ECHO: Marvel Studios Head Writer Discusses The Upcoming Project

ECHO: Marvel Studios Head Writer Discusses The Upcoming Project

Marvel Studios' upcoming project 'ECHO' head writer finally speaks out about how they feel in regards to the show's overall development.

By JonathanDan - Jan 06, 2023 01:01 PM EST
Filed Under: Echo
Source: MCU DIRECT

As many of us MCU fans await the hopefully correctional 'Phase 5', as the next installment in the overall universe of Marvel, behind the scenes of an included project hints that it might not be as good as they had hoped.

ECHO, which is one of Marvel Studios' upcoming Disney Plus shows, seems to be a very ambiguous case out of all the other announced projects we will be getting in the near future. With many fans questioning the existence of this show in the MCU, others like myself are remaining confident of the quality.

However, in a recent podcast known as "The Writer's Panel", the head writer of the upcoming show and former writer on the hit series "Better Call Saul", 'Marion Dayre', explicably shared her experiences when asked about 'ECHO'. Here is what Marion had to say:

It was really about finding a process in the moment that allowed me to get to some deadlines and, you know, be a little more flexible than I would have been if, you know, if I had all the time in the world I would have done it a little bit differently.” - Marion Dayre

That last line is hardly reassuring at all, as it is a clear indication that the writing process for Marion and her team was not as ideal as they had hoped.

Dayre then went on to say:

"Yeah it, it was kind of a crash course, you know, because I came in as a co-EP and then changed… that changed a little bit, and so I didn’t start there at the ground level, but really like shifting and changing a process to work with deadlines. Like, Better Call Saul very much uses a brick-by-brick process where we essentially break each episode three times. You do sort of a general overall break, and then we lay out some arcs, and then we go back in and brick by brick." - Marion Dayre

In simple terms, from her time on "Better Call Saul", she and her team were able to structure the episode more in a strong format-like way, using the brick process. If she was given more time for ECHO, she would definitely take more pride in her work.

We as an audience are very quick to judge content from the moment we are given some, and right now, nothing concerning ECHO has been released to the general public as of yet.

I am still remaining optimistic about the show, and hope that whichever work she and her team did is at least decent.

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ProfessorWhy
ProfessorWhy - 1/6/2023, 1:44 PM
The real echo will be when Josh drops this exact same article
DocSpock
DocSpock - 1/6/2023, 4:22 PM


I am hyped for this.

I think Hawkeye was by far the best MCU TV show.

I hope the quality on this matches that.

Lucky the pizza dog FTW!!!!!!!!!!

McMurdo
McMurdo - 1/6/2023, 5:06 PM
@DocSpock - Hawkeye is fart away from being the worst MCU project of Phase 4, this side of Eternal's large intestine.



This Echo show sounds like a dumpster fire too. When the writer basically says EH? Meh in an interview, that's usually a red flag.
DocSpock
DocSpock - 1/6/2023, 5:36 PM
@McMurdo -

Bah! Echo may flop, but Hawkeye was great.

Luigi
Luigi - 1/6/2023, 4:45 PM
And I thought I couldn't be less hyped for this
Amaru
Amaru - 1/6/2023, 4:45 PM
Your articles are really bad and have too much of your opinion in them, they aren't news.

"If she was given more time for ECHO, she would definitely take more pride in her work." This was your opinion, not what she said based off your quotes that you chose to use.

I really wish you would quit posting "news".
McMurdo
McMurdo - 1/6/2023, 5:07 PM
@Amaru - uh buddy. She just came out and said deadlines, woulda done it differently.
Amaru
Amaru - 1/6/2023, 5:34 PM
@McMurdo - Doing something different and taking pride in your work are two different things. Your reading comprehension is as good as his.
McMurdo
McMurdo - 1/7/2023, 5:24 PM
@Amaru - delusions of grandeur
StSteven
StSteven - 1/6/2023, 6:01 PM
The mention of "deadlines" multiple times and how it seems she's indicating that affected their development process makes me think that this is another result of Bob Chapek's "quantity over quality" mentality. Hopefully now that's over.

