UPDATE: Will Captain America be fighting Nazis' in his upcoming movie?

UPDATE: Will Captain America be fighting Nazis' in his upcoming movie?

At first it seems like a silly question, yet all the evidence so far keeps saying otherwise.

Editorial Opinion
By LightningArmour - Oct 07, 2010 07:10 PM EST
Filed Under: Captain America

Before I begin I'd just like to note that all of this is complete speculation. I have no definitive proof of any claims I make in this article.

At this point I'm sure you're all thinking "well of course there will be Nazis' in the Captain America movie, how could you tell Captain America's story without Nazis'?"
And you'd be right. It would be downright imbecilic to make a Captain America movie, set IN World War II without having Nazi Germany as the antagonists.
And that, true believers is what I am here to discuss.

At first, the thought that the film may exclude Nazis' never once crossed my mind. I mean it's a WW2 movie. Of course there'll be Nazis, right?
It wasn't until the screenshots of "Captain America: Super Soldier" were released that I began to have my doubts.

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As you can see, Cap is in a room adorned with what appear to be typical Nazi banners except the Swastika has been replaced with the HYDRA symbol.
This could be easily explained by saying that he's in a HYDRA facility, of course. The fact that the flags bear such a striking resemblance to the banners Germany used back in the day raises some suspicion.
At this point, I began to realize that not only does the game seem to be apparently devoid of Nazis. Of all the (admittedly few) images we've seen from the movie, there has yet to be any sign of Nazis' there either.
Both images of the bikes and the car from the chase scene show the vehicles and soldiers to again bear the HYDRA logo, not the Swastika, same with the more recent images of the submarine and jet skis.
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Now as I've said, these are the only images we have of the movie. It's not a lot to confirm or deny my claims, especially seeing as we've yet to see anything involving the actual war. Again, this may just be my paranoia speaking.
As far as I'm aware, there hasn't even been any official statement from the filmmakers that the Nazis will indeed be the enemies in this film. Of course, it seems like something that would go without saying, but that also has me worried.

Finally, the thing that has me most convinced that we may not be seeing Nazis in the Captain America Film came from the Micro Episodes of "The Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes" featuring Captain America.
They HAVE completely replaced Nazi Germany with HYDRA.
Now where I can understand their wanting to keep Nazi imagery out of a children's show, this bothers me. This cartoon seems so far to be one giant advertisement for the live action Avengers movies given the numerous similarities.
And as you can see, again, the Swastika has been replaced with the HYDRA logo. They even refer to the Allies as fighting HYDRA forces, not Nazi or even Axis forces in the cartoon.
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As I have said, I can see why they would do so for a cartoon. It doesn't necessarily mean that they would do it in the film. The seed of doubt has been planted, and the lurking suspicion won't leave my mind.

And now I shall close by saying that if they do indeed end up replacing the Nazis with HYDRA in "Captain America: The First Avenger," it would be completely outrageous. I don't think I could respect that kind of needless censorship, and mockery of history.
So here's hoping that my theories are unfounded, and I'm completely wrong.

UPDATE:
And now we even have this official image of Red Skull from the film itself, adorned, not with a Nazi Swastika, but yet again with the HYDRA logo.
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While apparently the article in question does in fact make mention of Nazis being in the film, I still have my doubts as to how prominent they will be, and it still seems likely that they will be largely ignored so that HYDRA can be the primary antagonists, and Captain Amrica may yet not fight any actual Nazis.

I hate to say it, true believers, but I think my suspicions have been all but confirmed, and, one way or another, we may be getting a watered down and pussified Captain America movie.
Which really saddens me, because otherwise, this is shaping up to look like possibly Marvel's best live action film to date.

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ButtNakedSmurf
ButtNakedSmurf - 10/7/2010, 8:14 PM
the game isnt connected to the movie so ya there will be nazis
marvelguy
marvelguy - 10/7/2010, 8:38 PM
I haven't seen the cartoons or the game. It looks like there will be Nazis and they have overly censored by using the Hydra symbol instead of the Nazi cross.

Good old Hollywood! They are so sure what is right for the public that they are continually inaccurate.

