ECHO Writer Explains Kingpin's Ending, Daredevil's (Brief) Cameo, And Marvel Spotlight Advantages - SPOILERS

ECHO Writer Explains Kingpin's Ending, Daredevil's (Brief) Cameo, And Marvel Spotlight Advantages - SPOILERS

Echo writer Amy Rardin has revealed new details about The Kingpin's final clash with Maya Lopez, explained Daredevil's surprisingly brief cameo, and what advantages the "Marvel Spotlight" banner presented.

By JoshWilding - Jan 12, 2024 07:01 AM EST
Filed Under: Echo
Source: Deadline

Echo premiered earlier this week and, for the most part, it's been met with a positive response. There were clearly behind-the-scenes issues which saw the show put through the wringer during post-production, but Maya Lopez's story is well worth checking out. 

Deadline recently caught up with Echo writer Amy Rardin and asked about Maya's final scene with The Kingpin. In that, she appears to use her newfound abilities to heal her uncle's emotional trauma so he can move on from the past in the same way she has. The question is, did it work? 

"However messed up their relationship is, Kingpin is obviously a monster, but there is love there, in its own weird way. Kingpin has the capacity for love in his very twisted way. He was one of the people who raised Maya, and deep down I think, she does love him, even though she realizes he did all these horrible things and manipulated her and and is a killer and not a good person."

"I think what makes their relationship so interesting is she’s one of the few people that can see glimpses of goodness in him. And so it’s her not giving up on him at the end. He just can’t do it," she added, seemingly confirming Wilson Fisk is no changed man following this clash. 

Rardin was also asked about Daredevil's cameo (which ultimately amounted to little more than 90 seconds), explaining the importance of that scene to Maya's story. 

"I mean, we were really excited to get to use Daredevil, because he’s a very important part of in the [Echo] comics. So we knew that we were going to want to use him in a specific way. The fight between Daredevil and Maya was very important to Sydney [Freeland]. We talked a lot in the room about consistently keeping the story from Maya’s point of view. Because we know how excited everyone is about Daredevil."

"But really what that fight is about is Maya going from student to practical. It’s the first time she kills someone. It’s the first time she proves herself to Kingpin. She took on one of his biggest rivals. It’s her coming into her own in Fisk’s operation. So that is how we approached that fight. To get to be able to use Daredevil was amazing, but it was very much in service of Maya’s story and who she is at that time in her life."

In the comics, Matt Murdock and Maya embark on a romantic relationship, only for things to take an unexpected twist when she becomes Echo and sets out to kill his alter-ego, Daredevil (after The Kingpin fooled her into believing the Man Without Fear murdered him). There wasn't time for that in this series, though it's a shame they only crossed paths once. 

As for the benefits of making Echo under the newly launched Marvel Spotlight banner - which we're pretty sure wasn't a thing when the show was conceived and in production - Rardin shared this about what it meant for the series. 

"Origin stories are great. They’re wonderful and we all love watching them, but I think that [Marvel] wanted to do a different kind of story. And as a writer, I thought that was really exciting. So in terms of not having the traditional story points that you see in this [type of] origin story and getting to approach this more as a family drama…it’s kind of a different way in. I think we could expand on the family, expand on the town, the color of the townspeople that we see come in and out. I think that [Marvel spotlight banner] gave us the freedom to do that. So it was very creatively freeing for sure."

All five episodes of Echo are now streaming on Disney+.

ECHO Is Disney+'s Second Biggest TV Series In 2024...But It's Still A Long Way From First Place
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lazlodaytona
lazlodaytona - 1/12/2024, 8:05 AM


for the 3rd time

(just giving you trouble mate. I Love the site)
DemonTweeks
DemonTweeks - 1/12/2024, 8:06 AM
decent show. enjoyed it. didnt quite stick the landing though in my opinion but still enjoyed it all the same.
rychlec
rychlec - 1/12/2024, 8:18 AM
They couldn't give Echo even a bloody lip after a brawl with Daredevil? People would respect the character more if she took on some damage... like Beatrix Kiddo.
Origame
Origame - 1/12/2024, 11:08 AM
@rychlec - remember when daredevil spent all second episode recovering from a fight...that happened off screen?

