Batman Begins 10 Years Later

Batman Begins 10 Years Later

Take a look back at the movie that kicked off the Nolanverse on its 10 year anniversary.

Editorial Opinion
By Shazam37 - Jun 15, 2015 03:06 PM EST
Filed Under: DC Comics

Begins

Believe it or not, Christopher Nolan’s Batman origin story was released ten years ago today. I remember going to see it at the theater and as a new member of the “teenager” club I instantly fell in love with the new dark and gritty version of the character. Was it a perfect representation of the caped crusader? No. But it still had aspects of the character and mythos that we love to see in a Batman movie and welcomed by fans who were still trying to shake off the aftereffects of Joel Schumacher’s Batman and Robin. Often overshadowed by its successor, Batman Begins was a truly great movie and, while most agree that The Dark Knight is the best of the trilogy, a lot of fans consider Begins their favorite.

5 Things We’re Thankful For:

1. Reinvigorated the franchise. There’s no question that Batman and Robinofficially killed the franchise for almost a decade. The character was in need of a resurrection the likes of what The Dark Knight Returns did for the character in the late ’80’s. Christopher Nolan delivered and now we’re back to getting well made, entertaining movies that understand the character and can hold up against any movie in any genre.

Batman

2. Exciting and unique take on the character’s origin. While Nolan did take some liberties with the character, his story was also influenced by the comics, including a few scenes taken directly from Frank Miller’s Batman Year One. Overall the story of Ra’s al Ghul looking to purge Gotham with his League of Shadows was a very interesting one, especially the monologue he gives while Wayne Manor is burning claiming they were behind some of history’s most devastating events, including the black plague and the burning of London. The shaky cam used in the action scenes was a bit over the top, but there was no question that Batman was leaving the criminals in bad shape, and Batman’s introductory scene shows just how badass the character is and ranks up there with that of Tim Burton’s Batman.

3. Put DC back on the cinematic map! (for the time being…). When this movie came out Marvel had already been enjoying the successes of FOX’sX-Men franchise fueled by Hugh Jackman’s Wolverine and Sony’s originalSpider-Man trilogy. When this movie was released it put DC back on the cinematic map in a big way, something that Superman Returns and Green Lantern would tag team into submission later on.

Begins

4. Inclusion of great villains who had been underutilized in the cinematic theatre. While we’ve seen the Riddler, Joker, Catwoman, and Penguin plenty of times on the big screen, we had yet to see two of Batman’s more formidable foes in Scarecrow and especially Ra’s al Ghul. Nolan should be applauded for using a character such as Ra’s in an origin story in a major motion picture, as he is not a villain that is going to reel in the casual fan. And while there were changes made to the character in order to fit him into the realistic universe, his motivations and ideals remained the same. I believe that Liam Neeson’s performance as Ra’s is extremely underrated, as it is, again, overshadowed by the more memorable (and quotable) performances of the Joker and Bane. Honestly though, this should be considered one of Neeson’s best performances; again, I harken back to the monologue in Wayne Manor as one of his best scenes. Scarecrow also added an aspect to the movie that distanced it from previous iterations. Fear toxin is something that would have looked very different in Schumaker’s films, but Nolan really inserted the Scarecrow's infamous gas into the story very well. It was threatening and somewhat scary without going over the top coming to a head in the scene where Batman gives scarecrow “a taste of his own medicine”.

Ra's al Ghul

5. Set up what many claim is the greatest comic book movie in The Dark Knight. The final scene between Batman and Gordon on the GCPD precinct rooftop got everyone’s attention when Gordon handed Batman a playing card that, when flipped over to reveal the face, featured a joker card and teased Batman’s most iconic rogue for the 2008 sequel.

5 Things It Got Right:

1. Realistic. While some didn’t appreciate the dark and gritty feel of Man of Steel, Batman is a character that pretty much requires such a setting. Christopher Nolan made sure to completely distance himself from the most recent iterations of Batman by creating a gritty Gotham. Tim Burton’s Batmancan also be considered dark, but Nolan gives the audience a look into the underbelly and corruption of Gotham that Burton never did and the story really thrives off of this, as it explains how gangsters like Carmine Falcone are so powerful and is one for our hero’s main motivations.