They should re-edit "Schindler's List," and put Hydra symbols throughout.
LightningArmour
LightningArmour - 10/7/2010, 8:41 PM
Not according to the IGN article.
"Gage wrote his original story for Captain America: Super Soldier so that the setting exists within the same world as the upcoming movie of the same name, but he infused the game with immersive twists designed to enhance gameplay with all-new cinematic action sequences. "
Curmudgeon
Curmudgeon - 10/7/2010, 9:28 PM
As far as I've heard, Hydra is described in the movie as an offshoot of the Nazis.

But including a real, evil organization that killed millions of real people... for the purposes of some silly kids cartoon and video game?

That's just insensitive.
TheDarqueOne
TheDarqueOne - 10/7/2010, 9:30 PM
LightningArmour you have a very suspicious mind. But I do see your point. Hard to see them trying that with a live action movie but Hollywood has done dumber things.





Ever wanted to be your favorite Character? Interest Check


LightningArmour
LightningArmour - 10/7/2010, 9:59 PM
"But including a real, evil organization that killed millions of real people... for the purposes of some silly kids cartoon and video game?

That's just insensitive."

How is that any more insensetive than mockingly pretending that the Nazis' weren't real and that stuff didn't happen, and replacing them with some goofs in green jumpsuits?

And also, insensetive to whom? Who exactly would they be offending by having Nazis'?

Indiana Jones had Nazis', countless videogames feature Nazis' as the bad guys.
Hell, even the Justice League cartoon had a few episodes where they went back in time to World War 2. They even showed Hitler cryogenically frozen, but in this Avengers cartoon, they're just pretendig as if none of that stuff ever existed. It's needless censorship, and it's kind of a slap to the face of actual world history.
LightningArmour
LightningArmour - 10/7/2010, 11:01 PM
My pain will be eased once I see some Swastikas.

Also, I don't like how much they're tying these movies together with intersecting plots and whatnot.
I prefered it when they were just doing cameos and brief mentions.
Curmudgeon
Curmudgeon - 10/8/2010, 12:05 AM
You cite Justice League, but guess what?

"In footage of both before and after Savage's takeover, the swastika is absent from all German personnel, vehicles and equipment; this was likely due to the show's TV-Y7-FV rating, which forbids the use of the symbol."

Justice League didn't use the Swastika either. And I'm pretty sure that show never called them Nazi's either -- just Germans.

The thing is, and the thing I think you're missing, is that by including a real group like the Nazis in a children's show, it desensitizes kids to the actual horror of what the Nazi's stood for. They'd think that "oh, this is just another fictional group of bad guys like the Legion of Doom or the Brotherhood of Mutants."

It's the same reason why any and all Indiana Jones toys, including the Lego video game, are totally devoid of Nazi mentions. Those characters are all described as "Enemies".

It would simply be taking the subject matter FAR too lightly. Those monsters did real horrible things, and their victims and the families of their victims deserve better than to have those horrors trivialized by some stupid cartoon show.
LightningArmour
LightningArmour - 10/8/2010, 12:24 AM
I know that they didn't show the Swastika in Justice League, but they did depict them as actually being Nazis', whereas in the Avenger show they're just completely disregarding that and saying it was all HYDRA.

And it's easy to differentiate them from the goofy supervillains and stuff simly by showing them as actual soldiers and stuff, and not have them in silly jumpsuits, once again like the Avengers toon is doing.

And really it's not like Nazis' are featured frequently in childrens shows, but if you're going through the trouble of having them, then why just turn around and slap a smiley face sticker on it?

And like I said earlier, I can understand why they're censoring that stuff in the cartoon, it's just my fear that they might also do it in the movie.
LEEE777
LEEE777 - 10/8/2010, 3:12 AM
De ice article but WTF... If CAP don't fight NAZIS in the movie I gonna want my money back! : D
LEEE777
LEEE777 - 10/8/2010, 3:12 AM
Um Isn't RED SKULL a NAZI?
LightningArmour
LightningArmour - 10/8/2010, 5:09 AM
Technically he WAS a Nazi, but that can easily be changed for a movie if they plan on omitting Nazis' entirely.
Orphix
Orphix - 10/8/2010, 5:26 AM
Well the Red Skull does have a chat with his 'mein furhrer' in that clip so I guess Hitler is in it.

I believe he may have been a Nazi...
MassExecutions
MassExecutions - 10/8/2010, 6:31 AM
Two points:

1) There are countries with laws about products including swastika's on them. Comic covers sometimes have to be changed to sell in Germany, for instance. Featuring them in the video game might restrict where you can market it.

