EDITORIAL: 12 Rounds: Nolan vs Burton!

EDITORIAL: 12 Rounds: Nolan vs Burton!

Once and for all, who made the better Bat-movies?

Editorial Opinion
By RobGrizzly - May 20, 2011 08:05 PM EST
Filed Under: Batman

The Dark Knight Rises has begun shooting, and with that, Christopher Nolan has made history: He is the first director to helm more than two Bat-movies, completing what will be The Caped Crusader's first ever trilogy. If you're a Batman fan, these are very cool and exciting times.


But as much as we love what Chris has done with the character and his world, is this version truly the best interpretation of Batman? The best way to answer that is to pit him one-on-one against Tim Burton, the man who defined what Batman on Film would become. Like a great heavyweight fight, we're taking this 12 full rounds, awarding points in all the key categories of Batman lore. For argument's sake, I'm purposefully ignoring Joel Schumacher's horrible movies, and omitting the fantastic Animated Series, which neither the Nolan nor Burton movies can touch.

We'll be looking at "Batman" and "Batman Returns" collectively against "Batman Begins" and "The Dark Knight" as a whole. This is strictly based on comic adaptation, so 'filmic' material, like cinematography, fight/action scenes, and even music (Zimmer vs Elfman?), won't count. Unless we get a draw, in which case, these will be considered tie-breaking bonus categories. Maybe.
Okay, Ready?


ROUND 1: ORIGINS


As we know, the Birth of Batman is basically marked the night his parents were gunned down right in front of him as a child.


In Burton's "Batman", the scene is presented via flashback, with a dark, dream-like quality. The slo-mo is effective in provoking an ominous atmosphere of looming tragedy. Two big problems, though...First, there's a witness. The gunman is accompanied by another goon who flees. Second, the big one: The film implies it was The Joker himself as Jack Napier, who killed Batman's parents! Besides the fact that this is epically wrong, it also doesn't fit with the ages of the characters in the comics.

In "Batman Begins", the event is presented as a fully fleshed out scene, complete with actual dialogue from The parents to make us connect a bit more with the characters. Changing their night out from the cinema to a theater show is a minor deviation, but I was bothered a bit more by Thomas' "Don't be afraid" line and not just dying straight away. It works thematically, for the whole film, but it's still kinda weird to me.

POINT Winner: CHRIS NOLAN!

Not just because of the parent's death, but Batman Begins is a full-fledged origin movie, which none of the batman flicks explored in detail. Origins includes Bruce Wayne's globetrotting and training his mind and body. It's this that wins Nolan Round 1. By a mile.


ROUND 2: BATMAN'S LOOK



One of the coolest things about Batman is his costume. The idea that to strike fear in the hearts of criminals, he would use what frightened him: the bat. The cape, the cowl, the symbol- all as iconic as anything in pop culture.


Tim Burton's version basically follows the comics, with the yellow chest symbol, bright utility belt, and pronounced pointed ears. But fundamentally, it was pretty radical. The suit was conceptualized as full body armor, and I strongly believe that is the greatest influence his movies will leave on all others. Otherwise, Batman, might still be running around in grey/black spandex.

Nolan went more functional, and as what happens with time, they found a way for Bats to move better. Kevlar was a stroke of genius, and making everything from the memory fabric to the gauntlets, technical and realistic, it goes a long way to making me believe Batman COULD actually exist. This batman also crouches like in the comics, mimicking the gargoyles he blends in with atop Gotham. Nolan's greatest contribution will obviously be the ability to move his head in The Dark Knight.

This is a tough, close round!
POINT winner: TIM BURTON!

Since the beginning, superheroes were envisioned wearing tights. From the Superman shows and movies, to the many failed live-action attempts at JLA Marvel characters like Spiderman in the 70s, Tim Burton's Batman is the first time a superhero costume didn't look cheap, and every Bat-film following, even Nolan, owes something to what Burton's team did with the suit.

Besides, I am a personal fan of the stylized redesign in Batman Returns. It just looks cooler where Nolan's TDK Bat is too busy design-wise, and looks almost Robotic. Bale's raspy voice doesn't help the Batman image either.


ROUND 3: BRUCE WAYNE


Which is the alter-ego? Bruce Wayne is a facade. In his own mind, Batman became the dominant reality the moment his parents were killed in Crime Alley. But what must the public see?


Michael Keaton certainly has the brooding down. There is very little to his life outside of the cape and cowl. There are some scenes in Batman Returns where he is literally just sitting around until someone flashes a Bat-signal his way. But there is no doubt he doesn't exactly scream 'eligible bachelor'. Also, what was up with hanging upside down in the middle of the night in the first movie?

