TDKR original villain was KILLER CROC!

Editorial Opinion
By rr - Jul 27, 2012 09:07 PM EST
Filed Under: Fan Fic

I was watching an old episode of Batman TAS, one with Killer Croc framing Harvey Bullock, and it suddenly hit me, THE NOLAN'S WROTE THE TDKR SCRIPT WITH KILLER CROC AS THE MAIN VILLAIN, NOT BAIN. Having watched TDKR several times, and it being a great film, I just kept getting this feeling that something was amiss ; something just didn’t fit right especially with Bain’s origin and backstory. In fact, the movie seemed like to two different ideas sown together.

Why make the last minute villain-change? My thought is, due to a conflict with the Spiderman movie having a similar villain, the studio must’ve forced Nolan to replace Croc with Bain. Here is my reasoning:

1) The most obvious reason is that majority of the movie was filmed in a complex sewer system where Bain setup his lair. I couldn’t understand why Bain would choose the sewer system and not someplace above ground. If the villain were Croc, it would’ve been the perfect setting for his lair

2) The relationship between Talia and her protector (Bain) would've been much more significant and a lot deeper if it were a deformed creature that her father could not accept. I can easily understand why Ra’s Al Ghul would excommunicate a psychopathic, deformed creature to protect his daughter, and it would’ve made much more sense in the movie.

3) When Batman defeats Bain, he punches his mask making it hard for him to breathe. Seriously?? Bain is defeated due to a broken mask?? This would’ve been much more fitting if Batman drowned Croc or if Croc had some sort of breathing apparatus that Batman broke in order to defeat him. Also, the mask that Bain wore almost looked like jagged teeth of a Crocodile.

4) The plot to blow up the city wasn’t very Nolanesque. Nolan likes to use complex characters that are realistically grounded. It would’ve been fitting if a deformed mercenary named Killer Croc used the city’s complex sewer system to try to destroy it, something the League of Shadows or Ra’s Al Ghul would do, like causing an Economic collapse or turning the water supply into toxic gas so the city would tear itself apart. I think the bomb idea was quickly sown together for Bain.

5) There was even a joke made by "Robin" Blake when asked by Bruce why he hadn't gone to the police with info on Bain’s sewer system, Blake says, "they asked me if I had seen any giant alligators." Who else immediately thought of Croc?(This was probably Nolan's way of letting the true fans know of his intentions)

I think the movie as-is, is still a great film and it gets better every time I watch it. However, I think the movie would've made a lot more sense if Croc were the villain, with the plot being along the lines of him trying to destroy the city by flooding it. In fact, in one of the scenes, they flooded the chamber where the bomb was originally placed. I just think that there were too many references to water in TDKR for Croc not to be in the movie. Also, when the first rumors for the movie were coming out, there were reports on CBM that Nolan wanted to use a villain never used before and was in fact using Croc.

Is it just me or does anyone else see this?

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Supes17
Supes17 - 7/27/2012, 10:03 PM
The first 2 points were pretty strong...
pieralnett
pieralnett - 7/27/2012, 10:05 PM
uhm... wow
RexDartEskimoSpy
RexDartEskimoSpy - 7/27/2012, 10:09 PM
I like your ideas, young mam, and wish to subscribe to your newsletter.
AshleyWilliams
AshleyWilliams - 7/27/2012, 10:24 PM
Hmmmmm
CanadaMan
CanadaMan - 7/27/2012, 10:26 PM
Interesting points...
Jaywing
Jaywing - 7/27/2012, 10:39 PM
Nice enthusiasm but.... No. TASM and TDKR came out around the same time... You think the Nolan's and Webb were comparing scripts to make sure they didn't have similar villains? And Nolan's killer croc wouldn't have been anything like webbs and he's Christopher Nolan... So if he wanted to use killer croc he would have. When batman knocks banes mask its not making it difficult for bane to breath. He starts to feel pain... There is no way the Nolan's would change their script last minute like that.
LP4
LP4 - 7/28/2012, 1:28 AM
Only points #1 and #5 seemed strong/solid. Look at "Batman Returns" my favorite CBM, Burton re-imagined Penguin to have attributes of Killer Croc hence that version of Penguin lived in the sewers as well.

Just because Bane was in the sewer doesn't mean it was meant to be Croc in the film. Filmmakers tend to take "creative justices" with CBMs.

But still like I said- reasons #1 & #5 were your best ones. When Blake mentioned giant alligators I too instantly thought of Killer Croc
LP4
LP4 - 7/28/2012, 1:31 AM
Killer Croc would have been epic though, better than Bane.

