EDITORIAL: It's Time For The STAR WARS: THE LAST JEDI Bickering . . . To End

EDITORIAL: It's Time For The STAR WARS: THE LAST JEDI Bickering . . . To End

We are living in a world where those who disagree with us are considered the enemy. Where strangers feel they can decide whether or not we are “true” fans. What can we do to fix this?

Editorial Opinion
By AtomicArtist - Jan 23, 2018 06:01 PM EST
Filed Under: Star Wars
In the weeks leading up to the release of The Last Jedi, Star Wars fans were united in excitement. The second movie in the newest Star Wars trilogy was coming soon. The trailers looked really good, and there was word from those involved that this was going to be right up there with The Empire Strikes Back on our lists of favorite Star Wars movies.

Then the movie hit theaters . . .

Never has a Star Wars movie been so polarizing. While a large number of fans don't like the Prequels, at least with those movies there are plenty of “middle of the road” fans who don't love them but don't hate them either. With The Last Jedi, it seems the vast majority of fans either completely love or hate the movie. The middle ground isn't there, or possibly their voices are being drowned out by the other two larger more vocal groups.

It is perfectly fine to hate The Last Jedi. It is also perfectly fine to love The Last Jedi. Why we as fans can't accept that we won't all have the same opinion, and can't respect those who have differing opinions is disappointing. Any fandom that has been around for 40+ years is bound to have drawn in people from all different walks of life. Some have been fans since 1977, others were first introduced to Star Wars through the Special Editions, the Prequels, or even the most recent movies. With that wide a variety of people, differing opinions are bound to happen.

A core problem with the constant back and forth arguing between those for and against The Last Jedi has been the use of the term “true fan”. Both sides have been equally guilty. Telling someone they aren't a true fan if they like/dislike The Last Jedi is ridiculous. None of us have the right to tell anyone else they aren't a “true” fan of something. I don't know of anyone who likes 100% of the Star Wars material put out over the past four decades. Who decides what makes a “true fan”? Do we include the Star Wars: Holiday Special and the two Ewok movies in the list of things you are required to enjoy in order to get your “true fan” membership card?

We all need to take a step back. While Star Wars is a major love for many of us, we need to set boundaries on how far that passion goes. Trying to make yourself feel superior to another fan who has a differing opinion to you does nothing to further constructive discussion or work towards finding a common ground.

Being a fan of Star Wars isn't a competition. Being a fan of Star Wars means being part of a worldwide family. Families don't always get along, but they usually respect each other enough to work out their differences in a constructive manner. If you absolutely cannot find common ground with someone with a differing opinion of The Last Jedi than you then take the high road, agree to disagree, and find a different Star Wars topic you can both share your love for. With over 40 years of Star Wars to talk about you are bound to find plenty of things you can agree on.

Fans are fans. Whether you like all the movies, only some, or even only one, you are still a fan. Respect each other, find common ground where you can, and peacefully agree to disagree when you can't. It's a big universe and there is plenty of room for everyone.
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bkmeijer2
bkmeijer2 - 1/24/2018, 5:51 AM
Agreed. I know the movie might be in a totally different direction than it's predecessor and might have continuity erros, I think it was nice to see a movie doing everything different than expected. Taking a step away from the originals is a step in the good direction (yes, I believe the prequels were refreshing too).

I can make excuses all I want, but as a star wars fan I cannot admit that a Star Wars movie can be bad
AtomicArtist
AtomicArtist - 1/24/2018, 10:19 AM
Thank you for your reply.

To be completely honest, I actually was not a fan of the film. There were moments I liked, but overall it was not for me. While I was disappointed by it, I can also see why other people would enjoy it. It doesn't make either of us more right or wrong than the other.

That is exactly the point of my article above. Constantly slinging mud at each other isn't going to get us anywhere. We all have our own opinions, and we need to be better about accepting that.

Yes, people need to be vocal about what they enjoyed or didn't enjoy about the movie. That fan response is how studios learn what fans do and don't want to see. However, those feelings can be stated in a constructive manner without the need to tear each other down in the process.