2. The three personas of Bruce Wayne. One of the best things about Nolan’s Batman is that he grasps the idea of the three personas of Bruce Wayne. There’s Bruce when he’s playing the billionaire playboy, Bruce when he’s alone in the cave or with Alfred, and Bruce when he’s wearing the cowl. This movie truly delved into this in a way that no Batman movie had before it and was performed flawlessly by Christian Bale — whether you like the voice or hate it, Bale did a great job at playing three distinct personas. Michael Keaton was a great Batman, but he only had two of the three personas down in Bruce Wayne as Batman and brooding Bruce Wayne (not including “Let’s get nuts”), Val Kilmer falls into a similar category, and George Clooney just played the one persona throughout the movie. Begins even goes a step further as it adds the Bruce Wayne as a child before and after his parents’ murder, early-twenties, angsty Bruce Wayne, and pre-Batman Bruce Wayne, something the other movies didn’t really have a chance to explore because they weren’t origin stories.

Batman

3. The tumbler scene. Hollywood is ripe with car chase scenes nowadays, but not all of them include the military-grade Batmobile. Nolan introduced the Tumbler, a bridging vehicle used by the military that comes in black. It was put to full use later in the movie when Batman was running from the Gotham police. In a very exciting scene we saw it’s weapons systems, stealth mode, jumping capabilities, and sheer brute force all on display. This, accompanied by the stakes of the situation and Hans Zimmer’s wonderful score, made for a great scene that never really loses its excitement.

4. Batman’s allies. While Batman is known for being very isolated and preferring to work alone, the reality is that he has a great support team that is always around to help him. Nolan decided not to introduce a new Robin or sidekick for Batman, instead opting to use Jim Gordon, Alfred, and Lucius Fox to the absolute best of their abilities. You will not find a better version of any of these characters in the previous Batman movies. Gordon served as Batman’s eyes and ears in the police station and ally in the field, Alfred his moral compass and doer of his dirty work, and Lucius was in charge of the design and production of his weapons and gadgets. Each character was wonderfully casted and were major players throughout the trilogy.

Alfred

5. The score. Speaking of Hans Zimmer, he and James Newton Howard worked on the film’s score and absolutely nailed it. This soundtrack supplements the film beautifully and truly details the dark and gritty universe the story is set in. It’s my personal favorite of the trilogy and I can’t wait to see what Zimmer has in store for Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice.

Begins

The Nolanverse has seen its fair share of criticisms from fans who claim that there wasn’t enough Batman in the trilogy and that the director didn’t capture the essence of the character, and those are fair criticisms and we’ll probably see a more faithful interpretation of the character in Dawn of Justice. That said, this criticism is truer for the later two films in the trilogy as Begins did feature a Batman that lingered in the shadows, Arkham Asylum style, and truly struck fear into his victims before very convincingly breaking their bones. But, whether you are of this mindset or not, there is no denying that they are great movies and deserve to be mentioned among the best in the genre and Batman Begins started it all ten short years ago.

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MisterHolmes
MisterHolmes - 6/15/2015, 3:38 PM
love this movie
DrKinsolving
DrKinsolving - 6/15/2015, 3:44 PM
I give respect to Nolan, Christian Bale and co

1. The Origin Story
2. Bruce Wayne
3. The Lucius Fox scenes were some of the best for me, and both Fox and Alfred were perfectly cast
4. The Tumbler
5. The Batcave
6. I liked Katie Holmes, Maggie did an awesome job in TDK, but wish Katie could have stayed on
7. Scarecrow and Ra's
8. Carmine Falcone
9. The look and feel of Gotham
10. The GCPD and Gordon

The main thing that wasn't believable for me was the action, but I respect the hell out of this movie and TDK. TDKRises was horrible though, filmed excellently, but story, plot, etc, horrible

With that said, I'm so happy that we're done with Nolan and we can finally move on to the DCCU and an even more comic influenced Batman and Universe
MisterBatfleck
MisterBatfleck - 6/15/2015, 3:57 PM
Severely underrated and overshadowed by TDK. Begins is still one of the best, if not THE best, superhero origin movie.

MisterBatfleck
MisterBatfleck - 6/15/2015, 3:58 PM
Hell, it's my personal favorite out of the whole trilogy.
DrKinsolving
DrKinsolving - 6/15/2015, 4:15 PM
@MisterBatfleck

Yeah, the origin rocked. Batman Begins was also more of a Batman centric movie, while TDK was more Joker centric
MisterSuperior
MisterSuperior - 6/15/2015, 4:39 PM
Agree with everyone who said Batman Begins is severely underrated, especially when it's overshadowed by the very overrated The Dark Knight, which happens to be my least favorite film in the trilogy. The more I watch TDK, while it serves its purpose of the overall storyline that is The Dark Knight Trilogy(although, I always wondered why it's not called The Dark Knight Legend), it is severely the worst film of the trilogy and I really don't understand the hype TDK gets over the better films that is Batman Begins and The Dark Knight Rises.