Lisp aside, Christian Bale is basically everything you could ask for in a Bruce Wayne. He's got the good looks, he plays up the playboy lifestyle, and there is more characterization and conflict for Bruce, and what he has decided to dedicate his life to through both Nolan films so far. These films are very good at putting us in Bruce's busy, upper-class lifestyle.

POINT Winner: CHRIS NOLAN!

It helps that Nolan also gave us the entrepreneurial aspect of Wayne and his family name- Philanthropy, bureaucracy, big business, and of course, Wayne Enterprises- all non-existent in Burton's movies. The closest Tim gets is a small meeting with Bruce Wayne and Max Shrek in Batman Returns. It should also be noted Wayne/Batman is described as 6'2", and Bale is closer in height than the 5'9" Keaton.


ROUND 4: LOVE INTERESTS


Bruce Wayne's tireless crusade doesn't leave much time for love, but there have still been ladies to come into his life and try to distract his heart.


Tim Burton used Vicky Vale in his first movie, and Selena Kyle in his sequel. Vale is a clear and obvious choice- vigilante crime fighting, and the journalist on the scene is a comic book staple. Catwoman was a natural progression for the sequel, as they have a lot in common, and she is the most famous of all Batman's loves. Burton does lose points for starting Ms Kyle as a nerdy secretary that is “resurrected” from the dead by nibbling cats. Huh?

Nolan's films have just had the one girl: Rachel Dawes. She isn't from the comics, but she is an important childhood friend of Bruce's and as a lawyer, also provides an “in” to the legal dealings of keeping Gotham justice. But with such great use of the other supporting players, its a bummer Nolan didn't go with someone from the comics as a love interest here. I always felt like having Ra's Al Ghul without Talia was a big missed opportunity in "Begins". Even revisiting The Joker in TDK was a great chance to bring in Harley Quinn for the first time. Not a love of Batman's, I know, but I'm just sayin. I love Harley.

POINTS Winner: TIM BURTON!

Personally, I'm not a big fan of inventing characters for adaptations that already have plenty to choose from. I'm even less a fan of recasting the same character, and breaking consistency. Points easily go to Tim Burton for sticking with women from the comics. Of course, TDKR will be the first time Nolan draws from the page for his own version of Selena Kyle, but Marion Cottilard is also here, and once again, will be playing someone made up.


ROUND 5: ALFRED


If there's one person besides Bruce Wayne that you can't make a Batman movie without, it's Alfred, closest ally and staunchest supporter.


Tim Burton's Alfred was quite literally simply a butler and valet, but he did provide good companionship and sage advice when Bruce needed it the most. He tells a warm fatherly story after dinner in "Batman", and provides ample warning towards the end of the film. However he also brings Vicky Vale to the Batcave, so that's a fail. His role is a bit smaller in "Returns", with his most memorable scene being that of bringing cold soup.

Sir Michael Cane is a more aggressive Alfred, capturing some of the weight that comes with supporting Bruce's crusade. He also shows wisdom and gives plenty of sound advice, but most significantly of all, this Alfred maintains the front of the Wayne family name while Bruce gallivants around town.

POINTS Winner: CHRIS NOLAN!

Michael Cane's has the insurmountable task of a character that is surprisingly hard to portray. Whereas Michael Gough was sort of “just the butler”, Michael Cane's is more capable- He plays the surrogate, father, but also seems ready to roll up his sleeves for the sake of whatever physical odd jobs may be needed . Be it mechanic or medic, Cane's Alfred seems more the Renaissance man required to serve Bruce AND Batman's needs, all the while never forgetting his place as an employee of Mr. Wayne.


ROUND 6: GADGETS & WEAPONS


If Batman is known for anything, it is his extensive arsenal of the best weapons and equipment of any crime-fighter ever created.


Throughout Tim Burton's run, we've seen the most use of Batman's premiere tool: the grapnel. Holstered to his belt, or used as a gun, Batman's grapnel has both been used offensively and as a means of quick exit. The 89 movie opens with Batman snaring goons with the bola. The films also shows gas pellets and a zipline. In Returns the remote-controlled Batarang debuts, and there's a glowing chemical he smashes on Catwoman. No idea what it is, but it looks like it hurts!

With all the tech hinged on Batman Begins, the movie is surprisingly light on the Bat-gadgets. The grapnel is used often here, same as in the earlier films, but there is also more use of the mini-batarangs, fashioned like ninja shuriken, and even a tracer in his boot heel that summons bats for assistance. It's in The Dark Knight were they go crazy. A hand cannon that shoots sticky bombs, his gauntlets now fire projectiles, a cool “sky-hook” scene in Honk Kong, and arm braces that can rip through vans!