You enjoyed the movie and I didn't, yet here we are agreeing that we need to be more civil in our discussions and accepting of differing opinions. This is what we need more of.
kakinurmawth
kakinurmawth - 1/24/2018, 2:15 PM
@AtomicArtist - Yessir. I really appreciate this article. This relates to everything, politics, religion etc. This mudslinging comes from the position that you believe you are right and couldn't possibly be mistaken. Humility is what people need to remember.
jph152
jph152 - 1/24/2018, 11:21 AM
Here's to civility!

DarthMoose
DarthMoose - 1/24/2018, 11:37 AM
I really enjoyed this instalment watching it again tonight. Currently playing Star Wars battlefront 2 in PS4 and loving it! Don't listen to the haters decide for yourself.
AvisQuinn
AvisQuinn - 1/24/2018, 11:46 AM
I've rather enjoyed the bickering, and the debate The Last Jedi has enabled us to have. Could do with a little less name-calling and intelligence insulting, though.

I don't want the debate to end, because at its core is a question of representation, and whether it's being done to bolster an agenda. It's like asking the question: what's the difference between Star Trek: Voyager and Wonder Woman?

I'm convinced, however, that Kathleen Kennedy has, inadvertently, alienated a substantial amount of the fan-base, though, but evidence of that won't be present until Episode IX is released.

As I've stated many times on this site, Episode VIII was a masterfully-crafted film; I just hated (passionately) nearly every narrative decision that went into the film.
SisterSunday52
SisterSunday52 - 1/24/2018, 12:01 PM
You beat me to the punch. I was going to do an article about a similar subject, except mine would expand to every fandom. I consider those who say "You're not a true fan if you like/hate _______" to be the worst kind of fan, even over the overzealous, especially since they kind of go hand in hand. No one owns the fandom. When it comes to DC Films, I can cite so many DC Comics that justify every scene, character character direction and story in Zack Snyder's DC Films as being very faithful to the source material. Yet "true DC fans know that Zack Snyder's DC Films are a betrayal of the source material and hate them". That's complete and total garbage. Contrary to popular belief, I can cite how they, in no way altered the core of the characters they portray and, guess what? Even if they did, that doesn't mean someone who likes them isn't a true fan. In my opinion, David Goyer's Superman story in which he renounces his American citizenship is one of the worst DC Comics stories and, without a doubt, one of the worst Superman stories ever written. Superman is who he is because he believes in all the things that America aspires to Liberty and Justice for all. He is a representation of the good our country can be when it let's all its citizens, especially its immigrants, push themselves to be who they want to be. America made Superman and renouncing his American citizenship is totally out of character for him, but if you consider that story to be the very definition of who Superman is and should be, you are still a true DC fan, because you love a DC character. The only way someone is not a true DC fan, a true Star Wars, a true Marvel fan, etc. is if they don't like those properties in any way shape or form. If everyone else hates a specific interpretation of a character, but you like that interpretation, welcome to the fandom. You are a true fan. Can't wait to talk about something else in the property that we all love.
ALIENCROW
ALIENCROW - 1/24/2018, 12:02 PM
I think a major reason why the debate is so heated is because movie potholes and continuity error aside; theirs also politics to be debated through this film. Feminist vs Non Feminist, SJW vs Non SJW, those that believe this movie pandered to the left and those that say it doesn't , things of that nature are what added more fuel to the fire.
Nightwing1015
Nightwing1015 - 1/24/2018, 12:08 PM
@ALIENCROW - You're right. But I think that's more due to everything being politicised now. Many left-wing people will say new Star Wars contains left-leaning messages and praise it while right-wingers will say that's a bad thing. I think if the prequels had come out in this era the same discussion would be taking place. It's just that everyone makes everything so highly politicised these days even if it's not there.
AvatarAang
AvatarAang - 1/24/2018, 12:24 PM
How did you all feel about Luke debating to murder Kylo?