BB is also, imo, the best CB origin film we have seen as of yet. What Nolan did was focus so much attention on the main character, Bruce Wayne, and his focus was on one of the most complex characters out there simply because there are three distinctive personalities when dealing with this character too, unlike most of all of the other comic book superheroes out there. Now, I won't get into the argument that some would like to bring up of there being two personalities of Bruce Wayne and not three(as some suggest the Batman persona can still be the persona that people like Alfred knows), but I'm on the boat of there being indeed three distinctive personalities and right off the bat(no pun intended), Nolan introduced them and did a great job at it.

@DrKinsolving

We will never share the same opinion on TDKR, lol, but to your comment about the action...I actually have come to this idea after recently watching the trilogy in yet another marathon that as much as the films and themes are so operatic and how it's a very thematic series of films, I think you could shed a different light on the action, or mostly just in the fighting scenes and choreography that it portrays itself in a operatic style with the fighting as well. Now, while Ra's al Ghul said "Still, this is not a dance." or something to that effect to Bruce in BB, all of the fight scenes, which also includes BB even with its uses of shaky cameras...they all look like how you'd see fighting being portrayed on stage for an opera and it's weird, after recently watching BB and the story all started after Bruce, Thomas and Martha left the opera, that it's not Zorro....it's the opera. I think there are certain themes flowing through the trilogy whether it be the music or the dialogue, but even with the fighting, you could look at the entire trilogy being this massive seven hour opera and the fighting scenes would be includes. They're not pretty and at times they can look very ugly, but in its own way, it does look quite beautiful too, imo.
MisterSuperior
MisterSuperior - 6/15/2015, 4:41 PM
included*
montyburns
montyburns - 6/15/2015, 4:55 PM
So just cause I'm a complete and total douchebag, enjoy this from the avclub

In honor of Batman Begins’ anniversary, The Hollywood Reporter provides a primer on five different Batman films that were in development after Batman & Robin opened to near-universal derision in 1997. They were all eventually scrapped in favor of Nolan’s vision, but it’s fun to imagine what might have been for the Caped Crusader. Here are some things fans could have witnessed/endured:

Batman hallucinating a back-from-the-dead Joker (reprised by Jack Nicholson, if all went as planned) while high on the Scarecrow’s fear toxin in Schumacher’s far-more-serious Batman Unchained.

A bereaved Bruce Wayne goes on a vengeance quest after the murder of his wife only to be stopped by Superman in Wolfgang Peterson’s Batman Vs. Superman.

Then up-and-coming director Darren Aronofsky’s take on Frank Miller’s Batman: Year One

A live-action adaptation of Batman Beyond from screenwriters Alan Burnett and Paul Dini

And then there’s the worst-case scenario: a story focusing on Chris O’Donnell’s Dick Grayson making enemies with a pre-Scarecrow Jonathan Crane in college, as well as an adjunct bad guy in the form of Man-Bat. That one would have donned the ignominious title Batman: DarKnight.

You're welcome people. You're welcome.
Odin
Odin - 6/15/2015, 5:11 PM
@montyburns Aronofsky's year One was going to have Bruce Wayne as a homeless man and Alfred as an african-american car repairman called "Big-Al".
Odin
Odin - 6/15/2015, 5:18 PM
Batman Begins is my favourite from the trilogy. I'm not saying that TDK would be any worse, it's just very different kind of movie. Despite the realism, Batman Begins feels more like a CBM and less like an action movie remake. TDKR...was kinda like the Man of Steel, not necessarily a bad movie at all, just very dissapointing one.
montyburns
montyburns - 6/15/2015, 5:23 PM
@Odin...first of all, I would see that. I would. Secondly, fantastic analogy for the Dark Knight Returns. Watchable, just not engrossing like the first two films. Finally, good article by Shazam37.
TheLoveDoc
TheLoveDoc - 6/15/2015, 5:29 PM
@DrKinsolving As a film buff, I've seen a lot of movies. With that said, TDKR does not have a horrible plot, maybe it has issues, but as a film in itself it is great. The people who seems to nitpick the film the most are CBM fanatics, when even as a story in itself holds stronger than the vast majority of CBMs, just refer to general audience reception and critical. Granted this is a he said she said opinion thing...but I still find it hard to understand people calling this a horrible film.
DrKinsolving
DrKinsolving - 6/15/2015, 5:56 PM
@MisterSuperior

I see what your saying, that's a cool take on things man, that's a cool way to look at it. I like how they approached the fighting style and you can tell they put work into creating and evolving that style, it just wasn't really believable, imo.