2)Ultimately, the Red Skull determined that he was something even bigger and better than the nazis, even thought he started out as one. You have to remember, he has an ego only rivaled by Dr. Doom. He would probably like to put his own brand on stuff.
Paulley
Paulley - 10/8/2010, 6:40 AM
It worried me two i understand why they take them out/change them in the cartoon (like the JLU episode) but i really really hope they dont for the movie.

So far everything we have seen for the movie has only featured HYDRA im hoping they will just turn out to be special ops group within the Nazi party.

if not i will be so very very dissapointed in this movie..
CorndogBurglar
CorndogBurglar - 10/8/2010, 7:01 AM
it would be completely stupid if he wasn't. its WWII for god's sake...
MassExecutions
MassExecutions - 10/8/2010, 7:27 AM
There will definitely be nazis in the movie, but maybe not in the game.
ROBBEATZZZ
ROBBEATZZZ - 10/8/2010, 8:52 AM
GOOD SPECULATING!!...LOL! WELL...LIKE EARLIER REPORTS OF THE SCRIPT...IT STARTS AS A WW2 STORY...SO AMERICAN SOLIDERS SHOULD BE FIGHTING NAZI'S..GERMAN FORCES..I REMEMBER SEEING A PIC OF NEWS PAPER SAYING "THE WAR IS OVER" AND IF IM NOT MISTAKEN IT MENTIONS NAZI'S SOMEWHERE IN THE PAPER..??

ALSO..I THINK HYDRA IS THE ONES BEHIND THIS PLOT..STEVE ROGERS GETS WIND OF AND TAKES MATTERS INTO HIS OWN HANDS
naterator
naterator - 10/8/2010, 9:25 AM
this is exactly the kind of shite that i have been fearing in regards to the making of this film and i even had a brief conversation with one of you fellow CBM'RS on the chat link. If they dont get this CAP AMERICA movie right as bringing him out to be the ULTIMATE PATRIOT and BELIEVER IN the UNITED STATES...it will not be true to the spirit of the character. True Fans of the character will be sorely disappointed and personally i think its a slap in the face to the character. I hope that there will be NAZIS in the film to show the world that we will not tolerate an enemy that of the SOCALIST/COMMUNIST nature. I hope they allow CAP to bleed his true colors. I may not see it if theres no moral to the story.
naterator
naterator - 10/8/2010, 9:32 AM
they have already raped the CAP costume for the film....why not the real meaning for the character.....just saying..... in the AVENGERS cartoon movie that was released by marvel they used the swasticka/ NAZIS and personally thats what made the film good. IMO
DailyPOP
DailyPOP - 10/8/2010, 10:41 AM
"My pain will be eased once I see some Swastikas. "
LightningArmour ... you do realize how messed up that sounds, right?... right?

naterator: "they have already raped the CAP costume for the film....why not the real meaning for the character.....just saying..... in the AVENGERS cartoon movie that was released by marvel they used the swasticka/ NAZIS and personally thats what made the film good. IMO"

Uh... they raped Cap? Really?? They raped him? I think you need to find a better way to put that unless you really are that pissed off. The costume isn't that different, actually. And the Nazis in the Avengers cartoon were working with aliens.

In what wacked out universe is that accurate??

"If they dont get this CAP AMERICA movie right as bringing him out to be the ULTIMATE PATRIOT and BELIEVER IN the UNITED STATES.."

Read the comic, dude. Cap is not the 'ultimate patriot' and often goes against popular opinion.

Captain America fights for all free men everywhere. If you're looking for the 'ultimate patriot who believes in the United States' check out Mark Millar's fascist Cap in the Ultimates. That character fits what you're looking for, not Joe and Jack's creation.

I completely agree with Xenix: "Saying it's disrespectful to the actual WWII is absurd. You might as well say it's disrespectful to have Cap IN it, since the war was won by brave soldiers and not superheroes."

If you are looking for historical accuracy, you shouldn't be looking for it in a comic book movie.

While Cap was the first superhero to lay a hay-maker on Hitler, it's completely reasonable to remove the Nazis as the main threat in a modern motion picture. Even Spielberg regretted having the Nazis in the Indiana Jones films and made Schindler's List as a kind of recompense if I remember correctly. Personally, I don't see why it's a big deal in the IJ films, but apparently the Spielberg disagrees.