POINTS Winner: CHRIS NOLAN!

Nolan goes the extra mile with Batman tech, emphasizing detective tools in TDK. Here he uses his ear microphone to monitor radios and calls throughout the city, a miniaturized drill for obtaining crime-scene samples, a device to measure radioactivity, other forensics tools, and sonar vision, which plays a key role in the final act.


ROUND 7: VEHICLES


Batman gets around in a lot of different ways, but his main transportation, The Batmobile, is one of the most iconic cars in pop culture.


Tim Burton's batmobile is a masterpiece. I want one. You want one. What else can I say? The first Batmovies use the BM6 model, a dragster with a jet engine, complete with hydraulic telescoping ramp for fast reverses. It's outfitted with machine guns, grenades, armor panels, side grapnels, and can even breakaway into 'missile' transport for narrow escapes.

Chris Nolan's “Tumbler” is a modified HMMWV, designed completely for functionality. It may not be easy on the eyes, but it's a stronger, muscle-based car designed for pulling, and can maneuver better than the old Batmobiles, especially making huge jumps. It's defining characteristics are mounted rockets, and stealth capability. It also births the Bat-Pod. Winning.

POINT Winner: TIM BURTON!

The closest in the comics to the Tumbler is maybe the Hummer Batman drove during the “No Man's Land” run. But I gotta go with Tim on this. Plain and simple his car leaves the better impression of the two, and that besides, his movies have also made use of the Batwing and Bat Ski-Boat, so I like more incorporation of different bat vehicles there.

Neck and Neck so far at the half-way point! Didn't think it'd be this close, did you?


ROUND 8: THE BATCAVE


A base of operations is essential for a crime-fighter these days, but nothing quite comes close to The Batcave. The cave is a direct extension of the Batman character


Tim Burton essentially gets the job done, featuring the cave in both his films. He's got the computer, the car turntable, and even a variety of secret passages to access it. Keaton's Bruce spends a decent amount of time in the Batcave, but it could stand to be a little more high tech- even for 1989.

Surprisingly, Chris Nolan has yet to deliver a full-fledged Batcave in any of his movies. The closest we get is in "Begins" we see how young Bruce finds it, and later, how he decides to use it. Unfortunately, there is no Batcave at all in "The Dark Knight". Wayne Manor is under reconstruction, so Bale's Bruce uses a makeshift empty space near his penthouse.
He still uses it as if it were the cave- crime lab and forensics tools are used to great effect. For the narrative the empty space is fine, but for a film highly regarded as the 'definitive' Batman movie, missing a lynchpin characteristic like The Batcave is a shame. If you want to take it even further, for a Batman film, there are no actual bats (the icon of the character) at all in TDK.

POINT Winner: TIM BURTON!

No contest here. Bruce's vaults of suits started to give way to requisite 'dress up' scenes in many superhero films that followed, and in "Returns" the cave sees pivotal use in helping to unravel The Penguin's plot. All Tim needed was to fill the lair with trophies in a 3rd film (a la the Giant Penny from the comics). Penguin's Rubber Ducky car? The Joker's Balloons?


ROUND 9: GOTHAM CITY


Gotham City is the worst place to live in America. It is distinctive for its Eastern riverside layout, urban legends and obvious Gothic architecture, prominent mostly in Gargoyles.


From "Pee Wee" to "Beetlejuice", Tim Burton went bigger than he ever had in his career when bringing Gotham to life. His was a stylized, timeless sort of New York City with endlessly tall skyscrapers. In Returns he took stylization even further with monolithic spires looming everywhere in the city. Burton's movies kind of have an on-set/in-studio feel, but also has a sense that it once was stronghold for industrial and economical growth.

Chris Nolan really opened up Batman's world, even taking his stories international and overseas for some portions. By using the real world, Batman's stage is on a much grander scale. Using the real-life city of Chicago as a backdrop may seem like a stroke of genius for many, but for me it was a no-brainer: Superman's Metropolis is obviously New York influenced, so Batman's Gotham couldn't be anything other than the city known for its infamous crime history- Chicago. How no one realized this before Chris Nolan came along is a mystery to me.

Another tough one. So close I want to make it a draw.
POINTS Winner: TIM BURTON!

