Plot Holes: What They Are, When They Occur, and Why We've Been Wrong About Them All Along

Plot Holes: What They Are, When They Occur, and Why We've Been Wrong About Them All Along

After reading one too many "Let's nitpick and list as many 'plot holes' as we can possibly find!" editorials (and countless comments as well) about popular movies on this site, SauronsBANE1 goes in-depth and gives reasons as to why we've been throwing around the term 'plot holes' without really knowing what it means...

Editorial Opinion
By SauronsBANE - Jul 01, 2013 09:07 AM EST
Filed Under: Other

Plot holes.

Two words that can separate good movies from bad. That change opinions over whether potentially great movies were simply just good or even below average. The Dark Knight Trilogy, the Avengers, Skyfall, Prometheus, and most recently Man of Steel have all fallen victim to nitpicking fans that label these blockbusters as being riddled with plot holes.

But what exactly qualifies as a plot hole?

Strictly speaking, a plot hole should be defined as when something takes place, either a plot-related or a character action, that causes a crucial inconsistency that goes against what's been presented to us in the movie beforehand.

...but maybe it'd be easier to go through what ISN'T a plot hole first.



1) The most obvious one is the age-old debate: "In the Lord of the Rings, why didn't they just fly the eagles to Mordor?" Ignoring the fact that there actually are solid explanations for this, the biggest one is simply that there would be no movie if they did that. And that does not make it a plot hole.

Contrary to popular belief, movies aren't supposed to make perfect logical sense in the real world, no matter how "realistic" some movies are made out to be. The very nature of movies is that they are unreality. Movies are there to entertain us. To tell a story with comedy, drama, conflict, and ultimately a satisfying resolution. You can pick apart almost any movie and find something that could've been done differently that would negate the entire premise, and unfortunately there are some people love doing that. But again, that's not what movies are about.

Take Looper for example. For argument's sake, rather than having the future mob drop their intended targets back in time right in front of Loopers to eliminate them, couldn't they have dropped them in the middle of the ocean? Or in a volcano? Or any of a million other places where it'd be virtually guaranteed that they would be killed? That would ensure that Joseph Gordon Levitt's character wouldn't have a chance to screw up killing his future self, and everything that happened in the movie wouldn't ever happen. Everything would go back to normal. But that's missing the point of the entire movie. We the audience are watching precisely because we want to see something take place that's out of the ordinary in the world the movie takes place in. To see characters make mistakes, struggle to find a solution, and leave us with a sense that something was actually accomplished.

The Looper and Lord of the Rings 'solutions' are inherently flawed, solely because all the conflict in the movies would never take place. Without conflict, you wouldn't have an interesting story. Without an engaging story, you wouldn't have a movie in the first place. So logically speaking, plot holes can't and shouldn't be grouped together with these flawed show-stopping examples.



2) Implausible or extreme coincidences in movies don't make it a plot hole, either. Going back to why we watch movies in the first place, it's partly so that we are presented with an unusual or otherwise interesting story that (probably) wouldn't happen to us in real life. Whether these unlikely things happen to further the plot or just to give us drama in the most impactful way possible, it can't be a plot hole as long as it stays consistent with the rest of the movie and the world it takes place in.

One popular example of this would be many of the events that take place in The Dark Knight. The Joker is presented to be always several steps ahead of our heroes, having taken contingencies on almost every possible event that could happen. Captured by the police? Good thing he was prepared to bomb the MCU and take Lau. Helicopter flying at almost street-level guarding the entourage escorting Harvey Dent? Cue the henchman with the trip wire in the perfect position to take it down. And on and on it goes.

Sure, it's ridiculously lucky that things keep happening in such a way that the Joker keeps on coming out on top until the very end. But when you think about it, it just doesn't matter. The purpose of his character is that despite all his denials of having a plan, he has a frighteningly efficient and well thought out goal to descend Gotham into chaos. And nothing that he does goes against anything that's been established in that movie.

3) As a general rule, things that don't make much sense AFTER having seen the movie and only after putting a lot of thought into it shouldn't qualify as a plot hole either. I say this very carefully, because the caveat is that if the director and writers are able to suck you into a movie so much that you find yourself completely unable to catch minor logic gaps during the first few viewings, then they've done their job. Movies that are this engrossing are sure signs of a pretty great film because, one more time, movies aren't meant to be completely, 100% logical or foolproof.