@TheLoveDoc

Personally, there was so much wrong with the film, lot's of holes. The whole vertebrae punching back into place thing, Batman defeated crime and retired for 8 years, someone with that amount of passion wouldn't retire, and you can't just defeat crime especially in Gotham, Gotham would have needed Batman

Wayne, falling repeatedly and further injuring his back, but the story acts like this hasn't happened so that the plot can move forward.

Catwoman saving the day at the last minute, the Talia death was horrible.

It just took me out of the story, you know.

And, the, because he's Batman line doesn't add up. BB and TDK were amazing films but TDKRs, ugh

I'm really not nitpicking, it was filmed excellently, but there are obvious problems
DrKinsolving
DrKinsolving - 6/15/2015, 5:56 PM
@TheLoveDoc

Cool name, btw, haha
DrKinsolving
DrKinsolving - 6/15/2015, 5:59 PM
And, I could go into the problems of TDKRises more but I don't really want to, because this article was cool and it's a celebration of Batman Begins. Batman Begins Rocked
MisterSuperior
MisterSuperior - 6/15/2015, 6:50 PM
@DrKinsolving

It's certainly the way I view it now. For a good time, it wasn't; I just viewed it as a very subpar choreograph, or at least in most fighting scenes than others in TDKTrilogy(Bane/Batman in the sewers, Batman vs SWAT), but I think viewing it the way I just brought up, it certainly adds a layer to the way the fight scenes are actually handled. Yes, I agree, they obviously put some thought, time and effort into those scenes as most CBMs or any action films do, but they just don't stand up there with films like The Winter Soldier.

And if you ever wanted to, I'm always down to defend films I really love and I'll love to have any kind of discussion about TDKR.

@TheLoveDoc

Imo, TDKR is indeed a great film. I'm a comic book fanatic and TDKR is one of my favorite CBMs, and actually one of my favorite films period.
MisterSuperior
MisterSuperior - 6/15/2015, 7:08 PM
@DrKinsolving

I only read your reply to me and didn't even notice you indeed mentioned a couple of nitpicks anyways, so...if you don't mind...

"The whole vertebrae punching back into place thing"

Anyone will obviously agree about this, but after TDK and how they just let Dent walk around for half a day with half a face completely [frick]ed up, I just let this pass much like how I did with Dent's situation. Also, I view The Pit as, even the Nolanized version of it, it's still a take on the Lazarus Pit. From seeing a vision of Ra's al Ghul to climbing out of The Pit anew spiritually, emotionally and of course physically, his whole body feeling anew with a better knee and a better back never bothered me because it had its tendencies of still feeling mystical in its own way. Even while some want to claim it so, the trilogy went less and less realistic by each film and yes, that includes The Dark Knight, so what happens with the protruded vertebrae just being pushed back, while not scientifically accurate, it's one of those things that can't stop me from enjoying something...in fact, I like the idea that Bruce had to stay in one position for a certain amount of time...what would be far more idiotic is if that old guy pushes the vertebrae back in and Bruce just walks off totally fine, lol.

"Batman defeated crime and retired for 8 years, someone with that amount of passion wouldn't retire, and you can't just defeat crime especially in Gotham, Gotham would have needed Batman"

Batman continues because of crime, and in the comics/animated series/et cetera, crime exists beyond just the crime families when you bring in the freaks, but when Batman Begins introduces, heavily, just crime families, wouldn't it be natural in Nolan's world that once the crime families are removed, all crime is removed? What BB and TDK portrayed is the crime being because of the mobs and the like with a freak here or there like Scarecrow and Joker. One can't assume Batman would continue of Nolan's Gotham portrayed crime in essential differently than what the evolution usually is when it comes to how crime involves in comics/animated series/et cetera.

And as for someone with passion not giving up the cape and cowl, Bruce still needed Batman regardless. It had nothing to do with not having the passion as Bruce hastily returned as Batman once Gotham finally needed him again. Rachel was always right when she said Bruce will always needed Batman and the beginning of TDKR indeed showed this. Even Bruce preferred to stay in shadows and darkness while in his exile, shown in the beginning of the film.

"Wayne, falling repeatedly and further injuring his back, but the story acts like this hasn't happened so that the plot can move forward."

I suppose this goes back to my comments of what The Pit represents, really. And Bruce has gone through far worse as Batman when he fell unto the street after being caught on fire, then falling on a taxi and the Batsuit won't help him that much.

"Catwoman saving the day at the last minute"

It was Batman essentially since Catwoman had to use the Bat-pot to do such, lol. Just like how Pepper needed to use the Iron Man armor to save the day as the last minute by saving Tony.

"the Talia death was horrible."