And don't get me wrong - I liked everything that came out of Phase 4 to varying degrees, but I do think that it could have been handled better and more consistently if there hadn't been this seeming rush to get shit out the door and strike while the iron is hot and before people get tired of superhero content, or whatever Bob's reasoning was.
Scarilian
Scarilian - 1/6/2023, 8:49 PM
@StSteven -
Nah, it's just a matter of only a tiny portion of the audience knowing who Echo is an even smaller percentage of the audience caring enough about her to want a spin-off series focused on her. They know Daredevil is the main commodity that people want so similar to She-Hulk will use Daredevil as a reason for people to check out the show, even though he'll probably appear for a limited amount of time and likely in a penultimate or final episode.

As for the 'quantity over quality' changing to focus more on 'quality', that will not happen until at least mid/late 2025 - anything that was in production or filming is not magically going to suddenly shift to quality story telling material and they need to get past the mess left from the previous installments which will linger. I also don't have much faith in the idea that it was just because they produced more that the quality sucked, no, the problem is that they had no care for the story of the products they were making, that won't change if they make less of them.

Also, blaming Bob Chapek is not entirely accurate - this show is one of the many approved by Feige that was demonstrating his direction of 'having more female heroes than male heroes'
Scarilian
Scarilian - 1/6/2023, 8:56 PM
TLDR:
Phase 5 is going to be a very bumpy mess, arguably with a lot of products potentially being worse than Phase 4 because they'll be struggling to course correct anything they can and many Phase 5 projects rely on Phase 4 to be fully understood and may appear confusing or daunting to people who have not seen the Disney series stuff.
StSteven
StSteven - 1/7/2023, 8:44 PM
@Scarilian - Nope. Nope, nope, nopety-nope. Your opinions don't align exactly with mine and therefore are complete rubbish, and I will hear no more of your ignorant drivel. Good day, sir. I say, good day! 😉

Seriously, although you are generally more critical of the MCU than I am, I agree with a number of your points, but I'll work from the bottom up (BTW this is a rather long read so if you're short of time you can skip to the TL;DR at the bottom):

First off, I don't know how things really went down behind the scenes at Disney and Marvel so my thoughts on this are just really my opinions based on everything I've read here and other places, but I agree that it wasn't solely Bob Chapek who was responsible for how Phase 4 turned out. I think it was a number of factors with a lot of it due to COVID affecting production schedules and such with the different projects being developed semi-autonomously, etc. BUT I think the other main contributing factor was the launch of D+ and the need for it to be successful despite the lack of new content to bring in new viewers.

Enter Bob Chapek. My guess (although I don't actually know) is that with Marvel being arguably Disney's hottest property right now, Bob's dictum to Kevin was something along the lines of "I want a new Marvel project out every other month, and I don't care which ones. That's up to you", hence the reports that we've seen about Kevin & Co. being stretched really thin, which along with the above COVID considerations is likely what led to the variations in quality that we've seen and the aforementioned lessening connectivity along with the shear amount of content that's come out in such a short amount of time. I mean honestly Kevin couldn't possibly have read every script for every project, then offered feedback, etc. He likely had to put a lot of faith in the other producers if for nothing other than his own sanity.

That being said, with Kevin being President AND Chief Creative Officer of Marvel, even if the amount of Marvel content wasn't up to him, the content itself was, in as far as which new characters to introduce, whose stories to continue, and what format to present it in.
And although I don't know him personally, Kevin seems like a pretty "make the best of the situation" kind of guy, so he probably saw this whole situation as a way to (1) deal with the repercussions of the "IS" and wrap that up, (2) Introduce a bunch of new characters to the MCU that they're going to need for Phases 5 &6 (especially with "A:SW"), and (3) get the story lines set up for Phases 5 & 6 (especially "A:SW"). So I don't fault him for how he handled a situation which was a potential disaster from the beginning, given all of the above elements at play.

