What Makes A Good Villain?

What Makes A Good Villain?

Nihilism, Pacifism, Death, Love.... What makes a villain interesting? Is it our fascination with good and evil, and right or wrong? Is it relating to a fictional character on a human level and understanding their mindset and actions? Check out my thoughts after the jump....

Editorial Opinion
By EricBorder - Sep 05, 2015 08:09 AM EST
Filed Under: Comics

I started watching “Narcos” this weekend on Netflix and it’s a really good show.  The portrayal of Pablo Escobar got me thinking about villains, and about something Adam Driver said during Comic Con this year,
 
Driver said,

“We didn’t have a lot of conversations about ‘bad’ or ‘evil’ when we were shooting. It was more, what do you think is the difference between being bad, and being right? Someone who thinks they’re right is something different, that’s almost more evil, a group of people who’ve decided that they’re morally justified in behaving a certain way.”  (Click Here for more)

 
Let’s dissect this a little and take a look at some of our favorite villains
 
The Joker
 
My favorite villain and comic book character may seem like a Joke at first but when you look a little deeper and get to know the character, he is far from just some guy who smiles and looks like he could own a circus.
 
One of The Joker’s strongest ideations is that one bad day can cause anyone to completely break and go insane.  This is one of the coolest mindsets for a villain because the motivation behind his actions relies on proving that “life can break your heart, life can break your soul, and life can turn you completely and utterly insane”.  This is a perfect contrast to Batman’s ideation, “life can break your soul, but it should never break your spirit”.
 


 
Within The Joker you have the makings of a perfect villain.  If you’re sane, he wants to make you insane.  If you’re insane, he wants to keep you as a pet and use you as a pawn.  If you’re scared, he wants you to realize how big of a Joke life really is, he wants you to see the funny side of life, he wants to break your heart.
 

 
If you’re Batman he just wants to have some fun.  That fun can involve beating his sidekicks to death with a tire iron, paralyzing the daughter of his ally, cutting off the right hand of Batman’s right hand man, or taking enough muscle relaxant pills and using pigmentation to conceal his identity in plain site of The Batman.  Completely outsmarting The Bat in the process.

Thanos
 

 
Thanos is another character that has the makings of a great villain.
 
Pacifism
 
Nihilism
 
Love
 
Death
 
To the uninitiated and uninformed Thanos may look like a purple Hellboy in armor, but to the initiated and informed Thanos is a nihilist that is obsessed with the concept of Death and is willing to commit genocide on his own people.
 
He was born with grey skin and a massive body due to deviant syndrome.  Thanos was an ill-tempered child that became obsessed with the concept of Death in his early years.  He was able to augment his Eternal strengths through meditation, as he grew in power, his thirst for conquest and domination increased.  He stole a starship, traveled to other star systems and recruited an entire army, and nuked is home world Titan killing thousands including his mother, Sui-San.
 
Thanos eventually met the embodiment of Death itself and fell in love.  To make himself worthy of Death’s love, Thanos seized control of extremely powerful items like the Cosmic Cube, the Infinity Stones, and ultimately the Infinity Gauntlet attempting to destroy and conquer to gain the affection of Death.
 
Once again, one of the most interesting aspects to Thanos and why he is such a good villain is because he believes that he is right
 
Thanos’ mother, Sui-San tried to kill Thanos at first sight.  The doctor’s actually had to sedate his mother as ordered by the Eternal Mentor.  Thanos went on to be the smartest child in his school and a pacifist that was isolated because of his looks due to deviant syndrome.
 
In the story Thanos Rising, Thanos is falsely accused and believed by the people of Titan to have murdered his friends.  With his friends now dead, Thanos was isolated and alone once again.  In retrospect, Thanos believes that he could have saved his friends if he dropped his overly passive nature.  This led Thanos  on the path to becoming the Mad Titan.
 
Thanos is a very relatable character.  In a way, he has gotten the short end of the stick since birth but instead of wallowing in self-pitty, he decides to make something of himself.  Every time Thanos fails or his plans are destroyed, he either returns to that ill-tempered child or he is taught a lesson by Adam Warlock returning him to his overly passive nature.
 

 
One thing is for sure, Thanos believes that he is right and he has the power and intelligence to attract others to his cause and destroy those that interfere.
 
Nihilism is an important belief for both the Joker and Thanos and it plays an important part in their stories and motivations.  How do you truly defeat someone that believes life has no objective meaning, purpose, or intrinsic value?
 
A recent comic book movie example of how the villain is simply evil for the sake of being, evil, is Malekith The Accursed from Thor: The Dark World.  The movie in itself was not a bad movie but Malekith suffered from being an underdeveloped villain with poorly explained ideals and motivations that was portrayed to perfection by actor, Christopher Eccleston.  The movie also chose to leave out the history behind Malekith, why his face was scarred in the comics, and why he believes that War is inevitable and that there will always be war.
 