Now we can't even have a cut lip as a consequence of a fight with a superhero.
rychlec
rychlec - 1/12/2024, 11:18 AM
@Origame - Right? Same thing in the Marvels, flawless make-up; nice hair... like cosplay for Instagram. These are heroes fighting for their lives - it should cause an injury or two. It doesn't have to look like the end of a Rocky fight...but it kinda should.
Order66
Order66 - 1/12/2024, 8:32 AM
I would love to see echo come back in a supporting role in a movie.
Radders
Radders - 1/12/2024, 8:42 AM
Worst D+ show by a country mile
tRuckRogers46A
tRuckRogers46A - 1/12/2024, 8:52 AM
@Radders - oh no it isn't.

Secret Invasion or She Hulk wins that crown.
Radders
Radders - 1/15/2024, 8:38 AM
@tRuckRogers46A - Hmm, I'm not going to argue lol
MMFRESHSW2
MMFRESHSW2 - 1/12/2024, 8:51 AM
we dont care ...stick 2 da comic since your writers have no imagination
Nightwing1015
Nightwing1015 - 1/12/2024, 9:47 AM
I heard that this show was the first real attempt to emulate Netflix Marvel. It made it the only MCU thing I was actually interested in, but now that it's out can somebody tell me if they succeeded? Is it on Netflix level (DD, Jessica Jones, Punisher, etc?). Or is it even a good show at all that's worth watching?
MyCoolYoung
MyCoolYoung - 1/12/2024, 9:57 AM
@Nightwing1015 - honest question, can anyone really tell you that based upon your own sensibilities?
Variant
Variant - 1/12/2024, 10:15 AM
@Nightwing1015 - It has all the same blood and brutality the Netflix DD show did. Just keep in mind it's only 5 episodes so go in with realistic expectations. Overall the show was good and the positives heavily outweigh the negatives.

Here's my negative feedback:
- Some minor pacing issues
- There's a single corny moment in the last episode I won't detail to avoid spoilers
- Nitpicky bad acting from some of the supporting cast


Here's my positive feedback:
- Excellent fight scenes (and yes consistent with how badass the Netflix DD's were)
- Alaqua Cox did a fantastic job in this role. Being deaf, all of her acting has to be conducted through body language and facial expressions and she does so remarkably.
- The Native American lore they wove in was really cool
- Kingpin was a menace
- The supporting villains actually felt threatening instead of just being an obstacle
- Sets up future street level story arcs nicely
- Overall the story was short and sweet and gave us a little break from the multiverse shenanigans

Definitely worth watching. It's not on the level of WandaVision or Loki but it is certainly one of the better shows. But also, it's tonally way different so it's hard to compare.
RedFury
RedFury - 1/12/2024, 10:19 AM
@Nightwing1015 - to me, it wasnt on the level of the Netflix shows when it comes to that vibe. They tried, and it certainly feels inspired by them. But it doesn't have that true darkness to it. It still feels like an MCU property where they're pulling their punches just enough to exist in both realms.

It was an enjoyable enough show though, with some good characters and performances. It's not without its issues of course, but if you're looking for something to watch I say give it a go.
CerealKiller1
CerealKiller1 - 1/12/2024, 12:35 PM
I really hope Born Again delves into the snap/blip. We know from Echo that Daredevil and Fisk didn’t get snapped, so I’d love to know how that affected them. How haywire would Matts senses have gone with people disappearing around him? Did Foggy and Karen get snapped and now they’re all at different points in their lives? Could be a good reason to explain their absence in the show
AvalonX
AvalonX - 1/12/2024, 10:08 PM
This show was absolutely terrible. Because so many "its not bad" posts, I took a chance. This is a text book Marvel female show. It isn't intelligently written, the characters are idiots. There is of course the simpy Male sidekick and Kingpin is a shell of himself. He gullable, sentinmental and dumb decisions. The most offensive is that the writers of the show dont realize Maya is a bad person. She hurts people without remorse. Shes warned not to do things only to do them and have the exact consequences she was warned about happen.