I never understood the hate of that scene. The way Talia's upper body shook and the fluttering of her eyes seemed, imo, accurate to someone that seemingly lost all feeling neck below. Watch the scene and Talia seemingly lost all feeling below the neck.
MisterSuperior
MisterSuperior - 6/15/2015, 7:13 PM
Bat-pot....heh.

Bat-pod*
DrKinsolving
DrKinsolving - 6/15/2015, 7:21 PM
@MisterSuperior

Cool, and yeah, Batman vs SWAT and Batman vs Bane were awesome, I loved that, no complaints there. I think I might have clapped or stood up really quick when I saw that in the Theatre, haha. But, that was spoiled when the prison doctor punched Wayne's vertebrae back into place.

For me, the medical stuff really messed up the TDKRs story. I've seen people with SCI (Spinal Cord Injuries) first hand and it's just so unrealistic. That was easily a Thoracic/Lumbar SCI, possibly Sacral, definitely below T6. I mean the amount of problems that Wayne would have would be absolutely insane. All those falls too, I understand the poetic/motivational concept behind it, I mean I love Rocky movies, haha. But, it just didn't sell me. Like I said before the Catwoman thing too, killing Bane at the last minute, the concept of no crime in Gotham for 8 years.

You can say that it's because I read the comics, and honestly I won't argue. I really like the Knightfall Arc, and the characters involved, I understand that this is an adaptation but still.... it just didn't work for me

But, yeah, if you look at it like an Opera or something like that too, then I could understand it. But, I don't, especially after The Dark Knight, for me, it was disappointing and definitely the weak link of the trilogy.
DrKinsolving
DrKinsolving - 6/15/2015, 7:29 PM
@MisterSuperior

I just read your response, haha

The Dent thing doesn't bother me as much, because I've seen burn victims, and in TDK, they never really mention how serious Dent's burns are. Dent also got treatment in the hospital, and he could have taken some pain meds with him when he left or something else. Dent was also crazy, so the pain could have served as more motivation. We really don't know Dent's medical condition though. He could have been ready to drop right at any second and just holding it together.

I totally don't buy Gotham not needing Batman for 8 years, I just don't buy into it. Especially Batman in his prime.

I'm really surprised your defending the Talia death though, haha, to each his own

It really is all opinion though, you know
DrKinsolving
DrKinsolving - 6/15/2015, 7:32 PM
"And Bruce has gone through far worse as Batman when he fell unto the street after being caught on fire, then falling on a taxi and the Batsuit won't help him that much."

I disagree with this, medically, haha. That snap back when Bruce falls in the pit could have easily dislocated his back again, especially after coming off a fresh spinal cord injury, he wasn't wearing a suit

If Batman was wearing the suit in the Pit, with his cape and all, then I'd be sold, haha
TheLoveDoc
TheLoveDoc - 6/15/2015, 7:48 PM
@DrKinsolving
Lol thanks. But yeah I won't deny it has its set of story problems, and I think it's reflective of Nolan trying to do too much. And I think his over ambition was kinda reflective. Regardless it's my least favorite of the trilogy. But at the same time I personally think its a fun movie.
MisterSuperior
MisterSuperior - 6/15/2015, 7:52 PM
@DrKinsolving

Did they need to mention how badly Dent was burned, though? Did you see his face? Haha. I honestly don't know which was worse, because as you've been around people with spinal injuries, I knew someone whose face was burned...well, not just his face and he burnt his entire upper body included his entire face which was back when I was in middle school and just the idea of how badly burnt half of Dent's face was...to me and what I just know, it was far more unrealistic, so I think I know how you feel because you find the protruding vertebrae bit unrealistic and all, so I think we're on the same boats of how we feel with those two specific situations.

"But, yeah, if you look at it like an Opera or something like that too, then I could understand it. But, I don't, especially after The Dark Knight, for me, it was disappointing and definitely the weak link of the trilogy."

And also, I don't think whatever's in TDKR shouldn't keep you from viewing that operatic tone in TDKR's fight scenes. I am referring to JUST the fighting....however your feelings are of the film shouldn't deter that notion if you can look at the fighting scenes in BB and TDK to be that.

"I totally don't buy Gotham not needing Batman for 8 years, I just don't buy into it."

To each their own. I thought it made perfect sense.

"I'm really surprised your defending the Talia death though, haha, to each his own"

There's nothing to defend, though. Like I mention, I never understood the hate or how people have poked fun at it. To me, it's alway felt like it's being mocked for no reason. It's when people want to make memes of a tired LeBron James kneeling on the court. There is no national reasoning for poking fun at something. But, indeed to each their own...I will never understand how some things are hated while others are overhyped and overrated.

