EDITORIAL: Should The Nazis Appear In Captain America: The First Avenger?

EDITORIAL: Should The Nazis Appear In Captain America: The First Avenger?

The answer may seem like an obvious one but past information and the pictures released this week seem to hint that HYDRA will take their place! Hit the jump for my in-depth take on this and to cast your vote...

Editorial Opinion
By JoshWilding - Oct 30, 2010 01:10 PM EST
Filed Under: Captain America
Source: Josh Wilding

As many of you already know, I'm not American. However, even I can appreciate that Captain America was a symbol created to represent everything great about the United States. As IGN point out in a recent article, "Steve Rogers is walking proof that anyone can become a great and powerful leader. He may be blond-haired and white of skin, but he fights for justice across all racial and ethnic boundaries. And if that sometimes puts him at odds with the very government he fights to uphold, so be it." I think it’s worth pointing out that I personally believe that Marvel WILL include them in the movie but below I take a step back and try to weigh up both the pros and cons of including the Nazis in Captain America: The First Avenger.



Even today, the Nazis are considered to be the embodiment of evil and who could possibly imagine an enemy more worthy than them for Steve Rogers to take on? Removing them would not only be a silly change to history, but it would also be more than a little insulting to those that sacrificed their lives in real life, for the Nazis to be replaced by a fictional group of comic book villains. Maybe that's a slightly silly thing to say as this is of course a COMIC BOOK movie, but omitting the Nazis is borderline ridiculous in a WWII movie and could easily backfire on Marvel Studios. Back in the 1940's, the first cover of a Captain America comic actually depicted him punching Adolf Hitler. If it ain't broke...

Making HYDRA a separate entity to the Nazi party makes for some very interesting story possibilities. As we've already seen in the pictures of the motorbikes and submarine, their tech is very advanced for the time and making them the main villains would make them appear more like a poor mans version of the Nazis but with hard to believe weapons that might cause most to feel like the movie loses a big dose of realism. However, making them an offshoot and experimental part of the Nazis is far more believable. It makes for a "What If?" type of situation that would engage audiences in the sense that something like that could have actually happened had history gone a little differently.



On the other hand, would it really matter if the Nazis were to become HYDRA in this fictional version of the Marvel Universe? All this involves is changing the name and logos on a few flags as depicted in that recently released image of Hugo Weaving (The Red Skull) in a HYDRA uniform. Although I'm sure we'll see Cap take on plenty of soldiers on the battlefield, I would imagine that it'll be HYDRA that he'll spend 99% of the movie fighting them. In fact, Marvel could easily get away with just a quick meeting between the Skull and Hitler or a brief scene featuring them. If for some reason Marvel have decided not to include them in the movie, then there are ways in which they could effectively skirt around them by keeping them in the background with HYDRA at the forefront.

It’s worth remembering that Marvel is now owned by Disney. Captain America will undoubtedly be a PG-13. Will they really want to fill a "family movie" with the Nazis? They were reluctant to tackle Tony Stark's alcoholism in Iron Man 2 for that very reason. Although it wouldn't be necessary to show some of the more upsetting things that they were responsible for during the war, their addition might pit some people off from taking their kids to see it. After all, the simple fact that the movie is set during the 1940's runs the risk of alienating anyone who doesn't enjoy that genre of movies and Captain America is probably going to be a tough concept to sell these days anyway, without the added complications of including the Nazis.

In my opinion, I think that the Nazis are an essential addition to this movie. While in theory it might seem acceptable to rebrand the Nazis as HYDRA in the Marvel cinematic universe, this will surely cheapen and lessen the threat of the villains to the average movie goer! Why? Well, you don't need to have ever read a comic book to appreciate just how great a threat the Nazi party would be for Captain America to take on. Calling them HYDRA removes that weight and in my eyes would lessen the importance of why Steve Rogers decided to try and join the Army in the first place. Although I can appreciate why Marvel might choose to minimise their involvement in the movie, removing them entirely would be a mistake for all the reasons above and more. What do you think? Be sure to share your thoughts in the usual place, and thanks for reading!






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LEEE777
LEEE777 - 10/30/2010, 1:13 PM
YES........... it will be kinda sh1T if their not in it, being WORLD WAR II and all lol!!!




Cool stuff @ JOSH!
marvel72
marvel72 - 10/30/2010, 1:14 PM
of course they should,who do you thing the english went up against during world war 2 ? it definetly wasn't hydra.

we want the nazis & hydra.
dbapz
dbapz - 10/30/2010, 1:15 PM
doesn't RDJ mention the nazi's in iron man 1
TheSkindo
TheSkindo - 10/30/2010, 1:18 PM
Indiana Jones had Nazis...So why not?
jordomac
jordomac - 10/30/2010, 1:20 PM
yeah. and they should have steve punch hitler in the face
DCMarvelFreshman
DCMarvelFreshman - 10/30/2010, 1:21 PM
Great editorial write up Josh! I think we have nothing to worry about Nazis not being featured being that In the EW article, it said that Red Skull created HYDRA to overthrow Hitler and conquer the world.