A good fictional villain is more than just a news story, he’s more than just a monster, and he’s more than just a bad individual.  A good fictional villain has as much soul and as much spirit as the hero, and one of the most entertaining things to watch on screen is to see either the villain take the heroes spirit away or to see the hero slowly crush the villains hopes and dreams.
 
Either way, somebody is going to get their heart broken.

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DerekLake
DerekLake - 9/5/2015, 10:14 AM
A good villain needs background and motive and ideology and characterization, the same things that a good protagonist needs. But what seems to be the common tendency is to either fail to develop a villain, by relying solely on the character's external traits or general badness (TDKR's Bane, Thor's Malekith), or to so humanize the villain that s/he ceases to actually be a villain (Loki). Or, they try to give a character motivation but it doesn't actually line up with the character's actions (IM3's Killian).

These are some of the reasons why TDK's Joker and Daredevil's Kingpin are two of the best villains depicted in live action to date. Joker was given sufficient motivation and characterization for him to make sense and be compelling, while an intentionally muddled background made him all the more compelling. At the same time, Marvel's Kingpin was given an exhaustive background that worked to humanize him without making him any less of an antagonist, and he was given sufficient motivation for his actions to make sense.

Both Marvel and DC movies have benefited from these sorts of developed characters, and suffered when they weren't developed. Here's hoping that characters like the Joker and Thanos get the development they deserve.
SimplyAz
SimplyAz - 9/5/2015, 10:26 AM
Sometime's you just want a scary and evil villlain who is unstoppable, and one who you don't know a lot about.

In my opinion forcing the villain to have a sad story can be annoying but is effective if used correctly.

Two of my favourtire Villains are:

Anton Chigurh:



Unstoppable and evil, he seems to enjoy killing and makes him dangerous, great performance by Javier Bardem.




A villain that scared me as a child, who is programmed to kill and will not stop until it is done.
LEVITIKUZ
LEVITIKUZ - 9/5/2015, 10:32 AM
What makes a good villain?

Performance, writing, how they connect to the hero symbolically, chemistry with the hero, and leaves you wanting more.

It's why Heath's Joker and Molina's Doc Ock are the 2 best comic book villains and likely will never be topped.



LEVITIKUZ
LEVITIKUZ - 9/5/2015, 10:37 AM
I've said it before and will say it again, I find Thanos overrated a bit because of this reason:

Thanos eventually met the embodiment of Death itself and fell in love. To make himself worthy of Death’s love, Thanos seized control of extremely powerful items like the Cosmic Cube, the Infinity Stones, and ultimately the Infinity Gauntlet attempting to destroy and conquer to gain the affection of Death.

And we see Death turning Thanos down to be with...



Even though Thanos put a curse on Deadpool so he'll never be with Death, it makes Thanos far more silly that the girl he loves isn't in love with him but in love with Deadpool.

It's like if Darkseid did all he does for Granny Goodness and we learn Granny doesn't love him but loves Boaster Gold.
LEVITIKUZ
LEVITIKUZ - 9/5/2015, 10:47 AM
To the uninitiated and uninformed Thanos may look like a purple Hellboy in armor

That's an insult to Hellboy. What separates Thanos from Hellboy is Hellboy isn't a love sick puppy and doesn't need silly little kidney stones and a glove to destroy everyone.

He already has that power in the right hand of doom which is the key to opening Hell bringing about Armageddon.



Still thumbed your article.
EricBorder
EricBorder - 9/5/2015, 10:49 AM
@WakandasSoul

Thanks, I totally agree with a lot of what your saying, but without some sort of belief system, villains and characters in general can come off very bland in my opinion.

In a sense, The Joker did have a backstory in the Dark Knight. He kept you guessing and they made a point to bring this out throughout the movie. Even his clothes were custom.

One of the major characteristics of the Joker in TDK were his beliefs and his mindset and why he was doing what he was doing, and I feel like that was why he was such a good villain.

Lex is a narcissist and has an ego that is as big as Superman’s heart. He’s also extremely intelligent and he has a superiority complex.

Lex also believes that Superman is a threat in more ways than one and it’s this belief that drives him.

Superman is Lex Luthor’s nightmare, and Lex needs to do something about it.

I disagree about Lex not being a threat to Batman or an interesting foe, like the time when Wayne severed ties with Luthor in protest of his election and in return Luthor arranged the murder of Vesper Fairchild and framed Wayne.
EricBorder
EricBorder - 9/5/2015, 10:53 AM
@LexHairFight

Thanks, I'll definitely check out that video.