I couldn't take that. The entire original trilogy is devoted to Luke seeing the good in Darth Vader and knowing he can still return to the light, despite being a murderous Sith Lord for decades.

Luke sees some darkness in a fifteen year old kid and is like "Nah, gotta put this guy down". Besides just not feeling like something Luke would do (in my opinion), it also doesn't track logically.

Open to debate on this, would love for someone to make me understand this better.
BinZin
BinZin - 1/24/2018, 12:33 PM
@AvatarAang - I think they were trying to explore the imperfection of the hero. I thought Anakin's turn the dark side made less sense in the prequels, i mean he mowed down children, where as Luke was afraid for a legitimate reason and decided against giving in his fear at the last moment. I liked that they showed that the struggle was on going for force users, the temptation to go to the dark side never leaves, and no one is perfect.

I was hoping to see a super powerful Luke Skywalker finding his own way in the force, but i did enjoy the unexpected turn of events. I think maybe to insinuate that Snoke had more to do with it might have been a good way to alleviate some of Luke's guilt and dark portrale.
AvatarAang
AvatarAang - 1/24/2018, 12:40 PM
@BinZin - Appreciate your thoughtful response. Reason always prevails.

I hadn't really thought about it from this angle. The idea that the dark is always present in the light, and that Luke is as susceptible to that as his father and his nephew. This makes a lot of sense to me.
KaioKen
KaioKen - 1/24/2018, 12:49 PM
@BinZin - I think the director was overzealous trying to explore is chosen themes. Killing the past, destroying the myth of the hero, etc.

He dove into those themes at the expense of 40 FCKING YEARS of characterization of these characters.

Having Luke just die for no reason sucked, completely castrating Luke Skywalker as a hero sucked, turning him into a potential murderer sucked.

In this movie hes sooo far from the character we saw in Return of The Jedi they may as well have given him a new name.
BinZin
BinZin - 1/25/2018, 6:17 AM
@KaioKen - I could agree with all of those points to some extent, I would have preferred if he was a little more gentle with certain aspects of the past, he certainly came across as cavalier.

But I do like that it "sucked" because in real life people suck and even good people make mistakes, and often more than one. In that way it helped me connect with the character. He died a hero, giving hope to the galaxy. In that point, i cannot agree that he died for no reason.
BinZin
BinZin - 1/25/2018, 6:18 AM
@AvatarAang - I enjoy talking about the philosophical aspects of story, thanks for the invite.
Delta169
Delta169 - 1/24/2018, 12:35 PM
The reasons why people dislike the movie are valid. I personally liked the movie. I didn't mind the change in personality in Luke. I don't expect him to be the exact same 30 years later. My whole summary of the Rey and Luke scenes to me are "People change and never meet your heroes."
willyburz
willyburz - 1/24/2018, 12:45 PM
The movie is horrible. It contradicts TFA lead ins, and completely destroys characters and how they grew in the established movie franchise, or were portrayed in the previous 4 movies. The rules are in place from prior movies already, this movie is not the first in the series. Rian basically contradicted previous movie lead ins, made shit up to move the movie forward, while destroying many characters in the process. F this movie...I never thought Id say that about a Star Wars movie?!?!😠
DanJack
DanJack - 1/24/2018, 2:34 PM
@willyburz - Amen on pretty much all of that. This is what people are missing. This is not a little tiny misstep. This is a franchise destroying step into the Grand Canyon. We didn't need Star Wars to be re-defined by a tool. The Jedi are not terrible. While some made mistakes, they did far more good than not. Just because some went darkside, doesn't mean the Jedi failed. Far from it. The worst possible thing one could have is a universe with almost God like powers going around untrained. It would be like X-Men without Professor X, and Luke should have been that Professor X instead of the cow sucking loser we got. Shame Disney! Fie on thee!!
willyburz
willyburz - 1/24/2018, 6:39 PM
@DanJack - agreed...I tried to simplify things, as we could write a book on the contradicting issues, and clear nonsense Rian did with this movie. I am still irritated by this movie.
Mobrex
Mobrex - 1/24/2018, 12:52 PM
Heh, I don't hate fans that like TLJ but I do hate TLJ. It's just so mediocre during repeat viewings(when my mind wasn't screaming wtf like the first viewing). Heroes through poor writing are turned in sub par villains (Poe,Luke,Finn) Villains are reduced to jokes (Hux,Kylo,Snoke). And our hero Rey has yet to do anything heroic besides move some rocks and we're 2/3 done. Star Wars has always been really interesting to me but like Luke it's just fading away in cold sweats now. Sorta feels like Indiana Jones 4 after thinking about it more...
AtomicArtist
AtomicArtist - 1/24/2018, 1:06 PM
I completely agree with most of the major criticisms against the movie. I didn't like how they treated certain characters, especially Luke.