Regarding your comment about Feige had a direction of more female heroes than male heroes, the whole idea of more inclusion, representation, and diversity in Marvel (and every other Disney property) didn't originate with Feige. Given the world in which we currently live in, all major entertainment brands are making an effort in the space and so my guess is that the direction for all that didn't come from Kevin, or Bob, but from the Mouse himself. Kevin is just trying to do his best to "check off the boxes" of the card of boxes he was given. That's not to say that Kevin & Co. at Marvel don't want more diversity in their characters and their stories, and I've personally enjoyed their various efforts, and I think they would have done it anyway even without what was likely an edict from the Mouse on High. I mean, hell, I think that I learned more about the Muslim and Pakistani culture from watching "Ms. Marvel" than I ever have from having Muslim and Pakistani friends. I guess sometimes you just need to get the information in front of people in a medium that they can easily consume and enjoy, and I think that Marvel is doing a great job of that, whether it be culture, mental illness, etc. And to be perfectly honest, look, I loves me some Cap ("CA:WS" is one of my most favorite MCU movies, like most folks), but if I had to watch 25 movies of "a strong white guy punching another strong white guy" I would have tuned out a long time ago. So, yes, while Kevin is having to check off those boxes, I think that he's honestly trying to do it in a way that would be the most entertaining to us as fans (he's a fan as well).

Which brings me to your assessment of "Echo". You are absolutely correct that Echo is a relatively unknown character to the GA and aside from the "checking boxes" bullshit, when you're introducing ANY new character to the mainstream in their own show, it makes perfect sense to include high profile characters (i.e. DD & Kingpin) to bring in viewers that might not be otherwise interested in Echo herself but want to see those other characters, with the hope being that they will find something to like about the new character (Echo) and present them in a way that fans will want to see more of them, and I don't think that Marvel would deny that. Personally, I liked Echo well enough in "Hawkeye", she seemed like an interesting character that I wouldn't mind seeing more of, but if I'm being honest, the inclusion of DD and KP in that show really moves the needle for me on my "must watch shows" list, which is the obvious intent (as well as setting up "DD:BA". You can't fault them for doing that.

Finally I'll address your assertion that we won't see the MCU get back to "quality or quantity" until mid/late 2025. My short answer is "Eh, I don't that it's going to take that long, but we'll just have to wait and see". Here's the longer version: my guess is (just a guess) that Kevin wasn't particularly happy with Chapek's (or whomever's) mandate to start turning out Marvel content like a Chili's instead of the more Lawry's Steakhouse content that they had been doing prior to Phase 4, not to mention all the toll that it was likely taking on him and his team. So when the word came down that they were going to slow things down a bit, refocus, and revamp their Plans for Phases 5 and 6, he was probably pretty relieved and got his team together to revamp their plans.

So with that in mind, my guess is that Kevin looked at what was already in production and how long, what was already in the can, and to determine what needed to stay for the service of the Multiverse Saga story that they were telling, and what could likely be pushed off for a bit (like "Echo", unless her story includes an important plot point for the "MS", which I doubt it does). So with that in mind, I think that we'll see some noticeable changes before mid/late 2025, if not in the quality of the content, but just the shear amount of it and how it's handled. I mean, if you treat every new Marvel D+ release like a movie of the week, that's how people are going to perceive it. So I think that starting with 2024 (and maybe 2023) we're going to start seeing every new MCU release (D+ or theater) as being treated as more of an "epic event" to generate the hype that I think has been somewhat lost in Phase 4 by it being a new MCU project every other month.

Anyhow, those are my thoughts. I apologize for the "Avatar 2"-sized length of this post (take THAT Cameron!), but I do rather enjoy civilized conversation on these topics and tend to indulge myself whenever I get the chance. See below for my DL;DR. Cheers!

DL;DR:
- I make jokes 😉
- I think that there were a number of factors that contributed to Phase 4 being what it was including COVID, D+, and the pressure on Feige from Chapek to get as much new Marvel out onto D+ ASAP (purely my assumption based on what I've read)
- Feige was, however, ultimately responsible for the new content that we got as CCO and tried to use to opportunities to set everything up for the Multiverse Saga while wrapping up the "IW" Saga AND while also trying to expand inclusivity, diversity, and representation whenever possible
- Naturally studios are going to want to use popular established characters to lure viewers to check out their new characters
- Personally I think that Kevin was waiting on the call to revamp their Phase 5 & 6 plans and he and his team got right to work on that so I think that we'll start seeing some announcements and other notable changes way sooner than mid/late 2025 (fingers crossed)

That's it man. If you read through the whole post I hope you had a nice glass of scotch or something comparable while doing so (BTW if you think this one is long, I had originally finished my first version of this post and the lost it due to that damned "Error: Server..." so I had to start all over and I'm pretty sure this version is longer). Best!
Scarilian
Scarilian - 1/10/2023, 2:14 PM
@StSteven -
"I think it was a number of factors"

It was a lot of factors, but some of these trace all the way back to around Thor Ragnarok & Captain Marvel when Feige wanted to change the focus of the MCU going forward.