There really are groups in the world that aspire to what the Nazis attempted. I also remember growing up hearing high schooler equate Germans with Nazis. The Nazi symbol is still very evocative and should be used responsibly. I think that's what Marvel is trying to do in the film and cartoon, both of which will be marketed to children.
DailyPOP
DailyPOP - 10/8/2010, 10:43 AM
Sorry if my post comes off as harsh or aggressive, by the way. I'm just stating my opinion and responding to others.

I hope the film is a good one that we can all be happy with.
Rhys
Rhys - 10/8/2010, 10:55 AM
Hmm, interesting thoughts. It is a possibility, but there is no good reason to take out Nazi's from the movie. I understand the cartoon/video game thing, but for the movie thats a little weird. But, it might not be too bad if true.

Maybe Red Skull will think that Hilter is inferior to him, and he will take over, and change the Nazi's into HYDRA, to live up to his own personal view of how it should be run/treated. Possibly?
naterator
naterator - 10/8/2010, 11:52 AM
@ dailyPOP...."Cap is not the 'ultimate patriot' and often goes against popular opinion."

....Going against popular opinion is very patriotic....if you havent checked out hollywood lately....to be patriotic isnt popular.

Captain America fights for all free men everywhere. If you're looking for the 'ultimate patriot who believes in the United States' check out Mark Millar's fascist Cap in the Ultimates. That character fits what you're looking for, not Joe and Jack's creation."

......hmmmmm so to believe in your country is to be a facist? Hes Captain America not Captain Everywhere. While he does fight for everyone as the United States does despite the constant complaints by most liberals....he still does only represent the USA not everywhere.

I dont think im speaking out of line....I hope i see some swasticka butt kicking in the movie. Everyone should relearn what the Nazis were and what they did. Those that lived out that time would not be offended to see the NAZIS get an ass kicking. ITS PATRIOTIC!!!
naterator
naterator - 10/8/2010, 11:55 AM
@DanielThomasRandKai Im not opposed to that idea....but i do think its important to at least acknowledge that this would be the case. I think that the NAZIS need to be present at some point in the movie. it is WW2.
Paulley
Paulley - 10/8/2010, 12:26 PM
I like my comic book films to be more grounded in reality.. if anything it helps contrast a fantastical hero if everything around him is as close to normal as it can be.

This era of the Marvel Universe is may favorite part of comics fictional history.. the heroes were simpler mostly underpowered and from a narrative and visual point of view Nazis are the perfect villains.

The symbolism and conformity of the Nazi party was the first wide scale political/social brainwashing (for lack of a better word) bombarding its populace with constant visual reminders to shape the populace to Hitler's will.. it worked so damn well most Germans didnt even realize they were losing near the end, and such visual tactics are still in use today in places like North Korea.

And from a narrative point of view Hitler's (less than gentle) push in scientific research, genetics, and the occult lead to an endless avenue of possible story ideas.

And these elements are echoed in the animated shows use of HYDRA.. but im still on the side that if your doing a movie set during World War Two you have Allies vs. Axis of Evil and they include the Nazis...

Would you really think non-comic fans (aka general public) would be fine about watching a film about Nazis that someone has randomly decided to change the name of and replace the symbols with a skull octopuses.

and on a final note would you have wanted to see young Magneto hauled away and separated from his parents at a HYDRA concentration camp.. really would you.
ThreeBigTacos
ThreeBigTacos - 10/8/2010, 12:29 PM
I think you're really looking too hard into this. Cmon, first off, why would they put Nazis in a KIDS CARTOON. The video game doesn't show much, but that doesnt mean Nazi's won't be in it. Nazis will be in the movie, but like I said, you're looking too hard into this.
DailyPOP
DailyPOP - 10/8/2010, 12:43 PM
@Paulley - But Captain America actually did and does fight Hydra. Plus, it has been confirmed that Red Skull talks to Hitler in the film, so there is no revisionist take on the existence of the Nazis, it's just that the focus is on Hydra, an elite group led by the Red Skull. Just like the 'toon, I'm sure that the threat posed by Hydra will extend to the present.