The sequence with Jim Gordon taking the bullet for the mayor, faking his death, and then secretly leading the convoy to bait the Joker into attacking doesn't make much sense when you think about it. What exactly was the purpose of faking his death? Doing so to avoid risking his family's safety is a pretty vague answer. Who was even in on that plan? Harvey seems surprised to see Gordon alive, but Batman must have known because he obviously crashed on purpose to give Gordon the opportunity to capture the Joker. But then why did they show Batman in the shadows, seemingly mourning when the cops give Barbara Gordon the news about her husband? When would Gordon have had the time to show Batman that he was still alive and then fill him in on what he had planned?

However, even this admittedly convoluted chain of events isn't a plot hole. Things were presented to us in such a way to sell us on a singular notion at that point of the story: Gordon was dead, and Batman has to take down the Joker when he attacks the convoy. Everything that is shown has a purpose - to feed into this notion so that we get the most out of the action sequence. The bewilderment we feel when Batman chooses not to hit the Joker with the Batpod and crashes. The complete surprise when a random cop gains the upperhand on the Joker and is revealed to be Gordon. Rather than making much sense in a strictly logical way, Christopher Nolan rightly chose to create sequences that played on our expectations. Which is why most of these little irregularities didn't blatantly stick out to most people walking out of showings of the Dark Knight for the first time. The telltale mark of a great movie.



Another movie that jumps to mind is Jurassic Park. It can be argued that director Stephen Spielberg's MO is to sacrifice common sense and logic to maximize the emotional and dramatic impact of the moment. This is nowhere more apparent than the infamous T-Rex scenes. Spielberg disregards logic, physics, and geography not once but twice. In the first scene, with the rain pouring down and the group's 2 cars stuck on the track in front of the T-Rex paddock...it makes no sense that they're stuck there in the first place. The jeeps run on a single track throughout the tour, and they'd already been to that paddock earlier in the movie. Did they circle around the entire park and conveniently get stuck right by the T-Rex? And then after it eats the goat and breaks through the fence, 10 minutes later that exact same piece of land somehow turns into a 100 foot high cliff that the T-Rex can push the car off of.

And again in the climactic finale in the Visitor's Center, the survivors are surrounded by raptors with no way out. Suddenly the very same T-Rex appears out of nowhere to save the day. No one heard it coming, no one saw it coming, and yet this and the previously discussed scene are two of the most memorable scenes in the film. Why? Because it told logic and sense: "To hell with 'em!" It catered specifically to what we were hoping for, emotionally. Spielberg said it himself: if they didn't bring back the T-Rex to be the hero of the day, audiences would've rioted.

20 years ago, did some people scratch their heads and wonder how an acclaimed director could make two such blatant 'mistakes'? Probably, but it's more than forgivable because of the emotional high, the raw tension and drama it gave us and allowed us to experience. And, once again, that's what watching movies is all about.

4) This point seems obvious, but things that take place off screen, or are otherwise unexplained, are not plot holes. (Unexplained plot points and loose ends certainly have the potential to be, but only if they have severe ramifications on the rest of the plot.)

To use the Dark Knight again as an example, the scene where Joker crashes Dent's fundraiser and throws Rachel out the window, forcing Batman to come to her rescue, leaves no explanation for what the Joker and his henchman did with a penthouse full of Gotham's richest and most influential patrons. The main reason this isn't a plot hole is that there are numerous explanations for what the Joker could have done next. Perhaps he decided those people didn't figure into his plans, so he simply left. That seems absurd, but the Joker is a psychopath after all. In a way, it makes the most sense that he would do something as irrational and illogical as leaving the people alone.



In the sequel, it is left to our imaginations as to how Bruce Wayne traveled halfway across the world after escaping Bane's prison and found his way into a Gotham City on lock-down. Many fans chalk this up as a glaring plot hole, and perhaps in an ordinary action movie it would be. But based on our information of the character to this point, it can't be a plot hole.