Im doubling down on the absolute non athletic actress. She isnt convincing, shes slow and misses hers spots repeatedly. The worst thing is ...She cant act for shit. If you are doing a mostly sign language show, she has to have more than one puss on her face. It doesnt help that she looks 12 and the one face she does have is equivelent to a 16 year old whos phone you just took away.

Of course, there is girl boss shit everywhere. She takes on men twice her size without as much as a wrinkle. Even the DD fight is worse (originally I watched it on YT) but the way it ends is silly.

They assassinate Kingpin. He is not cunning or even motivated on his ultimate goal. The ending of this show is so bat shit stupid, it defies belief. Including what they reduce Kingpin to so they can elevate this piece of shit of a show.

***Spoilers***
The story begins showing the origin of her people who are some magical space indians living in some mystical cave (The isnt explained) but the cave collapses and they reincarnate into real people. The basically retell her origin, even using clips from Hawkeye.

I am reversing my position on the Daredevil fight. I originally agreed that I didnt think she girl powered him and he basically toyed with her but I only saw the YT clip. Its like her first mission and he shows up. Remember, this is peak DD when he is in full costume and able to dipatch groups of people on his own. He should have bodied her in two punches but prior to, the first guy who attacks her, she overpowers and cracks his neck. Thats the scene from the trailer. She then bodies a room full of dudes and DD shows up. At the end of the fight, he just leaves. Like Batman. No talk, no watever, just disappears. Kingpin confirms in the next scene "none of his men ever handled him like that" So It is total girl power bullshit. Another thing that bothers me is his men refer to him as Kingpin outloud which we know was not allowed in DD and this is the same time period. Terrible writing. Of course entering the mission, a security guard feels her up because you know ...men.

Another flahsback from Hawkeye which is jarring because shes so much thinner but whatever. I guess Im still a fat shamer.
Why does he think she will join him AFTER she shot him in the face?
Boy, I guess he healed up ok from being shot in the FN eye!

Hey Maya, you're a really shitty person but it turns out those space magic ancestors and your dead mother will just show up, shine some bullshit light and you're good. You're ancestors are healers and we all echo through you so all that killing, it doesnt matter!

And these space magic Indian ancestors heroes?? Well in the first episode, there are men there. But in the second episode, after they just materialize into regular people (which is never explained), they are playing a sport where one of the woman powers up to win the bullshit game. Yeah, we see where this is going.

So this show does really nothing in terms of a plot so lets just get to the end. As I mentioned. Kingpin wants Maya to join him. She says now so he kidnaps her family and shows up to this ceremony or whatever now that Maya has her costume that her Grandmother makes. She attempts to tell Maya about her history, how these magical ancestors show up and save her grandmother in child birth with her mother. Basically, they have whatever powers the plot needs them to have. This I guess is enough for Maya to decide to protect her people (from the very situation shes caused which put them in danger)

So now the final battle. Kingpin says some dumb things so its clear hes a bad guy but the ancestors show up but ONLY the woman and inhabit possess the bodies of the kidnapped family members. Its like Rey is all the Jedi bullshit. Maya never earns these powers, never has to practice them and of course, they have all differnt attributes. The Grandmother starts being able to launch grown men in the air. The possesed family makes short work of Kingpins men. The simpy dumb male side kick drives a monster truck over two vans filled with Kingpins armed men (wow, that was easy) and now we get to the most offensive part of the entire show.

Kingpin rushes Maya who stops him in his tracks with her magical light powers. She then somehow enters his subconcious or something when hes at the moment of grief (his father beating his mother) and we get a "Let the anger go" preach from Maya to him. This drives Kingpin to a sobbing crying mess which somehow defeats him. He runs into a van and just takes off after yelling what did you do to her. Which of course isn't explained.