I know this seems a shock. Nolan's real world setting is considered the single greatest aspect of his contribution to Batman. But it is also his handicap. Tim Burton has established a world in which ANY Bat-villain could theoretically exist. Considering Batman has the greatest rogues gallery in comics, this is basically the most important selling point at all for me when it comes to this franchise. I hate to think I couldn't see Mr. Freeze or Clayface in Nolan's-verse because “they just couldn't work.” As a Batman fan, those are never words you want to hear when you go to see these movies.


ROUND 10: COMMISSIONER GORDON


One of the few good cops on the right side of the law, Jim Gordon is inexplicably bound to Batman when it comes to rooting out crime in Gotham City.


Pat Hingle's Commissioner Gordon is closer to the 60s TV version. More of a caricature, a representation of the entire police force, which are too inept to handle crime in the city. Basically they need Batman because they suck. Gordon is hardly even in Batman Returns at all.

Gary Oldman (48 when Batman Begins came out) is a younger portrayal of Jim Gordon, and more active and defined. We actually follow his career growth into the role of commissioner. In "The Dark Knight" he steps up as one of the best supporting performances in a superhero movie ever. Gordon doesn't need Batman because he sucks, he needs Batman because he can't do it alone.

POINTS Winner: CHRIS NOLAN!

Landslide victory. Gordon isn't even a peripheral character in TDK, he's one of the leads. Throughout Nolan's films we see bits of his family life, and understand how his crusade parallels Batman's. The basis of their relationship, allies on opposite sides of the law, is perfectly handled. Bonus points for a more dynamic portrayal of GCPD all together. Corrupt cop Flass, and Det. Ramierez (who could have been Rene Montoya) make appearances.


ROUND 11: UNDERWORLD CRIME


Another key aspect to any Batman tale is the criminal element. This is the lifeblood of Batman comics, and those varying mob bosses and baddies show us the state that Gotham City is in when a Batman story starts.


"Batman" featured one prominent kingpin- Carl Grissom, played by Jack Palance. He is pretty standard fare, and narratively, is framework for which to model the Joker's origin around. Joker does end up eliminating other various bosses in the city, and even seedy cops like Lt. Ekhart, but organized crime isn't Batman's main concern here. "Batman Returns" introduced the evil tycoon Max Shrek. Played by Christopher Walken, this character is such a main antagonist to the story, he is essentially a 3rd villain.

"Batman Begins" has a ton of varying levels of baddies. Scraping the bottom with Joe Chill to the top of the food chain with Carmine Falcone, it is very clear the villainy Batman has to deal with outside of the main rogues. Victor Zsasz even makes a cameo! "The Dark Knight" delves even deeper, with new boss Maroni, Hong Kong's Lau, Gambol, Chechen, and a fun return by The Scarecrow- a series first.

POINTS Winner: CHRIS NOLAN!

Nolan's movies are completely structured around the criminal element. His films have the underworld weaved perfectly into both Ra's Al Ghul and The Joker's plots seamlessly. Reaching more, there are threats within Wayne Enterprises as well. Extortionists and blackmails go further to say Gotham corruption comes from the top as well as the bottom.


FINAL ROUND: THE JOKER


Preeminent among Batman's rogues, The Joker is one of comics' greatest villains, and likes to think himself the “comedy” to Batman's “tragedy”. This is a great category to cover because (until we see Catwoman) he is the only villain used by both directors (No, Harvey Dent does not count) and they are different enough for a juicy discussion. Arguably the most debatable topic when comparing Nolan and Tim Burton's movies, The Joker isn't a necessity for a Batman film, but his interpretation without a doubt defines any director's Batman universe.


It is in fact, Jack Nicholson who gets top billing in the original Batman, and the Oscar-winner was detrimental in even getting the film made. He continues to say The Joker is his favorite role he ever played, and he embodies a pretty direct, nearly perfect comic adaptation. This Joker comes complete with an arsenal of whimsical and deadly weapons: acid-squirting flower, electric hand buzzer, prop guns, breakaway hands, poison gas, wind-up teeth and more. A great touch and trademark of the character is leaving his victims with post-mordem smiles on their faces, creepy imagery matched only by Joker's own twisted grin. In some of the small detective work in the film, Bruce makes a point of telling us Joker has an affinity for art, science and chemistry as well.

Tim Burton's Batman decided to address Joker's origin, and while falling in a vat of chemicals and being permanently scarred is directly drawn from some comic versions, the movie invents his pre-Joker alias, Jack Napier, and his status as a mob goon. Making matters worse, Burton implies that it is Joker who killed Batman's parents! Worse still, is Burton's decision to kill him off at the end of the film. It may provide catharsis in a general audience way, but it misses the mark with the relationship between these two rivals. (Imagine if they killed Lex Luthor at the end of Superman)

Heath Ledger redefined The Joker for modern audiences, and his performance has been universally praised as nothing short of brilliant. He won a posthumous Academy Award for the role, a landmark for the genre, comics and superhero-films alike. The fact that he died before the The Dark Knight's release leaves an indelible aura around the role and the movie as a whole.