From Batman Begins, we know that young Bruce stowed away on a freight ship after his humbling encounter with Carmine Falcone and traveled the world, with no passport and no money, in order to fully understand the criminal mind. We already know that Bruce has a talent for stealth. To state the obvious, Bruce has done things like this before. The only difference in The Dark Knight Rises is that rather than showing it or alluding to it, it happened completely off screen. Putting these facts together, it's no far leap that Bruce was able to sneak into Gotham in the given timeframe (It's obvious a significant amount of time has passed. Batman is defeated and thrown into Bane's prison in the summer/fall after their first fight, and when he comes back there's snow on the ground).

Most recently, in Man of Steel, Lois Lane finds out that the Kryptonian ship crashed in the Arctic ice is at least 18,000 years old. The movie doesn't concentrate on where it comes from, how it crashed there, why Kal-El's suit is located there...because none of that really matters.

Whatever the answers to these questions are, it wouldn't affect the rest of the plot in any way. It was purposefully left ambiguous by the filmmakers in order to devote time to more important parts of the story. Perhaps it will be expanded upon in a future sequel, perhaps not, but this doesn't make it a plot hole.

And as I understand it, a prequel tie-in released shortly before the movie came out even explained the origins of that ship while featuring a cameo from another DC hero...making this even more of a moot point. Bottom line, seemingly unexplained plot points do not always make plot holes.

So if all of these things aren't plot holes, what are?

For comparison, let's look at a few movies with legitimate plot holes.



1) Pirates of the Caribbean: Dead Man's Chest. In a movie with Disney-fied pirates, mystical and magical creatures, and high-flying stunts, only story-related issues have much of a chance of being called a plot hole.

One such gripe occurs at the very end of the movie. In the first movie, the character of Elizabeth Swann was written as a caring, kind-hearted, damsel in distress who slowly transforms into a tough pirate capable of taking care of herself by the events of this movie. A perfectly normal and necessary character progression that takes an abrupt turn when she decides to make out with Jack Sparrow to trick him into being chained to the doomed ship so the rest of the group has a chance to escape the Kraken.

Perhaps this is more of a personal opinion, but this goes against everything Keira Knightley's character had been portrayed to be at this point, for the sake of a plot twist that ends with Sparrow's death as well as tension with Will Turner that is able to last well into the next film as well. When a character makes such a departure from how they've previously been portrayed, it can theoretically still work. But in this case, the fault lies with the poor writing. This was so out of character, based on what we knew about her to that point, that it's extremely tough to believe that she'd actually do something like that. This inconsistency is more than enough to qualify this is as a plot hole.

2) The Avengers. Although it doesn't concern itself with being grounded in reality (making it easier to forgive things like Black Widow jumping onto a fast-moving Chitauri 'sled' and somehow not ripping her arm out of the socket), a few plot points are much harder to overlook.

For example, the fight in the forest between Thor, Iron Man, and Captain America. Loki had just been captured and taken by Thor before Iron Man interrupted and inexplicably focused more on fighting Thor than dealing with re-capturing the supervillain. On top of that, Loki just idly sits around and watches the entire fight take place rather than even pretending to escape.

Obviously his plan all along was to be caught, and the heroes even suspect something is suspicious. But to make it so blatantly obvious and the only response the Avengers have is a vague comment about it being "too easy" is a grievous oversight big enough to be called a plot hole.

3) The Matrix. Now, with such a sci-fi heavy story, it's important to take note of the 'rules' of the world it takes place in and go off that.

When it's first revealed that Cypher is a traitor to the main characters, we are shown that he is plugged into the Matrix having a nice fine dinner with Agent Smith. This is all well and good, but it's already been established that an operator (such as Tank) needs to be present in order to manually plug someone into the Matrix. Cypher chooses a time when everyone else is sleeping so that he can rendezvous with Smith and go over the terms for turning over Morpheus, so who exactly plugged him in?

It's fair to assume that any attempts at tricking someone into plugging him in at such an hour would immediately raise suspicions, and he obviously didn't force or threaten anyone because he takes part in rescuing Morpheus soon after this and no one raises any concerns. This is an instance where there may be a few possible answers, but none really work well at all. Thus creating a plot hole.


Hopefully these examples will put to rest the annoying tendency of misusing the phrase "plot holes" in some people's efforts to prove one movie or studio as a whole is better than another. Analyzing movies is fun, but nitpicking in desperate attempts to appear smarter than the general movie-going public is childish. Agree or disagree with my points? Sound off below!