End credit is a tease of him running for Mayor.

This show is TERRIBLE. The characters motivations are BS. Most of the supporting characters are there to be nice to Maya for no reason only for her to ignore them, shit on them and be overall unlikeable. The ancestors are a Macguffin. Its never explained what their actual origin is or why they have these gifts to begin with let alone how they can FN possess people granting them these gifts.

There isnt nearly as much fighting as the trailer implies. I think D'onofrio is the best part of the show, hes just give shit to work with. They try to convince you he has a soft spot for her but telling him no is somehow worse than shooting him in the face and he turns on her. Its absolutely stupid because the plot needs a final fight and to finish this idiotic ancestor plot.

They also try to incorporate some kind of signing thoughout the show but its not consistent. Some characters speak while signing, some don't. I'm not sure how MOST of the characters know how to sign but you can forgive that. It seems though that the actors probably had to learn so the pacing is messed up. When they have to talk to each other, its delayed and the emotion of the character just isnt right.

Alaqua Cox isn't a good actress. She just doesn't sell it. She doesn't have the screen presence to carry the show so it leaves the eye wandering to the much more experienced (and frankly better) actors. They have some native american actors you'll recognize and they all do ok. Its just the lack of any real plot lets them down. They have one goal, from the opening scene they want to get to wear shes garbed up and girl powers Kingpin to defeat. There are constant teases of these ancestors, if there is a through line its that. Yes, there is the plot of Maya tempted to join Kingpin but it doesnt sell because she just shot him in the god damn face.

Overall, its not the worst MCU show. Its is a total girl power shit show though and it didnt have to be. Its not like the Netflix shows just because they use the same mute colors to make it gritty. There is no drama, no suspense. Maya is never really in danger or allowed to pay the price for her own crimes. They make Kingpin the enemy when she does the same thing as he does including her own quest for power. The difference is, she never has to go through some arc to change her. Like I said earlier, she goes from this one motivation to the other in like 5 minutes. No conflict, no nothing. Just like no, im on this side now.

Terrible all the way around.

StSteven
StSteven - 1/13/2024, 10:30 PM
I just finished the season and, FWIW, I actually really liked it. Honestly I was prepared to not like it (at least in relation to other D+ shows), but that was, in retrospect, due to all the negativity surrounding it that I got (mostly from this site), which I really shouldn't have allowed to affect my pre-judgment of something that I hadn't seen nor had any REAL reason to think was going to suck. I mean, sure we only got a small taste of Echo in "Hawkeye", but it was enough for me to be interested in watching something that promised to explore her character, especially given the uniqueness of her character.

Then when I started watching the recent BTS about how serious Marvel was about making the Indigenous aspect correct, I was fairly hyped to watch it, especially as I'm an American married to a Chinese woman, and their culture is obviously very important to them (even though my wife is very "Americanized"). So I thought that maybe this would be something that I would enjoy (at least from a superhero MCU-building aspect), but also something that my wife and especially my 2 little girls would like and appreciate, if for no other reason that the respect for one's cultural heritage. But I wanted to screen it myself first, given its rating, before I watch it with them.

So after having finished it, I definitely think that it's something that they would enjoy (although we're going to have to fast-forward during the violent parts). I'm glad that the only real TV-MA stuff that was included was the violence and not that mixed with a lot of swearing, sex, etc., so aside from the violence aspect it seems pretty safe to watch. Which is good because in addition to the respect for one's heritage, the overall family aspect of it was really strong, and that's the part that I really liked as well and the part that would probably really resonate with my wife and 2 daughters. Plus, it's always a god message to little girls that even though you my have disadvantages or even disabilities, you can be whatever you want, even if what you want is to be a badass quasi-superhero.

Anyhow, that's just my take and just my opinion. And as they say, opinions are like assholes: everyone has one. 😊

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