So what I could assume from this is, Captain America, Red Skull & HYDRA will be an underground secret in WW2 history.
thatiscrazy
thatiscrazy - 10/30/2010, 1:22 PM
Should be there or at leaset mentioned. I think no mention at all would take something away.
VenomIsOnMyRibs
VenomIsOnMyRibs - 10/30/2010, 1:25 PM
Its cool that Disney owns Marvel now, its certainly gives Marvel a lot more power in the movie industry as well as other forms of media. Why is it though that Disney feels they need to avoid real life issues such as Stark's alcoholism or the fact that the Nazi party was evil and was real? WW2 happened, Nazi's were real and they were bad, people got killed, soldiers of all the allied nations sacrificed their lives for a good cause, let Cap. embody that cause and fight the Nazi bastards.

The whole "family film" thing can still be respected, censoring children from Nazi's really doesn't do anything. In fact its just plain stupid.
Kuffs
Kuffs - 10/30/2010, 1:28 PM
I don't see any point in making the movie taking place in the 1940's if the Nazi aren't present.

I'm pretty confiedent the nazi's will appear, why else using the world war II setting?
If they only going to use hydra, the movie could had just as well take place in the 60's or whatever.


JoshWilding
JoshWilding - 10/30/2010, 1:31 PM
Thanks guys! :) I too am confident that the Nazis will appear in the movie, but thought it might be interesting to take a step back and examine just how likely that is. As I've said above, my guess is that they will be there, but in a limited capacity with HYDRA taking their place as Captain America's main enemy throughout.
Set2Fallfirst
Set2Fallfirst - 10/30/2010, 1:37 PM
@joshw I think they will because in Iron Man 1 and 2 They talk about how Howard Stark help defeat the Nazi's and so far Marvel's continuity is pretty right on so I doubt it I bet were only seeing moments of hydra because maybe Cap is in a special branch that is chasing down "Hitlers Hydra unit" Or they talk about how Red Skull has done his own thing "hydra" idk im crossing my fingers
SentinelofLiberty
SentinelofLiberty - 10/30/2010, 1:39 PM
I agree with this last comment, Josh. I really see what makes the most sense is that the Super Soldier project is created in direct response to intelligence gathered showing that Hydra (and RS) have something much more nefarious planned than even Hitler and the Nazis realize. Or if not more nefarious, maybe the Allied intelligence sources learn that Hydra is more powerful and advanced than Hitler and his goons. So Steve is the first (and only) soldier created to battle Hydra, while the "regular" Allied and Axis armies fight each other?
NerdRage
NerdRage - 10/30/2010, 1:41 PM
YES!!!!!!!! Of course. Hydra is not the same as Nazi. Two different organizations. Thats like asking, "would it really matter if Captain America fought along side US Army Soldiers or should we just call them all SHIELD agents?" Honestly, it sounds ridiculous.
NerdRage
NerdRage - 10/30/2010, 1:43 PM
Oh, and did we watch the same movie? Just because nobody had a line that said, "Gee Tony, you are an alcoholic." doesn't mean the subject was avoided. It was obvious he was drinking ALL THE TIME.
Hawksblueyes
Hawksblueyes - 10/30/2010, 1:43 PM
Excellent editorial Josh. Well said.

As for people not wanting to take their children to see a film that centered around Hitler and the Nazi Party, I can beleive it's probably true of many parents and that's a shame.

There were millions of people during that period that would give just about anything they could ever possibly have to have not "witnessed" or "suffered" what they did. For people today to not want to expose their children to a harsh reality that not only happened but has happened before and since to varying degrees, is wrong IMO. The phrase history repeats itself could not be more true.

It's best to learn at a young age all about these type of events and how they started in order to recognise them before they ever have a chance to get that fair again.
RockNRollCC
RockNRollCC - 10/30/2010, 1:44 PM
yes they must appear. It wouldnt be a true period piece without them Nazi bastards.
Speaking of that, The Basterds should make a cameo lol
Inglorious Basterds Pictures, Images and Photos
Inglorious Basterds Pictures, Images and Photos

and im curious, how is it every time LEEE makes a comment, Deadpool is almost always the one right after his? o.0

just curious :P
HULK2099
HULK2099 - 10/30/2010, 1:49 PM
no nazis, they will ruin it
deathoncredit
deathoncredit - 10/30/2010, 1:55 PM
I don't really care either way. As long as they don't change history too much and change the Nazis to Soviets or Terrorists (yeah, I know that Cap has fought both, but that's not the point).