** While writing this, I came across an extremely interesting article by a passionate and knowledgeable movie analyst known as the Film Crit Hulk. His strange pen name fits his equally unusual writing style, but his articles are well-written and incredibly thought provoking, for those curious. I have no other connection to him other than the fact it was a huge influence on me writing this article. Well worth a look!

http://badassdigest.com/2012/10/30/film-crit-hulk-smash-hulk-vs.-plot-holes-and-movie-logic/

and for the rest of his articles:

http://filmcrithulk.wordpress.com/
THE FRANCHISE: Trailer For Max Series Starring Daniel Brühl Reveals Chaos Inside World Of Superhero Filmmaking
Related:

THE FRANCHISE: Trailer For Max Series Starring Daniel Brühl Reveals Chaos Inside World Of Superhero Filmmaking

REAGAN Interview: Jon Voight On His Approach To Playing A KGB Agent And Pandemic Challenges (Exclusive)
Recommended For You:

REAGAN Interview: Jon Voight On His Approach To Playing A KGB Agent And Pandemic Challenges (Exclusive)

DISCLAIMER: ComicBookMovie.com is protected under the DMCA (Digital Millenium Copyright Act) and... [MORE]

ComicBookMovie.com, and/or the user who contributed this post, may earn commissions or revenue through clicks or purchases made through any third-party links contained within the content above.

1 2 3
WYLEEJAY
WYLEEJAY - 7/1/2013, 10:29 AM
This makes no sense. You said yourself, if there's reasoning behind it, and it develops the story, its not a plot hole. So..........since you also said yourself that Loki wanted to get caught, in fact its well known that he did, how is that a plot hole? They were suspicious of him just as we the audience were also. Usually characters in movies are oblivious to the facts that the audience is aware of. I'm assuming its just your personal opinion that it would of worked better if they were oblivious.

Now I agree with you on almost all the other ones. Especially Jurassic Park. Even when I was a kid, I thought, how did the T Rex get in there without out anyone seeing it. Worse than that though, was the second film. How did his daughter know, that jumping up onto the pole and starting to do her gymnastics, would result in her kicking the Raptor out the window! It hadn't even jumped up there yet.
dirtydanwojo
dirtydanwojo - 7/1/2013, 10:41 AM
About the Loki thing - consider the alternative: were they just going to let him back into the world to likely repeat what he did in Germany? No, they figure "Loki doesn't know what kind of prison facilities we have, so we'll put him in the Hulk one."

That's what makes it all the more terrifying when he says "Barton told me everything." He doesn't mean just about Natasha, he means everything. Including pretty much everything related to the Helicarrier, so he's revealing that he already knew which cell they'd likely put him in.

So maybe a lack of judgment on the Avengers' part, but not really a plot hole.
SauronsBANE
SauronsBANE - 7/1/2013, 10:48 AM
@WYLEEJAY I did say that, but suspension of disbelief factors into it too. With the whole Loki thing, are we to believe that he simply waited patiently up on that mountain until those three were done fighting? That's an inconsistency in Loki's character that goes against what we know about him to that point. He's a crafty trickster that wouldn't make such an obvious ploy to get caught. In Germany, he at least put up a fight. I could've worded it differently, but it's also the character inconsistency that makes it a plot hole as well, in my opinion at least.

WYLEEJAY
WYLEEJAY - 7/1/2013, 11:43 AM
Yes it was obvious, but not why he did it. At least to them. He was there to hurt them, to destroy them, and most of all to waste time so Dr Selvig could open the portal. Loki had reasoning behind his madness. His entire purpose being there had everything to do with his character. Trickery. He made it seem easy almost on purpose just to mess with their minds further, and it worked. The anxiety turned them on each other. At least, that's what I got from the entire part of the film. I thought it was very much in his character.
OdinsBeard
OdinsBeard - 7/1/2013, 11:49 AM
nice article! im glad someone came along to clear the air. i agree with 99% of the stuff you said.