"I disagree with this, medically, haha. That snap back when Bruce falls in the pit could have easily dislocated his back again"

Could have, but again, it didn't. It's like how I never bought how Batman hurt his legs when wearing the batsuit, but the TDK script mentions it of when Batman is limping off. It's their own rules and Bruce's back just didn't snap back. We even saw other guys who fell and they didn't become paralyze because of it. But, I still believe that it isn't as bad as the falls Batman had in the previous two films. He fell in a lighter suit on top of a taxi cab. Hell, Rachel was even perfectly fine at it, lmao.
DrKinsolving
DrKinsolving - 6/15/2015, 8:01 PM
@MisterSuperior

Haha, ok, type, That snap back when Bruce falls in the pit WOULD have easily dislocated his back, again

Haha, I fixed it.

Like I said though man, to each his own, and with all of the other amazing CBMs coming out, I really don't feel like watching TDKRises again. BB and TDK are great movies but even those, I'm really more excited for the DCCU and what's coming

Because in the DCCU, Batman will finally make sense, can't wait for all of that, Suicide Squad looks absolutely amazing, and I can't wait for Batman v Superman, there's so much potential there
MisterSuperior
MisterSuperior - 6/15/2015, 8:19 PM
@DrKinsolving

"Haha, ok, type, That snap back when Bruce falls in the pit WOULD have easily dislocated his back, again"

Now that I agree with, but in that world, Rachel died from falling ontop of a taxi cab because there's no way Batman should have been enough protection, lol. And that would have certainly changed the entire landscape of not only TDKR, but TDK's too, heh.

I never told you to watch TDKR again though, lol. I mean, I would love to advise anyone to do so with the way of thinking of how I view that film, and from the sound of it, I think I've added a different way of looking at the film to guys like dethpillow and SauronsBane, but I wouldn't demand you to watch the film...just from comic book fan to another, that's all. I'm excited to seeing Batman done right as well...he's not "done right" in Nolan's trilogy on a level of a Sherlock Holmes-like mind or knowing 120+ martial arts styles, but certainly in a different tone and in a different way and the trilogy will always be viewed as an Elseworlds tale in my mind, and as I have always said...you obviously need to get Batman right to put him into the same universe with Superman, haha.

And besides the awful tattoos on Joker, I'm looking forward to Suicide Squad too....I hope DC blows the roof at Comic-Con in a couple of weeks.
MisterSuperior
MisterSuperior - 6/15/2015, 8:23 PM
I mean, Batman wouldn't have needed Lucius Fox's help even back in Batman Begins. The Batman in the DCCU shouldn't rely on anyone except for himself, or maybe Alfred if he desperately needed help.

But god help me, I don't want to see Bane. I got a Bane I wanted and even if it's a somewhat more "tamed" version of a hulking brute using venom, then so be it. That was how I always wanted Bane to be portrayed because I hated how Bane's become as of late. I'd be fine if DCCU just doesn't even use Bane, honestly lol. If they want to adapt Knightfall in any way, then change up the villain or something, haha.
DrKinsolving
DrKinsolving - 6/15/2015, 8:35 PM
@MisterSuperior

Yeah, a lot of people don't like Bane because they think he's an easy win, but there's more to Bane

Especially in Knightfall. I'd love to see a Killer Croc vs Bane fight like in Knightfall and see Bane break Killer Croc's wrists/hands. I would love to see Jean-Paul Valley too, and Nightwing, etc, etc....

But, yeah, I doubt we'll see Bane again, for a long time, at least not as a major villain.

I definitely hope we get Hush and Court of Owls though, I hope that's on the agenda

And, if they adapt Knightfall, Bane needs to be there man, haha
MisterSuperior
MisterSuperior - 6/15/2015, 8:49 PM
@DrKinsolving

Not saying there isn't more to Bane, and I think a lot of people actually do know more about Bane than you'd believe as TDKR''s defenders always bring up the real Bane because the guy is an intellectual being as much as an amazing physical adversary, but as someone who always hated the idea of venom, I just don't want to see it on film. Like, at all. It actually made me happy seeing venom being portrayed as this silly little thing back in Batman & Robin because the drug is a complete joke. Bane is a beast of a man and has all of those phenomenal attributes without the drug; it only makes him bigger, and that's it. Imo, Bane should have defeated Batman without venom in their first battle even. I like how TDKR did something with having the medicine help Bane in the way it did as a nod to the venom drug sort of like their own easter egg of sorts or a comic reference, but that's as close as I want to see the drug again in film. It's just something I always hated about Bane because his introduction clearly showed a specimen that doesn't need it shouldn't, especially when the drug has become such an easy convenience to defeat Bane.