@naterator -......hmmmmm so to believe in your country is to be a facist?

No, but Captain America as created by Simon and Kirby was hardly 'the ultimate patriot,' he's just a very brave kid doing what he thinks is right. If that speaks to you as patriotism I can certainly see that and so be it, but that term can be viewed as isolationist if it gets paired with 'believing in the United States'- hence my fascist remark. Mark Millar depicts Captain America as a 'my country right or wrong, my country' type that is quite fascist and close-minded. Not at all the Steve Rogers I read about. It's also a pretty pessimistic view.

Captain America embodies the belief in what America should stand for, but that belief isn't restricted to one country. He works with people from all over (much like the Allies in WWII), so I don't think that he views America as being superior.

I have no idea where you're coming from regarding patriotism not being 'popular in Hollywood.' Tony Stark works with the military, while initially hunted by the US Army the Hulk eventually sides with them. Even Spidey took some time out to pose against the American flag.

"Everyone should relearn what the Nazis were and what they did.".... Uh... what??? Has anyone seriously forgotten what the Nazis were? Seriously?
DailyPOP
DailyPOP - 10/8/2010, 12:49 PM
DanielThomasRandKai - "Maybe Red Skull will think that Hilter is inferior to him, and he will take over, and change the Nazi's into HYDRA, to live up to his own personal view of how it should be run/treated. Possibly?"

That pretty much fits the comic.
Rhys
Rhys - 10/8/2010, 1:49 PM
@nate, daily,

Yeah, so basically what I'm saying is maybe HYDRA won't be there INSTEAD of Nazi's, but the Nazi's will Become HYDRA. That makes sense right? Hahahaha
Paulley
Paulley - 10/8/2010, 1:57 PM
@DailyPOP yea i hope theye are just a sub group within Nazi Germany and i know Captain America has fought them all over there long history which is why they are included in the first place.. im just against the Nazi's complete exclusion.

I you really wanna go in HYDRA's history they were a group started (or restarted) by the Hand.
ager
ager - 10/8/2010, 3:37 PM
im guessing they will mention NATZIs. we will see them. but why if USA was gonna create a super soldier wouldnt they send him out after Skull, Zemo, Strucker and Hydra being that they are more dangerous than NATZIs. yaeh NATZIs kill but they dont bring forth Ragnorack. Its a movie about a comic book We dont NEED him ONLY fighting NATZIs we have soldiers for that
Bodwulf
Bodwulf - 10/8/2010, 3:51 PM
You know I noticed the same as you say no Natzis. There was a Flash Gordon Cartoon in the 1980s that the pilot episode had Natzis. it aired one time. It was cut up in to episodes and all Nazi footage removed. I noticed the cartoon for Avengers was Nazi free and then thought well if they could not handle it in the 80's they dman sure can't have it in the wishy washy 2010s.
BIGBMH
BIGBMH - 10/8/2010, 6:16 PM
I'm kind of concerned about this too.
patriautism
patriautism - 10/8/2010, 8:37 PM
It's always fun to see a Nazi get beat to hell.
Akercocke
Akercocke - 10/8/2010, 8:52 PM
No Nazis folks, only Hydra
SentinelofLiberty
SentinelofLiberty - 10/8/2010, 11:35 PM
How about this: Nazis are mentioned kind of peripherally. In the beginning of the movie, the Allied intelligence agencies become concerned about a shadowy group (Hydra) and figure (Skull) who are a far bigger threat than the Nazis, and who are using the Nazis as their puppets. The Super Soldier program is directed at fighting the larger threat (Hydra/Skull). So the Nazis are kind of background noise, but the Super Soldiers are meant to take the fight to Hydra. Could something like that explain it all?
TheLarTheorem
TheLarTheorem - 10/9/2010, 1:46 AM
Anyone who thinks that it's not important to have Nazis in this movie can suck a big dick.

They are the same jerkoffs who thought Heath Ledger was a good Joker.

They are the same jerkoffs who are cool with DC's current 'whitewashing' tactics.

They are the same jerkoffs who thought Iron Man was a good game.

I can easily see Marvel [frick]ing with history, slapping the families of holocaust victims across the kisser and going: "Sorry, it's easier to pretend that the pain and agony your people went through didn't happen."

[frick] Nazi lovers, and [frick] Nazi ignorers.
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