where i disagree tho is where you say batman planned to crash near the joker so gordon could catch him. i do agree that i would be nice to know who else might have been in on the plan, if the mayor, batman, dent, or any other character we met didn't know gordon was still alive then who did? who carted his body off? none the less, batman did not know gordon was alive. remember the line "did batman save you, daddy?" - "actually this time i saved him." that scene was important to gordon's character development, showing the audience that he was an equal and worthy partner to batman.
DRMidNite
DRMidNite - 7/1/2013, 12:20 PM
VERY nice, man!
Emjeed
Emjeed - 7/1/2013, 12:26 PM
oh.. Jurassic Park 2.. How the [frick] does Jeff Goldblum have a biological black kid? I'm absolutely serious with this question cos I just watched it again last night and it's made pretty clear that she was not adopted or any of that jazz.
DRMidNite
DRMidNite - 7/1/2013, 12:34 PM
@Emjeed: What they left out in the movie, the book explained. Jeff's ex was a black woman, but still, the girl did not look even remotely mixed race.
SauronsBANE
SauronsBANE - 7/1/2013, 12:41 PM
Thanks everyone for the feedback!

@OdinsBeard I completely get what you're saying, that little scene spoke a lot about Gordon's character. But he still could've said "This time, I saved him" even if Batman was in on the plan as well. Either way, Gordon still had to prevent the Joker from killing/capturing Batman, so no matter what he DID save him. I just don't see Batman crashing his Batpod like that by accident, it had to be on purpose in my opinion.
LEVITIKUZ
LEVITIKUZ - 7/1/2013, 12:42 PM
One doesn't question Jeff Goldblum. The man can do the impossible.
WYLEEJAY
WYLEEJAY - 7/1/2013, 12:46 PM
I'm sorry but I couldn't look past the ridiculousness of the entire scene in Jurassic park 2. So their getting attacked by Raprors, that are on the ground. She thinks, hmm, maybe I should start swinging around that pole for no reason, and coincidentally, the Raptor jumps up just in time for her to kick it out the window. Like I said, even as a kid that bothered me. Plot holes don't bother me in general, just ridiculous coincidence that makes no sense. Like in Van Helsing, when Frankenstein falls and starts swinging on that cable, and crashes through the window just in time to save the girl from the vampire chick. He had no control, yet he still landed exactly where he needed to in order to save her. Stupid coincidence. That stuff takes me out of a film.
SauronsBANE
SauronsBANE - 7/1/2013, 12:47 PM
@Levi "Life, uh, uh, umm, uhh, finds a way"
DRMidNite
DRMidNite - 7/1/2013, 1:00 PM
Chaos Theory...LOL
Odin
Odin - 7/1/2013, 1:07 PM
Considering that there was Nazgul flying on dragon and god knows how many orcs with bows and arrows in Mordor, it's no wonder that they didn't just fly there with eagles, especially when the eye of Sauron would've most likely spotted them miles away.
SauronsBANE
SauronsBANE - 7/1/2013, 1:28 PM
@Odin I would've included some of those things in the article but there's just so many explanations for why the Eagles theory wouldn't work. But definitely, I've always thought how stupid it would be, seeing how Sauron and the Nazgul wouldn't just let them fly through
DRMidNite
DRMidNite - 7/1/2013, 1:33 PM
OdinsBeard
OdinsBeard - 7/1/2013, 1:49 PM
suaron@ batman crashing his bike like that was a symbol of the relationship between him and the joker. the joker was challenging bats to "hit" him, resulting in killing him. batman pulls up at the last second because he can't kill the joker, leaving himself vulnerable to defeat. i think you're connecting dots that aren't there. there really is no reason for you to come to the conclusion that batman and gordon were working together at that point other than "it could have happened." - you say batman "obviously" crashed on purpose. i'm willing to concede if i am wrong but i don't see where it is obvious, in fact it would be the opposite of obvious.

not hatin' just debatin'! - as i said, very solid article. im glad you brought up the global travel issue from tdkr. its like ppl never even saw begins.
MrReese
MrReese - 7/1/2013, 2:34 PM
Great freakin article bud!
Kjo0212
Kjo0212 - 7/1/2013, 2:55 PM
I love how as soo as they are done reading if it went against their beloved movie they find a way to argue for it.... Great write up and I love the specifics!
SauronsBANE
SauronsBANE - 7/1/2013, 3:04 PM
Much appreciated, MrReese!