On another note, I'm not a comic reader, just a fan of the movies. Could anyone tell me if Hydra is a branch of the Nazi military in the comics, or if it's something entirely different?
jjmeylar
jjmeylar - 10/30/2010, 1:55 PM
They need Nazis in it for a little bit. Mainly Hitler. They need to show him in there telling the Red Skull to start HYDRA or something. I'd love to see Steve punch Hitler in the face.
Luigi
Luigi - 10/30/2010, 2:03 PM
Cap should be doing one thing and one thing only, killin NATSEES!! Nazis being replaced by Snake Eyes clones would be ridiculous, especially to non comic book readers.
skidz
skidz - 10/30/2010, 2:10 PM
I guess somebody missed something, Johann Schmidt (in this movie) was an officer in the SS and a weapons designer for the Nazi's. He created Hydra because he had no respect for and despised Hitler. Joe Jonston said in an interview during SDCC that the movie takes place during the Battle of Britain, which was against the Nazi airforce. So, they do play a part somehow.
MichaelEsquire
MichaelEsquire - 10/30/2010, 2:10 PM
Lest we forget that the Nazis were villains in another Disney film, The Rocketeer, directed by none other than Joe Johnston! It all come full circle.
BrotherQStark
BrotherQStark - 10/30/2010, 2:12 PM
It would make sense, I would want to see a superhero kill those racist bastards
LEEE777
LEEE777 - 10/30/2010, 2:21 PM
Rock @ I'm curious too, what are you implying lol?

I was also called CaptainAmerica once and look how that turned out lol! ; P


2 be honest, as for the movie CAP AMERICA, its DISNEY... it could mean no no, whatever's been mentioned b4!??

I hope to god that ain't the case tho and DISNEY has balls! : P

Even THE ROCKETEER had damn Nazi's!
Hawksblueyes
Hawksblueyes - 10/30/2010, 2:22 PM
Wesley: Very good point Sir!
UnfriendlySpidey
UnfriendlySpidey - 10/30/2010, 2:25 PM
Nice article @Josh!! I'll put it this way- its just another No Helmet scare...we will have Nazi's in this flick haha!
Curmudgeon
Curmudgeon - 10/30/2010, 2:42 PM
Anyone remember this article? It's the one about the VE-Day filming.

http://www.comicbookmovie.com/fansites/MarvelFreshman/news/?a=21799

Jazzman pointed out in that comments section that the newspaper being held by the person in the crowd had been altered in layout in a large way.

BUT... here's the thing... that paper, altered as it was, still clearly kept the phrase "fanatical Nazis" in it's text.

Photobucket

Does that mean we'll definitely SEE any Nazi's the in the film? Well, no... but in this day and age of easter egg hunters, of people who pour over every detail looking for clues, I would hardly think they'd leave such a thing in something they redesigned, if they were trying to "rewrite history" or somesuch nonsense.
nld3
nld3 - 10/30/2010, 2:53 PM
Hydra reminds me of the real Thule Society which helped Hitlers rise to power.
JoshWilding
JoshWilding - 10/30/2010, 3:04 PM
Good points all round guys! Personally, I think it would be fantastic to have Captain America punch Hitler in the movie. The actual Hitler might be a bit of a stretch, but it would be a great Easter Egg for them to make it a part of a USO newsreel - a scene with Cap (in the cheesy USO gear) being told to punch an actor dressed as Hitler would be a great addition to the movie IMO! :P

No Nazis wouldnt ruin the movie for me, but it would be a HUGE mistake. My grandfather fought them on the beaches of Normandy on D-Day, so why should Marvel gloss over that with a fictional organisation like HYDRA? It's a WWII movie and I see no reason why they'd need to censor it to that extent because of the PG-13 rating. I think they'll be there alright but not for more than a few minutes...which seems ridiculous to me!
GuineaPirate
GuineaPirate - 10/30/2010, 3:13 PM
@frogsplash45 *fist bump*
JoshWilding
JoshWilding - 10/30/2010, 3:24 PM
frogsplash45: Dude, I never even saw your comment and have no clue where it went! I corrected that mistake (along with several other caused by the auto correct on my iPhone - what I wrote this article on) just after posting it. I never delete a comment unless it's from a troll or offensive in some way...thanks for the spell check either way though, lol!
Killuminatic
Killuminatic - 10/30/2010, 3:40 PM
Anyone remember that 2003 Martial Arts film Bulletproof Monk with Chow Yun-Fat and Seann William Scott? Well that film was a PG-13 but it still managed to feature the Nazis as the main villains!!! If Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer can do it with that, why can't Marvel (Disney) do it with this? I mean look. it's Captain America, and he's meant to be iconic and a person who captured the hearts of everyone during those times, If he can't do this in reality during the films release, what good will it do if he only fights fictional villains?
Killuminatic
Killuminatic - 10/30/2010, 3:41 PM
Oh and not to forget Indy. For god sakes even Indiana Jones featured Nazis!!!!!!!!!
ThePhantom832
ThePhantom832 - 10/30/2010, 4:01 PM
Cap was first and foremost a man who wanted to be a soldier in the US ARMY, to fight the enemy of that war the GERMANS, that is what history says of WWII, the allies vs the axis powers, NAZI, was the political party Hitler belonged to, somehow that point is getting lost in the shuffle,
ThePhantom832
ThePhantom832 - 10/30/2010, 4:05 PM
also the most of Hitlers staff officers belonged to the Nazi party as well, and they all ended up being called Nazi's because of that
LightningArmour
LightningArmour - 10/30/2010, 4:11 PM
Seriously, dick move man.
You're being a real ass about this.
http://comicbookmovie.com/captain_america/news/?a=23654
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