Nolan's Joker is played much more menacing. His backstory is never explained and his motivations aren't ever completely clear. This makes him much more mysterious and creepy; the type of unpredictable threat that even Batman can't figure out. It also closely ties to the concept when the character was created: “his crimes make sense to him and him alone.” The biggest changes are Joker's grungy hair, and scarred smile (adapted almost immediately for the comics). Instead of skin burned white, the joker's pale look is due to makeup smeared on his face. This is certainly disturbing imagery, but Heath comes closest to looking like his comic counterpart when wearing the trademark purple suit.

Nolan's Joker terrorizes Gotham City in a way larger than anyone could imagine, and almost breaks Batman's will to the point of hopelessness. He doesn't have much by way of gags, but he still plays sick mind games with people, including the pencil “trick”, the cell-phone bomb, most notably, the vandalized playing cards he leaves as clues. The biggest impact he leaves is killing love interest Rachel Dawes. This is about as close to “Death in the Family” as Nolan gets.

POINT Winner: (this'll kill me) TIM BURTON!

This is really hard, but as awesome as Ledger was, Nicholson's is a Joker that cackles and laughs maniacally and constantly- THE defining characteristic of the character on the page. This was so close a category, I had to go by this tiny detail to help choose the winner. Aside from weighing significantly more than the man (Joker is usually depicted as very thin and lean), Jack Nicholson is basically perfect. Yes, Heath Ledger's is scarier, but Jack Nicholson's is more ACCURATE as the Clown Prince of Crime.


So where does that leave us? After 12 rounds of all the most important things a Batman movie needs, Chris Nolan ended at 6 and Tim Burton ended at 6. A SPLIT DECISION! Damnit! Looks like a draw! I guess we'll continue to debate which of these universes is better until The Dark Knight Rises upon us. I suspect a proper Batcave, a new vehicle appearance (hopefully the Bat-Plane), and a more accurate Catwoman will help put Nolan over as champion, but for now, the debate continues on without a clear winner, in my book.
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FutureCBMHero
FutureCBMHero - 5/21/2011, 12:44 AM
Nice effort, I disagree here and there, and not just on preference, but also because some of your reasoning seems off. But I respect where you're at with it all.

My list without analysis.
1. Origins - Nolan
2. Suit - Nolan, but this is more of a draw
3. Bruce Wayne - Nolan
4. Love Interest - Burton....by a loooooooong shot
5. Alfred - Burton, and I love Caine, but Burton's all the way
6. Gadgets - Nolan
7. Batmobile - Burton (not for functionality like the suit, but bc it was soo cool)
8. Batcave - Burton...obviously
9. Gotham - Nolan
10. Gordon - Nolan
11. Organized Crime - Nolan
12. Joker - Burton, but 2 things, I believe Ledger's performance was better, and I do think the Joker is an absolute must for Batman Mythology.

So where did I tally here...
Burton-5
Nolan-7
LP4
LP4 - 5/21/2011, 3:18 AM
Very much a toss-up for me...
CBMfan001
CBMfan001 - 5/21/2011, 5:40 AM
well it will never be 6-6 because nolan's joker is the best!!!!
Weedbeater
Weedbeater - 5/21/2011, 7:59 AM
That's debatable^ though i do think jack and heath both did tremendously well jobs as the joker
superbatspiderman
superbatspiderman - 5/21/2011, 9:04 AM
The only Tim burton movie that was good was the original because Batman Returns sucked balls. Both of Chris Nolan's movies were fantastic and two of my favorite movies so Chris's movies win. As much as I loved Jack Nicholson's Joker I didn't think he was sinister enough but even though Heath Ledger's Joker didn't look like the comic character he portrayed the character perfectly.
daredevilfan
daredevilfan - 5/21/2011, 9:09 AM
1 nolan
2 burton
3 burton
4 burton
5 burton
6 nolan
7 burton
8 burton
9 burton
10 nolan
11 nolan
12 toss up
jbak368
jbak368 - 5/21/2011, 10:11 AM
I think you mean INSTRUMENTAL not DETRIMENTAL.
bungae
bungae - 5/21/2011, 2:25 PM
One thing never mentioned was one of the Burton Joker's most defining moments. When he kills Bob. Bob was with him from the very beginning, his right hand man and his only friend. In a split second he kills him with no feeling or remorse. True psychopath and the real joker is definately a pyschopath. Burton's joker all the way. Both were amazing though.
BobGarlen
BobGarlen - 5/21/2011, 5:12 PM
One you should've had was Characterization of the Batman. Which you have to give to Nolan because Burton's Batman physically kills while Nolan's allows the villains to fall on their own sword
MikkyJ
MikkyJ - 5/21/2011, 7:38 PM
Love the article. Great pictures and clips; interesting rationale.