@LEVITIKUZ

Thanks, and no offense to Hellboy man, I was just using that analogy before I've heard it before, I felt it was based on looks more than anything substantial

I feel like all of the Deadpool stories are kind of just side stories though, I don't really let them affect how I feel about the other characters involved because their mainly there to focus on Deadpool and his antics
EricBorder
EricBorder - 9/5/2015, 11:37 AM
@WakandasSoul

Cool, right on man. Yeah, can't wait to see all of these guys on screen next year
Ghostpointzero
Ghostpointzero - 9/5/2015, 1:19 PM
For me the best villains are the ones who make a hero question his morality and his or her reason for existing. I have a thing for Big Bads though.

Darth Vader

Sauron

Zod

Bane

Kingpin

DallasAvenger
DallasAvenger - 9/5/2015, 2:13 PM
I love a good villain, but I love the heroes so much more, they are far more interesting to me. My favorite supervillains are Thanos, Two-Face, Apocalypse, Mephisto, Sinestro, Ra's al Ghul, and Loki.
imkennypowers
imkennypowers - 9/5/2015, 2:23 PM
"One of The Joker’s strongest ideations is that one bad day can cause anyone to completely break and go insane. This is one of the coolest mindsets for a villain because the motivation behind his actions relies on proving that “life can break your heart, life can break your soul, and life can turn you completely and utterly insane”."

"A good fictional villain is more than just a news story, he’s more than just a monster, and he’s more than just a bad individual. A good fictional villain has as much soul and as much spirit as the hero, and one of the most entertaining things to watch on screen is to see either the villain take the heroes spirit away or to see the hero slowly crush the villains hopes and dreams.

Either way, somebody is going to get their heart broken."

Both of this great points are what made Walter White/Heisenberg such a solid villain. His initial intent/motive for making/selling meth was solely based on doing what he believed was best for his family. In the beginning, Walt conceded that his cancer would kill him, so the money was for his family's future without him.
However, Walt gradually succumbed to the temptation/disease of money/power/greed/hubris that coincided with his ascension up the ranks of drug kingpin. Heisenberg began as an alias to hide Walt's identity, but as Walt grew deeper in the drug trade and ascended the ranks, Heisenberg became an alter ego that eventually consumed Walt.
What begin with good intentions, to raise money for his family, albeit extremely illegal/dangerous, slowly then quickly spiraled into evil and selfish intentions. Which Walt eventually realized and confessed to Skylar. Walt/Heisenberg's character arc and progression from good-evil is one of the greatest, most tragic, intense, fascinating and engaging stories of all-time.

Vince Gilligan and Bryan Cranston could not believe how many people still liked Walt and considered him a "good guy" by the end of the series. There were people who overlooked all the bad/evil things he done bc of his initially good intentions/motives. It's a testament to how well written the character & show were and how engaging & fascinating the character Walt & the show truly are. More shows & movies need to take all the notes from Breaking Bad for how to write great villains. Not only was Walt/Heisenberg a great story about a good man becoming a great villain, there were other great villains throughout the series from Tuco to Mike to Gus Fring to Don Eladio. All, to some degree, believed their intentions/motives were good and/or right, despite their involvement in the illegal drug trade.

And very well written post & solid points made! Obviously, I agree with a lot of what you wrote. And it goes without typing, it was thought-provoking considering my lengthy input/response. haha.
MyNameIsKhan
MyNameIsKhan - 9/5/2015, 2:28 PM
@ImKennyPowers Gus Fring/Two Face was my fave character on BB and I agree.
sups92
sups92 - 9/5/2015, 2:41 PM
Sorry, but the only good Marvel villain is Loki.
13echo
13echo - 9/5/2015, 3:07 PM
What makes a good villain besides being evil they are also interesting,charismatic, and aluring you know they are bad but you can't help but like them Loki,Joker,Vader,Trump. They all have that thing you love to hate.
RexBlazer1
RexBlazer1 - 9/5/2015, 3:11 PM
Shall I be honest about my opinion concerning villains? I've always felt that there are mainly two kinds:

1. The kind who do bad things and don't care.
2. The kind who believe that their actions are justified.

I personally can seem to decide which is the worse of the two, as it could really be argued either way. I have noticed that we've seen A LOT of the second kind in recent years, to the point where I'm starting to feel that it's overused. And there is at least one thing you can appreciate about the first kind; they have no illusions about what they want or what they're doing.

Which do you guys think is worse?
CombatWombat
CombatWombat - 9/5/2015, 3:21 PM
Someone has got to do something about these idiot false reporters...

CombatWombat
CombatWombat - 9/5/2015, 3:22 PM
*COUGH* @NateBest *COUGH*
kakinurmawth
kakinurmawth - 9/5/2015, 3:28 PM
This may seem to contradict itself but I think Fisk is one of the best villians out there and also the worst.