@OdinsBeard, I agree, I believe the Joker was, as you said, challenging Batman to go against his code and kill him. Personally I think Batman was in on the plan with Gordon because of how the batpod crash was portrayed. Even the Joker was unimpressed by how 'lame' and anticlimactic it was. Batman knows how to drive it, he could've simply turned away and remained on the bike. Instead it seems like he staged a big, theatrical crash that results in him being 'knocked out' so the Joker could finish him off. I find it hard to believe Batman actually got knocked out by that crash either. I'm sure this part is up for debate, and maybe I shouldn't have said it was obvious, but to me it seemed like Batman crashed on purpose. If he did it on purpose, then it would suggest he's in on the plan as well. Just my opinion though!
WYLEEJAY
WYLEEJAY - 7/1/2013, 3:10 PM
No I think a plot hole from Avengers would be the Chitari dropping dead after their ship blowing up. It was never even hinted at that they were being controlled by someone or something else. Nothing made them feel connected. It was just a convenient plot device to get rid of the aliens on earth. Thats the only problem I have with Avengers. Still my favorite CBM though.
SauronsBANE
SauronsBANE - 7/1/2013, 3:10 PM
@ VIRILEMAN I could say the same about you. Obviously with a Spiderman avatar, you like Marvel and naturally despise DC. So even though I listed ONE little plot hole in Avengers (while even defending it right before! I said how forgivable it was for Black Widow to defy physics and not get her arm ripped out of her socket), it makes sense that you'd overreact and claim that I'm "jumping all over" the plot holes in Avengers.

Yes I enjoyed the Dark Knight trilogy, but I liked the Avengers too. Yours is such a typical comment on this site, quick to blindly defend whichever movie/studio you think is untouchable. And I'm glad you saw this article, because that's exactly the type of fan I was writing about.
SauronsBANE
SauronsBANE - 7/1/2013, 3:16 PM
@WYLEEJAY As much as I agree with you that I didn't like that part from the Avengers as well, I find it hard to call that a plot hole. Was it ridiculously convenient? Yes. But it didn't really go against anything that was stated about the Chitauri earlier in the movie. It just added another element to them that we didn't know before. It's a technicality, but still I wouldn't call that a plot hole. It was just laziness on the part of the writers.
unknownfacts
unknownfacts - 7/1/2013, 3:55 PM
Most modern movies have more plot conveniences then plot holes nowadays.Great write up either way though.
NovaCorpsFan
NovaCorpsFan - 7/1/2013, 4:09 PM
Where are the memes goddamnit! Oh and Levi, did you clean up after that Hellboy 3 article?
MrCBM56
MrCBM56 - 7/1/2013, 4:36 PM
I'm sorry but its obvious you were trying to attack Marvel. You wrote when Batman saved Rachael there are different types of scenarios that Joker could've done. The most obvious is he just left, but was that acknowledge once? No. So therefore, that is a plot hole.


But then you say it's a hard to believe that Loki just waited while thor and iron man fought. Well first of all, where would Loki go? He is in the middle of the woods on top of a mountain. Not many places to escape to. And second of all, don't forget Black Widow was in the jet. She could've easily been observing Loki in the air. But again, since it wasnt acknowledged its a plot hole.

But the avengers one is so much easier to explain than the dark knight one. The dark knight one has a bigger plot hole, its almost a fact.
Lhornbk
Lhornbk - 7/1/2013, 4:50 PM
@Virileman, you're so obviously biased that it's kind of pathetic. He didn't attack Avengers, just talked about plot holes in general. And he's right, most "plot holes" are not really plot holes. As for the Chitauri all dying when the bomb went off, I think Whedon got that from the Phantom Menace, when the control ship is destroyed and all the battle droids turn off. (Seriously, watch both and tell me they don't look similar.) That made sense for those giant robot sky whale things (I have no idea what their name was), but I was under the impression that the Chitauri were living creatures.