In my own view, Nolan wins everything, except maybe in the "love interest" section--but that's more to do with the stories than with the directors. (TDKR will give us a Catwoman to evaluate alongside Burton's.)

One other thing: The recent Joker's motivations do make sense in the story. The script/dialogue lays it out clearly. He wants chaos.

And one thing about chaos: it's fair.
GillytheKid33
GillytheKid33 - 5/22/2011, 6:52 AM
Im going to side with @FCBMH on everything except for Alfred and The Batmobile. I think Caine nails it with every scene he's in for all the reasons you stated above. But to be honest I LOVE the Tumbler. I think its one of the most badass vehicles period and the fact that Bats is behind the wheel makes it that much sicker. While I do think Burtons Batmobile is the classic look, I personally, would rather be busting through walls in a tank. And plus, THE FREAKIN BATPOD CAME OUT OF THE TUMBLER! It gave birth for crying out loud! Win in my book.

But @GDSupes is right about the characterization of Bats. Nolan got the point across in both films that BATMAN DOES NOT KILL, and I'm pretty sure in Returns that Burtons Bat literally strap a bomb to one of Penguin's thugs and kicks him through a window only to walk away as it explodes. Not cool Burton. Really farked that one up.
GillytheKid33
GillytheKid33 - 5/22/2011, 6:59 AM
Oh and Heaths Joker was way more believable that Jacks. I forgot to mention that. Personally if I saw Nolans Joker on the street I would shit my pants and run away so i dont end up like Rach or the people on the boats. Burtons Joker was too silver age. Too many Jokes/puns. I mean it works clearly cause thats what the Joker is but I really wouldnt be that scared of Jacks Joker if we met up. I he couldnt even fight Bats. At least Heaths Joker fought him twice even if he was out matched (like he should be). Idk, Jacks Joker set the bar, but Heaths Joker set a new one.
LeeShard
LeeShard - 5/22/2011, 7:36 AM
Easily a TIE!

Easy, both Bat's are awesome!


Thumbs up man, good read!

OptimusBurgundyMaximus
OptimusBurgundyMaximus - 5/22/2011, 8:34 AM
Nicholson over Ledger ???

Why did i bother reading this
HAQ
HAQ - 5/22/2011, 9:00 AM
LMFAO Burton's Batman = for children, Nolan's Batman = adults. Nolan WINS.
Knightstalker
Knightstalker - 5/22/2011, 10:12 AM
I agree with you on most points but not all of them. Burton’s Batman was great and I still enjoy watching them. However, I have to disagree with you on a few points.

Vehicles- I’ve always stated that Batman can’t do what he needs to do in a fancy hot rod. The Tumbler makes far more sense and its origin is plausible.

Batcave- In case you missed it. The Batcave in Begins was a work in progress. Throughout the movie, we saw continued improvements being made. Remember, this is the beginning of Batman and his lair should reflect that. Moving the lair to the penthouse is direct from canon while BW lived there, particularly while the Wayne Manor was being rebuilt. Nolan’s was better. I’m sure in TDKR, we will see a Batcave worthy of Batman.

Gotham City-Burton’s gothic setting was just fine, but if you noticed, all of the action scenes revolved around a few select buildings, The Monarch Theater figures most prominently. Also, the realism of a modern city with a modern Batman really makes a big difference. The scenes in the Narrows showed Old Gotham very well, creating a balance between gothic and modern.

The Joker-Sorry, Nolan’s Joker was far superior to Nicholson’s in every way. You even made the case for that in your article. Just because Nicholson cackled his way through the movie doesn’t make him better.
Supersonicboobs
Supersonicboobs - 5/22/2011, 11:28 AM
TIM BURTON BATMAN SUCKED!!!!!...jack nicholson was a waste of time as joker!!

NOLAN WAS WAY BETTER!...made alot more sense,practical...more for adults and not campy/crappy like burton[except for catwoman}!
Mazoku
Mazoku - 5/22/2011, 2:57 PM
@HAQ

couldnt have said it better myself!!

