with a movie success. It all boils down to story, actors, character development, and the way it looks. If being relateble had anything to do with any movie, people would only like about 1/10 of all movies ever release.

Marvel movies based on their characters suck as Iron Man, X-Men, Spider-Man are great and made money because they have great stories that are told very well, actors that are good in them, and they look great.

DC can make great movies when they can get a person to write great stories for the character. GL didn't do great because the story is not there. It made its budget and that right there is that people were interested in the movie. With a great story with better character development GL could have been a great movie and did well at the box office.

DC characters are not hard to put in a JL movie. If people can watch a JL cartoon and love it, then they can watch a movie about them. As long as the story is good and the actors play the characters well then it will be ok.



Scholes60
Scholes60 - 4/19/2012, 2:47 AM
Good article. I do think the Avengers will be the biggest Marvel super hero movie yet! Does this then mean that it's all downhill for Marvel after that? With IM3, Thor2, and Captain America 2 (and who knows maybe Dr Strange?) to follow. No - I think Marbel are going to be okay for some time to come!

As an Aussie sci-fi writer: http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/alien-hunter-star-trooper-david-k-scholes/1109436721 I’ve written a solid collection of Marvel (espec Thor) fan fiction, why not check it out? http://www.fanfiction.net/u/1276881/David_Scholes

Coldblood6
Coldblood6 - 4/21/2012, 3:16 PM
Nice article.

Oh and gmoney0505, gl did not make back it's budget back. Only half the WW gross goes back to the studio.
bk9net
bk9net - 4/28/2012, 5:38 AM
Good article, but let's face it: Marvel knows how to make not only individual superhero movies, but superhero movie franchises. They've done it with Spider-Man, X-Men, Iron Man and are now doing it with The Avengers, continuing on with more Thor and Captain America movies.

Plus most of these movies have been good, if not great.

DC/Warner, on the other hand, is an utter failure. "Superman Returns" and "Green Lantern", featuring cornerstone DC characters - has anyone heard buzz about sequels? No, because they effectively failed. Nolan's Batman series has been successful, yes, and "Dark Knight" wildly so, but if Heath Ledger had lived, would as many people have flocked to it? We'll never know.

But beyond those movies, what do we have from DC in the last several years as compared to Marvel? Jonah Hex, The Losers and Catwoman? Steel, starring Shaq?

I rest my case.

DC Entertainment had a chance to follow in Marvel's footsteps by building towards a JLA movie. They blew it and now have to sit back while the Marvel Movie Machine moves on, and spectacularly so.

I say all of this regrettably, because I am a long-time fan of DC (esp. Superman). But right now, and for the foreseeable future: Make Mine Marvel.
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