And not....Knightfall doesn't NEED to use Bane, haha...just have the adaptation be focused on the battle between Batman and Azrael. Just have a multitude of Batman's past foes defeat Batman, which would still be an adaptation as, besides Bane breaking these guys out for Batman to capture one by one, they all escape Arkham and team up to break Batman's spirits as well as his body. You could easily have Killer Croc or Solomon Grundy being the physicality to "break the Bat" while you have guys like Riddler and Scarecrow breaking Batman's spirit.

Aside from my deep hatred of venom which has been around for years ever since I was first introduced to the character of Bane and followed him in the comics, haha, I too want to see Hush and Court of Owls. The two biggest elements on my wish list for future Batfilms. Hell, I'd love to see a version of Riddler that I can enjoy too.
MisterSuperior
MisterSuperior - 6/15/2015, 8:51 PM
Holy shit....I think it's time to call it quits for tonight because I have counted multiple spelling/grammar errors on my last reply.
DrKinsolving
DrKinsolving - 6/15/2015, 9:05 PM
@MisterSuperior

Also, I just thought of this, haha. Had to post it

This happened for real, and the guy survives and actually walks away afterward, and he wasn't even wearing a Batsuit and no Cape

http://www.dailydot.com/lol/russian-man-jumps-off-building/



DrKinsolving
DrKinsolving - 6/15/2015, 9:05 PM
DrKinsolving
DrKinsolving - 6/15/2015, 9:09 PM
Totally disagree on Bane though

Knightfall without Bane is just stupid, Azrael vs Bane means so much to the story, that's partly what gives Valley the confidence to become his twisted version of Batman

And, they don't even need Venom, look at Arkham Origins and stuff like that, Bane could just be Bane without Venom
DrKinsolving
DrKinsolving - 6/15/2015, 9:11 PM
Killer Croc or Solomon Grundy

These guys aren't Bane though, sorry man, I disagree

Killer Croc would eat Batman

And, Grundy, if Grundy actually beat and broke Batman's back I don't even want to know what he would do

Bane is the key, he owns Gotham after he defeats Batman
MisterSuperior
MisterSuperior - 6/16/2015, 10:25 AM
@DrKinsolving

I'd survive that fall too if I just fell on snow.

Jump off a building into a taxi in what appears to be like a ten-fifteen pound plated suit and see what happens. Or bring your lady friend and just wrap her around with your cape, lmao.

"Killer Croc or Solomon Grundy

These guys aren't Bane though, sorry man, I disagree"

Of course they aren't Bane...because they don't have a convenient way to be defeated, haha.

"Killer Croc would eat Batman"

Then why hasn't he? This is irrelevant to what I am bringing up, lol. I'm not saying I want Croc to eat Batman.

"And, Grundy, if Grundy actually beat and broke Batman's back I don't even want to know what he would do

Bane is the key, he owns Gotham after he defeats Batman"

"Totally disagree on Bane though

Knightfall without Bane is just stupid, Azrael vs Bane means so much to the story, that's partly what gives Valley the confidence to become his twisted version of Batman"

A loose adaptation of anything Nolan's trilogy has borrowed from has never been 100% beginning to end accurate. Such as what I am bringing up. Knightfall, if anything, or if anything I'd like to see on film, would take away Bane out of the situation. I'm not saying you're wrong in that Bane is a main attraction to the arc, but in film, if and as you mentioned many times as how you'd like to see it being done on film, I'd rather take certain points like a number of villains going after Batman, or Azrael being a character, but just not Bane...I don't want to see venom in a live-action film, ever. Period. BUT....if Bane is used in the DCCU without the drug, then I'd be totally down with that. Use Bane as this Spanish mercenary with a tactical outfit and a black helmet-like mask with a spray-painted skull face on it who's just this physical threat as much as a calculating menace. I mean, when I got into Bane, I felt the idea, without the venom drug, should've been this symbolism between Batman's motivation and Bane's. Those two are very much a ying and yang even in the comics and Bane's motivation was to out-do his competitors and be simply better, but that won't be good enough because Batman will always be better. It's like how pain symbolizes both Bane and Bruce in TDKR. The venom drug isn't this symbol that can be of the Batman/Bane parallel, imo.

"And, they don't even need Venom, look at Arkham Origins and stuff like that, Bane could just be Bane without Venom"

Bane still used venom in Arkham Origins too. But, as I just mentioned:

"Use Bane as this Spanish mercenary with a tactical outfit and a black helmet-like mask with a spray-painted skull face on it who's just this physical threat as much as a calculating menace. "

I'd be down with that.