Sometimes we get caught up in nostalgia from older films. Burtons original Batman was decent but you cant even compare it to Nolans films. Then when you bring Batman Returns into the argument... it becomes an easy decision. Batman Returns as a film lover is difficult to watch. Burtons Batman was intended for kids!
hatrick3
hatrick3 - 5/22/2011, 3:00 PM
In the Burton films, Batman kills. Shows a total lack of understanding for the character and what motivates him. Always ruined it for me.
SomCin
SomCin - 5/22/2011, 3:20 PM
Good read! Thanks! Jack and Ledger... man, it's too hard to pick!!
DocMartin09
DocMartin09 - 5/22/2011, 3:44 PM
I have to agree with SUPERBATSPIDERMAN, Batman Returns sucked. but here is what I see:
1. Origins - Nolan
2. Suit - Burton (Nolans suits are better but Burton was working from scratch and
came up with something completely original at the time.)
3. Bruce Wayne - Nolan
4. Love Interest - Burton
5. Alfred - Nolan...no contest
6. Gadgets - Nolan
7. Batmobile - Burton
8. Batcave - Burton
9. Gotham - Nolan
10. Gordon - Nolan
11. Organized Crime - Nolan
12. Joker - Nolan
TheBatman938865
TheBatman938865 - 5/22/2011, 7:51 PM
Nolan wins every round....but I'll give you the love interest...hopefully that will change with TDKR...the reason Joker is the best...will come on..the way they showed him in Burton's was kind of lame compared to Nolan's Joker....Nolan's was actually fearless and a complete psycho where as Burton's was cool but then turned into a pussy.example why Nolan wins: Joker goes after Batman in the end hitting him with a pipe and very vicious about it and then Batman threw him down the building and Joker was laughing his ass off....but Burton's one he fell off the building screaming like a bitch (yes, i know we would to...but if joker was real he wouldn't do that) lol oh and Joker did not have a name! he came out of nowhere! so Nolan wins big time and the suit in BB TDK rocks because like you pointed out he does what Batman does in the comics...but he should have won this round mainly because of his cape...it was freaking awesome! and the cowl was so much more badass in BB....TDK...it was cool but he needed a bigger neck lol
RunDTC
RunDTC - 5/22/2011, 8:46 PM
good article. I'd say:
1. Nolan
2. Burton
3. Nolan
4. Burton
5. Nolan
6. Nolan
7. Nolan
8. Burton
9. Nolan
10. Nolan
11. Nolan
12. Nolan

couldn't the tie-breaker be Penguin from "Returns" vs. Two-Face from "TDK". you know, a 2nd film, second villain matchup.

hated how you ended it though. you basically said that because Nicholson laughed a little bit more (and he never said anything funny. Ledger did) that he was better? half the time, he had his bleached face covered in make-up! Jack Nicholson was NOT the Joker! he was Al Capone in a purple suit with make-up. Ledger was a mix of the modern comics Joker, with a little modern terrorist thrown in. he may very well be crazy. he kills anyone at will. he was the JOKER! and if no one agrees with me, watch these 2 videos and tell me I'm wrong:

http://youtu.be/9tgxIWgJ_DE

http://youtu.be/hJ6-ekvjOQw

sorry I couldn't embed them
thecanadian
thecanadian - 5/24/2011, 5:15 AM
Great article. Well thought of. I might be biased as I love the Nolan version better... got dragged to watch a marathon of old batman film before we went and saw BB. Just to compare my view with yours

1. Origins - I definitely agree that Nolan wins this one for exploring it.
2. Batman costume - Also agree that ought to go to Burton for revolutionizing superhero costumes.
3. Bruce Wayne - Agree. It's definitely Nolan's version
4. Love Interest - Although Nolan tried. Bale definitely didn't have much chemistry with either of his female co-stars. Agree that it's Burton by a long stretch
5. Alfred - Agree that Caine wins it for Nolan. You can actually relate to the man's exasperation at the things his 'ward' does and see how much of a patient guardian he is to Bruce Wayne as well
6. Gadgets - Agree that it's Nolan.
7. Bat Mobile - Definitely a tough choice. I'd agree with you that Burton wins by a hairline mainly because it does look like a bat mobile and not some generic high-tech vehicle that could have been used for any other movie
8. Cave - I agree that it's Burton
9. Gotham - Agree that Burton wins it too because his Gotham just feels darker
10. Gordon - Agree that Nolan's version is a more fleshed out Gordon
11. Crime Bosses - Agree with you here again.