The best - because him and Murdock are so alike its scary. Throughout all of Daredevil we see Murdock struggling with how far will he go. Fisk has already decided. Nothing will get in Fisk's way and he'll do anything to make sure he gets his way. Murdock is the exact same way, but how does he differentiate himself from Fisk? How can Murdock call himself a good guy when Fisk is so close to being who he is? THAT is what makes a great villain. A great villain not only says why he is a villain but also says so much about the protagonist and who the protagonist is.

Loki, The Joker and Ultron are all on that level of Fisk, granted not as developed.

The worst - his personality/attitude. Fisk, although was a great test/struggle emotionally, spiritually and physically for Murdock, HE WAS A GIANT ANGRY BABY. I was always so annoyed when he was on screen. I can only compare this to how and why people think Ultron was a terrible villain.

Now, I understand Fisk's [frick]ed up background, and as someone said in another thread, forgive me for forgetting who, Fisk's emotional growth stopped when he killed his father. That's a stretch. You don't stop your emotional growth, if anything your morality is lost and you become a sociopath.

So for Fisk to loose his temper as a child would all the time, he never came across as intimidating or scary. I wanted to slap him across the face and say "get a hold of yourself you [frick]ing baby!" Sociopaths grow up and mature, they just don't give a [frick] about anyone. I wish they went that route with Fisk, cause he would be way more scary then.

Could you imagine a conscious-less Fisk? One who literally feels no emotions, doesn't understand them at all. THAT is [frick]ing scary and would be such a trip to watch on screen. Literally Fisk would never feel fear or loss or love. Talk about being the perfect anti-Murdock. THinking about it it would be like a mix between Dexter and Fisk. [frick] that shit. I would hate to be Murdock going against THAT guy.

Anyway. I hope I was able to get across the two parts of Fisk I love and hate hahaha

GREAT ARTICLE @EricBorder

ArtisticErotic
ArtisticErotic - 9/5/2015, 3:34 PM
Darkseid is my favorite Superman/DC Universe villain. Physically powerful, physiologically smart and cunning.

ArtisticErotic
ArtisticErotic - 9/5/2015, 3:47 PM
Also I like Villains that stick by their word to the bitter end.

Zod in Man Of Steel was general gone mad with this extreme views on what Krypton should be.




Deathstroke/Slade from Arrow he made Oliver a Promise and ended up killing his mother, taking away his only blood related voice of reason. A shame Arrow will never be that good again what they did with Slade in season 3 was just a major let down.






DrKinsolving
DrKinsolving - 9/5/2015, 3:50 PM
Awesome article. Joker and Thanos are both great characters in general and villains.

This was a really fun read man, Thumbs up
BestAtWhatIDo
BestAtWhatIDo - 9/5/2015, 4:08 PM
I liked Zod's characterization in MOS on paper, but his dialogue was all such clunky exposition and Michael Shannon was so lost and flat in the role that he didn't really come alive until his final face-off with Superman, by which point it was too late to salvage the character.
SecNotSure
SecNotSure - 9/5/2015, 4:14 PM
@EricBorder

What makes the article for me is Snidely Whiplash... nice touch.
EricBorder
EricBorder - 9/5/2015, 4:35 PM
Wow, you guys made my night!!!!

Thanks for all the comments
EricBorder
EricBorder - 9/5/2015, 5:00 PM
@kakinurmawth @CombatWombat @dethpillow @ImKennyPowers @LEVITIKUZ @SimplyAz @LexHairFight @DerekLake

@WakandasSoul @SecNotSure

Awesome stuff. Thanks! Snidely sends his regards :)

Ghostpointzero
Ghostpointzero - 9/5/2015, 5:32 PM
Personally I think Joker is overrated. Bane, Ra's Ah Ghul, Blackmask, Hush and Two-Face are much more compelling IMO.

Joker is great when used every so often, when they keep using him over and over his effectiveness as a villain starts to wear off. Same with Lex Luthor to Superman, Darkseid, Doomsday, Brianiac are so much better.

Castiglione
Castiglione - 9/6/2015, 6:08 AM
Awesome article

Can't wait to see Thanos in Infinity Wars
kinghulk
kinghulk - 9/6/2015, 6:22 AM
thanos has a lot of potential as a villain in infinity wars and i will be very pissed of if marvel screw him over, they have a good actor in the role all they need to do is give him plenty of screen time and some character above just being unstoppable. i hope we see death in the film.
tonytony
tonytony - 9/6/2015, 7:23 AM
Sorry but everubody knows marvel has crappy villains. Stop trying to piggyback on dc
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