"didn't originate with Feige."

True, it was mostly something they wanted to capitalize on when Wonder Woman was popular. The idea has always been to diversify to cause controversy/conversation they can use as a marketing tactic as opposed to them wanting to actually properly represent people, sexes, etc...

"it makes perfect sense to include high profile characters"

I don't deny that it makes sense to include high profile characters in shows that are generally focused around low profile characters, the problem is more that I don't think the character/show as a concept could hold up without Daredevil and Kingpin.

"So I think that starting with 2024 (and maybe 2023) we're going to start seeing every new MCU release (D+ or theater) as being treated as more of an "epic event" to generate the hype that I think has been somewhat lost in Phase 4 by it being a new MCU project every other month."

Maybe, the biggest concern is Daredevil. It already seems like they are going to rehash some of the Netflix stuff again as they are treating him more as a variant.

"I do rather enjoy civilized conversation on these topics"
"if you think this one is long"
Ah, a fellow long poster :P I'm normally the same, but I don't have too much to say on Phase 5/6. I think it's difficult for them to change plans or things now because they've lacked
StSteven
StSteven - 1/10/2023, 10:30 PM
@Scarilian - I think that we're mostly on the same page here, but I'll make some additional comments in response to your responses to my responses to your responses to your, oh hell, you know what I mean, Instead of copying and pasting your comments I'll just enumerate them because I've been doing computer stuff all day and I'm getting lazy:

(From top to bottom)
1. Definitely a lot of factors and in some ways a "perfect storm". Aside from everything else I mentioned, you are correct that Feige wanted to change things up, but he kinda had to. I mean, they were falling into that trap where everyone was referring to the "Marvel Formula" (which, as you notice, doesn't really get bandied about much these days, although I'm sure that there are some who would like a return to the good 'ole days of the "Marvel Formula") which basically was "arrogant white guy f**ks up, learns his lesson, and then becomes a superhero". So that lent to movies (and now shows) focusing on different genders, ethnicities, environments (on-planet and off), etc. Plus, the MCU had to expand, so the character opportunities expanded with it. It was a natural progression. Plus, dude, if I had to sit through 22 movies of the "Marvel Formula" as I described it above just to get to the end of the "Infinity Saga" I probably would have checked out after movie 10 or so. Movie 10 or 11. Maybe 12. But you get my point.

2. "The idea has always been to diversify to cause controversy/conversation they can use as a marketing tactic". I both agree and disagree on this point. I think from the exec's point of view (and this is in general, not just Disney), you're probably right. It's a business decision. Everything is. ROIs, bottom lines, etc. But from the "Creatives" point of view (i.e. Kevin and on down) I think that they really wanted to be able to tell stories that had all this diversity, not for diversities sake, but for the story-telling potential that it opened up for them. I mean I can't speak for Kevin or anyone on his team, but he really seems like someone who is passionate about being all to use all these different characters to tell all these different stories. I've made posts before about I imagine that in Kevin's head it's like he's got a toy box full of Marvel figures that he can dump out on the rug and go *pew pew* with. Now, he's obviously the President of Marvel in addition to the CCO, so I'm not saying that he's not always conscious of the business side of things (as he has to be), but I'd like to believe that while the execs are thinking "yeah let's do a woman led movie - that ought to bring in a lot of revenue from all the discussion and open up new areas of financial growth", Kevin's more like "Oh I get to use Captain Marvel now? Cool! So... what if she meets Fury back in the 90s and...". But I could be wrong.

3. I wouldn't say that the show wouldn't hold up without DD or KP, but it most likely wouldn't have the same attraction, unless the writing, acting, etc. was just STELLAR. I mean, you can look at something like "Stranger Things", which didn't have any characters that we'd heard of (except for Captain Nostalgia) and not exactly A-list actors (Winona's been on low profile for a number of years), but it managed to gain a massive following due to the quality of the writing and production value. So it can be done. But in the MCU it would be tough because of everyone's expectations. Marvel has kind of gotten themselves into this situation where they made everything so connected (more or less) that everyone expects that. So if they offer a new show about a relatively unknown character, regardless of the quality of the show, we're all going to be watching going "yeah this is really good but when is _______ going to show up? Or how does this tie into _______?", which exactly what's going to happen whenever "Echo" comes out.