As for Jurassic Park 2, it is entirely plausible for a white man & black woman to have a black daughter. I had a white girlfriend once who had a daughter whose father was black. I guarantee you she looked black, not mixed.
Emjeed
Emjeed - 7/1/2013, 5:07 PM
@DrMidNite Thanks for the info

CPBuff22
CPBuff22 - 7/1/2013, 6:38 PM
So that means when we are told that Superman is in his 30s and a spaceship we are told crashed to earth 18,000 years ago contains his suit is a plot hole. Also remember they had done away with natural births and the birth of superman was an unexpected miracle meaning a suit couldn't have been planned for him. They also mention earlier in the movie that they had lost contact with all their outposts on other planets meaning they couldn't have sent plans to this ship to make the suit and didn't honestly know if this ship existed.. This makes the way Superman found his suit in MOS a huge plot hole by the definitions of this article.
SauronsBANE
SauronsBANE - 7/1/2013, 8:43 PM
@ MrCBM56 I don't understand why the mere fact of acknowledging the Joker leaving Bruce's penthouse would suddenly change it from being a glaring plot hole to completely okay. Sometimes, you just have to connect the dots yourself without the movie explaining every little thing to the audience.

As for Loki, you're asking me where the powerful demi-god, proven to be able to teleport at will in both Avengers and especially in the Thor movie, would go? Short answer: anywhere but stay on top of a mountain. It boggles the mind that people are trying to defend this.

Lastly, I love how you're also accusing me of "trying to attack Marvel." If you wanted to say I was trying too hard to defend the Dark Knight trilogy, at least you have some evidence to back that up. But I say ONE MINOR THING about the Avengers (and again, right after I even defended it) and suddenly I'm attacking Marvel. I mean, come on. Stop blindly defending your favorite movie/studio and think rationally
SauronsBANE
SauronsBANE - 7/1/2013, 8:59 PM
@CPBuff22, The way I choose to look at that is: yes, the circumstances surrounding that ship and his suit being there is very convoluted and maybe even contradictory. But there's just so many unknowns involved with it, and I get the feeling that the filmmakers purposely left it ambiguous. For whatever reason (time constraints, plot point for a sequel, etc). If they took the time to explain it during the movie, it would've come across as unnecessarily expository. Way too much dialogue and too much time taken up trying to explain it. And with all that said, there's also a prequel comic/novel that semi-explains the presence of that ship as well. So like I said in the article, it's pretty much a moot point.
WYLEEJAY
WYLEEJAY - 7/1/2013, 10:35 PM
Actually.......he doesn't teleport in the movies. He casts illusions. Watch it again. Hes always there you just don't know what one is him. He can turn invisible apparently too, demonstrated at the end of Thor. He had to be invisible to get right behind Coulson too.
SauronsBANE
SauronsBANE - 7/1/2013, 11:00 PM
It's true he casts illusions, but that's not what I was referring to. In Thor, Loki visits Thor after he is captured by SHIELD. When Coulson walks out of the room after interrogating Thor, Loki somehow appears out of nowhere, chats with Thor, and vanishes again right when Coulson comes back. Unless he can walk through walls, seems like a somewhat limited form of teleportation to me.

Also, when Coulson is killed, you can distinctly see one of Loki's illusions winking out of existence just when he stabs Coulson. So in that instance, he isn't invisible, he's simply using his illusions trick again.
WYLEEJAY
WYLEEJAY - 7/2/2013, 12:03 AM
Who ever said Loki was actually in the room? This is one of those things that could go forever. Think about this, if he could teleport, why wait for Barton to show up. He could of teleported out of the cell. He had to wait for someone to open it. Loki in the comics is a lot more powerful. One of the most powerful sorcerers, but the Loki in film has only demonstrated Illusion and Conjuring. His armor if you recall.
TheYoungMan
TheYoungMan - 7/2/2013, 1:27 AM
@Virleman

"So basically this entire article is a pissed off fanboy sick of hearing how horrible his third Batman movie was."

?

TDKR is one of the most positively-received comic book movies of all time. What are you even talking about?
SauronsBANE
SauronsBANE - 7/2/2013, 2:05 AM
This really could go on forever, but this is fascinating to me. I'm not sure why Loki wouldn't be in the room with Thor, or how he could provide the illusion that he was in there if he really wasn't (whenever he did the illusion trick, he had to be right there in the immediate area). Plus, right after he leaves Thor he's shown outside trying to pick up mjolnir, suggesting that he simply teleported there after seeing Thor.

The reason he stayed in the cell was so he could trick Thor into being stuck in it. I'm sure he could've used his teleportation skills in other instances if he wanted to, but he always has a goal in mind. But I get the feeling we'll just have to agree to disagree on this
1 2 3
View Recorder