12. Joker - This is where I disagree with you. Ledger's joker is Batman's dark mirror and thus you can see why the guy's Batman's greatest nemesis. Nolan's version gave a more accurate depiction of the Joker's relationship with Batman. The Joker is to Batman as Lex Luthor is to Superman. Someone who can get inside Batman and truly shake Batman right into the core. Ledger's joker truly came close to making Batman lose his resolve - that's what makes him dangerous beyond all the killings and psychotic behavior. Therefore essentially more accurately depicts who the Joker is to Batman

Nolan 7, Burton 5
DarthAsriel
DarthAsriel - 5/31/2011, 4:24 PM
1)Origin: Nolan. Even though it was The Mark of Zorro, not some Opera. And I really hate the whole Batman is afraid of bats. The Bat motif comes from the answer to his prayer for something to inspire fear. The bat comes through the study window. And Bruce embraces the idea. But the Joker killing batman's parents is just wrong.

2)Batman Costume: Burton. Its the original. Every costume since has been a variation of the design that Burton and Co. came up with. Bale's is not bad, but it comes after years of work and research. Burton took us out of the Spandex era and we've never looked back.

3)Bruce Wayne: Nolan. While I like that Burton goes to great lengths to show us how damaged Bruce truly is. And believe me he is. It is also the only aspect he shows. Nolan gives us the playboy front as well as the damaged kid. Although not damaged enough. Nolan's Bruce is more well rounded.

4)Love Interest: Burton. Not even close. Burton used actual characters. Rachel was annoying at best. Plus the scene in Returns where Bruce and Selina discover each others secret is a classic.

5)Alfred: Nolan. As far as performance goes this is a tie. Both Gough and Caine play the surrogate father/mentor role well. But Caine is given far more to do and more screen time to do it. But Michael Gough will never be forgotten.

6)Gagdets: Nolan. Burton used the grappling hook. Nolan gave us Batarangs, sticky bombs, sonar vision, gliding cape. He presented the total package.

7)Batmobile: Burton. Not even a contest. This is the car everyone wants. It's an icon as much as the man himself. Yes, it's probably not functional but who cares. It looked cool and if they were selling them we would all be in line. Plus the Tumbler was too clunky. And the "Stealth Mode" the thing is bigger than a triceratops! How does it disappear because he turns off the lights?
8)Batcave: Burton. Short of the giant penny, t-Rex, and the Robin memorial Burton gave us a fully realized cave. Although to be fair Nolan still has one movie to catch up so we'll see.

9)Gotham: Burton. Not even close. Burtons's Noir take has influenced all of the Batman mediums. The animated universe used it. The comics changed Gotham to be more of a Noir 40's look and feel in Batman Destroyer. The police use Zepplins in Gotham for crying out loud in the comics! Nolan's is just generic U.S. City #5. Nothing makes it stand out.

10)Gordon: Nolan. Not even close. His Gordon is actually the character we know and love from the comics. We get to see this partnership develop over time. Plus it's Gary frackin Oldman.

11)Crime Bosses: Nolan. Nolan gave us Flass, Maroni, Falcone. He gave us a who's who of the pre Long Halloween Gotham. This one is a no brainer.

12)Joker: Tie. I agree with the article on this one. And as a comic fan it's an easy call. Both portrayed different aspects of the character. Nicholson is closer to the Clown Prince or Crime. This is the weird crazy guy who tried to copyright fish! The laughing gas, acid spitting flower these are his trademarks. Ledger is closer to the Ace of Knaves. The version who beat Jason Todd to death with a crowbar. The guy who shot Barbara Gordon and paralyzed her. Same character different sides of his personality.
RobGrizzly
RobGrizzly - 6/9/2011, 5:05 PM
Damn, these are some awesome responses! And some good points are being brought up! Thanks everyone
WatchfulGaurdain
WatchfulGaurdain - 7/23/2012, 11:00 AM
1. Origins - Nolan
2. Suit - Nolan (Looks better, functions better, no lame yellow symbol on his chest. Its perfect!)
3. Bruce Wayne - Nolan
4. Love Interest - Nolan
5. Alfred - Nolan (Michael Caine. That is all.)
6. Gadgets - Nolan
7. Batmobile - Nolan (I could destory all other "Batmobiles" in my sweet ass Tumbler! There aren't any stupid bat wings on it, it shoots out the Bat pod for christ's sakes! )
8. Batcave - Nolan
9. Gotham - Nolan (It's not from the mind of Tim Burton. That's good enough for me.)
10. Gordon - Nolan (He's actually is a central character!)
11. Organized Crime - Nolan
12. Joker - Nolan "jack NEVER made me afraid of him.
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