4. Actually, I think that DD is going to be pretty awesome and I'm not worried. Sure, they could water him down as a character, but I think that a number of factors indicate (to me anyway) that DD is going to be a big deal, so I'm not too worried that they're going to f**k this up. So you start with the fact that Marvel (like other entertainment companies) are not stupid in the sense that they listen to what the fans say. I can't promise, but I wouldn't surprised if they have people reading our comments on this site and others almost daily. They've got it. They know what we like and what we want. Now how far they can/will go to get us that is the mystery because they can't just give the fanboys everything they want all the time (good God I can't imagine what kind of a Frankenstein's most of a show that would look like). But the fact that they are going with (as far as we know) a TV-MA rating for "DD:BA" in the US is to me proof that they listened to the fans that loved the Netflix show and want that level of DD intensity. Now, I doubt that we're going to see KP killing someone with a car door, but we'll see how far they're willing to go with that rating.

Also, an 18 episode series commitment UP FRONT is a pretty big deal, even if it's just half hour episodes, which I don't think that we have confirmation on. And if the rumors are true about Spidey 4 being a Spidey and DD team up at some point (which I hope it is), this all makes sense. I mean, what better way to get another $!billion+ Spidey movie than to spend the time up to that point building up the hype with DD, KP, et. al (Spidey doesn't need any hyping). Just makes perfect sense to me, creatively and financially. Lastly, I think that Marvel was testing the waters on DD in the MCU with "NWH" and "She-Hulk" and based on the response, I think they got their answer. So, I think that we're going to get something great with "DD:BA" and I would expect Marvel to hype it quite a bit.

5. Yeah, I do post some long posts (this one for example), probably more often than not, but it really depends on the topic, if I feel like I have something to say that requires a lot of words, what I'm doing at work (I'm a Data Scientist so I build Machine Learning models and sometimes you just have to let them run which can take hours so then I either go do stuff around my house (I WFH) or get online and read/post). etc. But other times I'll just post a snarky sentence or two. Oh, and I'm an adjunct professor, so I have this innate need to hear myself talk 😉.
Scarilian
Scarilian - 1/23/2023, 6:06 PM
@StSteven -
1) What you are referring to is the 'heroes journey', which has been absent from newer films. As such it falls flat for a lot of new characters because they never earn the heroic title in the eyes of the audience. The heroes journey is fairly cliche, but it is such for a reason because it works. The newer stuff strays away from the heroes journey and is instead using varying flavor of the weak aspects to distract - whether it be race, sex, nostalgia, location, etc...

2) By having controversial casting decisions it serves as its own marketing, it creates a controversy and then the studio gets to play the victim, virtue signal and be praised for doing something that others have already done better elsewhere. I'm referring not to in-story choices such as the Nick Fury aspect, but more the idea that they need to flood the franchise with female characters because of some imagined wrong they did prior OR to try and alter the target audience because the previous audience was losing interest.

3) The reality is that most the shows on Netflix sold themselves primarily on the characters, story and world building. They made Jessica Jones, Luke Cage and even Iron Fist popular enough to each get two seasons. The characters names alone sold those pieces of media despite being lesser known. Echo meanwhile is even less known that these characters, they've intentionally went for a character that fits into the diversity aspects they want to represent also, which would be fine if it was a character people actually wanted to watch. Nobody was asking for an Agatha show, an Echo show or even an Iron Heart show.

4) At the moment with the Daredevil series the main concern is that its 18 episodes in a Disney+ series. None of the Disney+ shows have been able to tell a strong story to keep people invested that long, many dropping off prior. Even in the case the story is strong it will be compared to the Netflix series and it's almost certainly not going to achieve the same visual style. They demonstrated that clearly when they couldn't even deliver upon a hallway fight in She-Hulk.

5) I'm fine with long posts, just been busy myself xD
marvel72
marvel72 - 1/7/2023, 8:55 AM
Confident of the quality.

Its a f*ckin Disney Plus show, haven't you seen the other shows.
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