The point of my article above was to try to bring to light the fact that we need to be more tolerant of other opinions on the film.

It is hard for many of us who grew up watching the original trilogy, and who have almost considered Luke as family our entire lives, to see how someone else who is maybe just getting into Star Wars with the new trilogy doesn't mind how Luke was treated in The Last Jedi. They don't have the same attachment to the original characters that we do, so the way Luke was handled in this new trilogy has no major impact on them.

As long as they keep putting out new Star Wars movies, there will be new fans joining in along the way that don't know about what came before. That is bound to create vastly differing opinions about the same movie. We don't have to agree with them, but we can't throw hate at them either. Everyone has to join a fandom somewhere. Maybe people who just saw The Last Jedi as their first Star Wars movie and liked it will now go back and want to see what came before. Maybe that will change their opinion of the movie, maybe it won't.

Berating people for not liking the movie isn't going to make them like it any more.

Likewise, berating people for liking the movie isn't going to make them hate it.

We can and should voice our opinions, but we have to remember they are OUR opinions. Trying to force them on others is a futile effort.
Inktown03
Inktown03 - 1/24/2018, 1:06 PM
The last Jedi was trash period.
BlackConvoy
BlackConvoy - 1/24/2018, 1:16 PM
I agree with ending the bickering, but my absolute hate for this movie is never going away. And I will continue state my reasons why I think it's a highly flawed mess, and I am open for debate. I won't belittle the fans who like the movie though if that makes people happy. Unless someone replies with some bs about that I can't get over Luke being whatever. Or that I'm upset that my theories not playing out. Which I had none. If I did I literally pulled them out of my ass for shits and giggles. Then the gloves are off.
DanJack
DanJack - 1/24/2018, 1:21 PM
I can respect your intentions with this and I also respect anyone with differing opinions. However, you should also try to understand the perspective of the majority of the fan base and how bad things are for the franchise right now. Barring some sort of JJ Hail Mary pass miracle or genius ignoring of the previous film, the SW franchise is running the risk of becoming irrelevant in today's cinema. What they did to the character of Luke would be something like if they did a new Sherlock Holmes movie, but instead of him being an obsessed detective, he is now retired completely and is a secret child molestor. It would be just as radical of a departure to what they did with Luke.

I agree fans should try to respect differing views, but there is also a protest component that Disney should not ignore. It's a very bad time for Star Wars and passionate fans feel they have no voice at all other than to express their views in any forum they can.
AtomicArtist
AtomicArtist - 1/24/2018, 1:43 PM
@DanJack - Believe me, I am right there with you in hoping JJ can somehow turn things around. I was not a fan of the new movie in the least.

My point about respecting other opinions and not resorting to name calling, or saying someone else isn't a "true" fan for liking/not liking the movie, is all about how our own opinions are received.

If those of us who weren't fans of the movie continue to call those who DID like it names, or say they can't possibly be fans if they liked it, etc. then we provide fuel to the argument that we are an angry group of haters. It discredits the valid points many people have made about what they feel was wrong with the movie. That doesn't help our opinions to be taken seriously, which doesn't help the push for change going forward.

Likewise the people who DID enjoy the movie have been just as nasty towards those who didn't like it.