You're misunderstanding me too, lol.....I'm totally fine with seeing Bane...if done right again(imo, because I felt TDKR did get him right, or at least right to me of course), but the venom drug is not what I want to see. The venom drug, to me, doesn't add anything to Bane. He's great without it, because it was for the reason why he was in such great physical and mental shape that the drug even worked on him anyways.
DrKinsolving
DrKinsolving - 6/16/2015, 11:08 AM
@MisterSuperior

Haha, yeah man, I was relating that fall more to the fall in Batman begins when Bats is on fire after being sprayed with the fear toxin. But, to me, the fall in TDK are given a pass because of the suit and Batman's cape. If Bruce Wayne had an SCI and vertebrae out of place prior to that fall, then I'd definitely call BS.

What I meant about Croc and Grundy being different was that, if Croc broke Batman's back, he wouldn't just throw Bats off a building and own the city, if Killer Croc broke Batman's back and Batman was lying there, Croc would eat him, literally.

And, if Grundy broke the Bat, and Batman was just lying there, something really insane would happen, I can't even find the word for it because it's Grundy, but in both cases Batman wouldn't survive

And, having Batman's back broken is crucial to the Knightfall arc, that's why Bane rocks, imo. Bane wants to beat Batman and take Gotham, but he wasn't really concerned with making sure Batman was dead, he was more concerned with letting Bruce Wayne know that he outsmarted him and also beat him physically. He exhausted Bats and then took him down: TDKRises got a lot right about Bane too, I think Hardy was awesome and Bane was cool.

But, I have a vision I want to see in my head, and that's really why I would love to see Bane again
DrKinsolving
DrKinsolving - 6/16/2015, 11:19 AM
I have to admit too, I don't really get the "copy and paste all my comments in your comment" approach to commenting, haha

I wrote what I said, you know, so, I know what I said

But, to each his own
MisterSuperior
MisterSuperior - 6/16/2015, 12:13 PM
@DrKinsolving

"I have to admit too, I don't really get the "copy and paste all my comments in your comment" approach to commenting, haha"

When comments become longer to reply, I prefer to do it that way so I don't forget what I am even replying about, lol...I tend to do multiple things whenever I have time go to on the 'net, so it helps me out, lol. Sorry though, haha.

"Haha, yeah man, I was relating that fall more to the fall in Batman begins when Bats is on fire after being sprayed with the fear toxin. But, to me, the fall in TDK are given a pass because of the suit and Batman's cape. If Bruce Wayne had an SCI and vertebrae out of place prior to that fall, then I'd definitely call BS."

This is common. The film you like more, you give a pass to. I guess this is why, even though I give the Dent situation a pass, I still hate it far more than what happened to Bruce because of what I know, such as what you know.

Although, I would love an AU story where Rachel dies when she fell on the taxi, haha.

"What I meant about Croc and Grundy being different was that, if Croc broke Batman's back, he wouldn't just throw Bats off a building and own the city, if Killer Croc broke Batman's back and Batman was lying there, Croc would eat him, literally.

And, if Grundy broke the Bat, and Batman was just lying there, something really insane would happen, I can't even find the word for it because it's Grundy, but in both cases Batman wouldn't survive

And, having Batman's back broken is crucial to the Knightfall arc, that's why Bane rocks, imo. Bane wants to beat Batman and take Gotham, but he wasn't really concerned with making sure Batman was dead, he was more concerned with letting Bruce Wayne know that he outsmarted him and also beat him physically. He exhausted Bats and then took him down: TDKRises got a lot right about Bane too, I think Hardy was awesome and Bane was cool.

But, I have a vision I want to see in my head, and that's really why I would love to see Bane again"

I still think you're misunderstanding me about my idea along the lines of no venom-induced Bane. I am not speaking of Batman getting his back broken, but just severely beaten up, and perhaps locked up in a cell in Arkham or a makeshift prison in Gotham, lol.

But, I see that you obviously want to see a 100% adaptation to Knightfall and I'm not referring to that, lol. But with that, I don't see a rightful adaptation anyways, and only in animated form.
DrKinsolving
DrKinsolving - 6/16/2015, 12:31 PM
@MisterSuperior

Not a 100% adaptation, that's not realistic, because comics and movies are totally different mediums. I already said that venom isn't needed.

But, one of the most important aspects of Knightfall is Batman having his back broken, there are a lot of other core aspects that need to be included, but that is the catalyst for Knightfall, that needs to be included. Things like how Batman recovers and how his back heals can definitely be changed, so can a lot of other parts of the story.

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