This is an issue on both sides that needs to be overcome if there is any hope of progress moving forward. Those who did/didn't like the movie need to be civil in voicing their opinions, and also respectful of those who didn't/did like it.

In the end both sides need the other. If the divide continues to grow it will have effects on the franchise going forward that will be bad for both sides.

DanJack
DanJack - 1/24/2018, 2:00 PM
@AtomicArtist - I agree in terms of respecting each other. Sadly, we live in a time now when sites all over the web have devolved into a troll war lacking in civility and respect. This is aggravated by the fact that big companies such as Disney now pay shills to defend them or give critics incentives (or threats) in order to get good reviews. It can make many fans feel isolated and without a voice because of so much media spin.

Still props to you for trying to find common ground and bring a little civility. I respect you. I just don't respect Disney anymore (in SW at least) and they will have to do something magical to turn things around.

I have spent literally 10's of thousands of dollars on SW stuff over the years, as Star Wars was arguably the best space opera myth of modern times. To see the myth not only thrown away, but also the characters of the past have their entire natures changed, is very hurtful. It makes me regret ever supporting this franchise at all, and I'm in the process of selling every Star Wars related item I have ever purchased.

To borrow a phrase from another big myth, if a franchise has forgotten the face of its father, then it's time for me to forget the franchise. Just let it die. Kill it if you have to.

BlackConvoy
BlackConvoy - 1/25/2018, 8:34 AM
@DanJack - What they did is pretty much what was done to Spider-Man and his marriage to MJ.
DanJack
DanJack - 1/25/2018, 11:11 AM
@BlackConvoy - That's a fair point and angered heaps of fans. Destroying the most popular character in the franchise would be akin to making Sherlock Holmes a child molester in a new film. Some might find it new and compelling (critics probably would), but the character would still be a repulsive pederast.
SupermansTrunks
SupermansTrunks - 1/24/2018, 1:26 PM
Its Star Wars. Fans will always talk shit until the next generation of comes along.
parkerray
parkerray - 1/24/2018, 1:50 PM
I'm not sure which is the saddest part, Mark Hamill's pained face in interviews, or the fact that The Last Jedi is just the beginning of Reamin Johnson's reign of terror.

And I'm not really feeling that passive acceptance is the best response to someone pissing on something you love and spitting in your face.
DanJack
DanJack - 1/24/2018, 2:01 PM
@parkerray - Agreed. Fans should stop at nothing short of a franchise reboot for the next movie or at the very least the removal or RJ on the next trilogy he planned.
BlackConvoy
BlackConvoy - 1/26/2018, 9:11 AM
@DanJack - I'm starting to wonder if he's even getting a trilogy, or if that was just to bait more people into seeing the movie.
DanJack
DanJack - 1/26/2018, 9:54 AM
@BlackConvoy - We can only hope to the Force that his trilogy is cancelled. I can't imagine the suffering an audience would have to go through to see 3 more predictable, pedestrian, vapid Star Wars movies.
Fogs
Fogs - 1/24/2018, 2:14 PM
It’s just a movie.
DanJack
DanJack - 1/24/2018, 2:27 PM
@Fogs - that's not really true. Art has the power to shape culture, build up or tear down societies, and change the hearts and opinions of humankind. Something with the mythic connections of Star Wars is still entertainment yes, but its impact on culture should not be ignored. Last Jedi's retconning and wholesale flushing of the legacy down the toilet, is not a small thing at all. It's not just a movie, and may end up being the first nail in the franchise's coffin.
Fogs
Fogs - 1/25/2018, 3:52 AM
@DanJack - I’m talking about the fanboy fight. It’s just a movie.

I understand the messages contained in art and the subliminary (not so much sometimes) social messages put there.

TLJ was mediocre to bad, btw.
DanJack
DanJack - 1/25/2018, 6:43 AM
@Fogs - I understand what you mean. I agree that fans shouldn't put on the hate to each other, but it's a shame to see humanity's most powerful cinematic myth reduced to a film rooted all in shock value. I never thought I'd see this day.
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