Plus getting both Croc in TDKR and The Lizard in TASM in 1 year would have been awesome
kong
kong - 7/28/2012, 4:58 AM
@JokerFanhahaha
The crocodile thing wasn't just a joke refurring to the rumors in new York, it was a reference to Killer Croc of course in the movie it was just a rumor, but it wasmanreference to killer croc
BarnaclePete
BarnaclePete - 7/28/2012, 6:12 AM
Just you . . . I don't get why you don't like the fact that Batman took down Bane by damaging his mask. That is exactly how he is always beat in the comics. Only difference is that his venom is cut off in the comics.
BarnaclePete
BarnaclePete - 7/28/2012, 7:22 AM
Also, just wanted to add that the reason Bane was. In the sewers was to position himself underneath Wayne Tower so he could steal the armory.
95
95 - 7/28/2012, 8:25 AM
Wow. I'm surprised. You actually make great points (#1, #3, #5). A little convincing, but ultimately no. Fact is:

Bane is the most iconic physical challenge of the Batman mythos, and is connected with the League Of Shadows and Talia al Ghul. That is why he was chosen. Almost in a Mutant Leader role. Using the sewers were logical in his plans to steal Wayne's armory and move around the city quickly, and in the shadows/darkness. Plus, it sticks with the "Rising" theme — Bane lurks underground before he rises up as Gotham City's dictator.

Couldn't imagine Christopher Nolan scripting the name "Killer Croc" into a script anyway.
CorndogBurglar
CorndogBurglar - 7/28/2012, 9:21 AM
Like someone else said, Bane went underground so he could steal Wayne's armory. Also, no. If Nolan went so far out of his way to make all the villains in these movies as realistic as possible, then there is no way in hell he would even think of using Croc. Sorry, but no.
Morbius
Morbius - 7/28/2012, 11:08 AM
Pretty good points but learn how to spell!!!!! Its BANE!!!!!!
Altair
Altair - 7/28/2012, 12:21 PM
Yeah it's a well written editorial but no way.
AgentZero
AgentZero - 7/28/2012, 1:30 PM
Are you kidding me ? And they say DUMB people do not exist.
You and all those who agreed with you or said you made some good points are complete IDIOTS. Stupidity is an understatement for you all.
Nolan's Batman is grounded on the concept of realism. That's why Bane isn't a huge monstrosity or Ras Al Ghul isn't immortal in the literal sense of the word or The Joker wasn't disfigured in some chemical waste.
So the likes of Killer Croc were out question from the get-go.
SteveBosell
SteveBosell - 7/28/2012, 1:30 PM
If you guys remember 'Gotham Knight' Killer Croc does make a short cameo appearance. Killer Croc is definitely apart of Nolan's universe just as Deadshot and Penguin are as well. Deadshot was in 'Gotham Knight' and The Iceberg Lounge was mentioned in TDK virals.
SteveBosell
SteveBosell - 7/28/2012, 1:33 PM
I really wish WB would make another 'Gotham Knight' anime-style movie. I think that would be the best way to keep the Nolan Batman alive without harming the trilogy.
95
95 - 7/28/2012, 2:34 PM
@AgentZero He explained his points well. Even if it contradicts Christopher Nolan's "grounded approach". By the way, there have been "realistic" approaches to Killer Croc in the comics. Read up. Given that Bane has taken Mutant Leader's role, elements could of been borrowed from Killer Croc as well. And I don't think you're in any position to call people "stupid".
Gotg203
Gotg203 - 7/28/2012, 6:39 PM
Wow I thought I was the only one noticing the killer croc mention NIce article!
superbatspiderman
superbatspiderman - 7/28/2012, 7:02 PM
First thing it is spelled Bane not Bain. Bain is the company Mitt Romney used to be a part of.

I like how Nolan references other villains in the Batman universe without actually mentioning them.

For instance.

1. In the Dark Knight when Lucious tells Batman's suit would do fine against cats. That is a blatant Catwoman reference.
2. The one you mentioned when John Blake says the cops asked if there was a Croc in the sewer.
3. When Bruce first sees Lucious in TDKR in his office and Lucious asks Bruce "have you come out of cryogenic sleep" which I think means there is cryogenic sleep in there universe which could be a reference to Mr. Freeze. I know it sounds ludicrous but it is cool to think of.
Darkknight2149
Darkknight2149 - 7/28/2012, 7:56 PM
The giant alligator reference, I believe, was a reference to Killer Croc but I don't think he was the original villain. Most people forget that an animated film set in the Nolanverse (more specifically in between the events of Batman Begins and The Dark Knight) titled Batman: Gotham Knight was made, released in 2009. It included 3 villains from the comics, one of them being Croc (who battled Batman in a sewer). So we know Croc is in the Nolanverse. The other 2 villains are Scarecrow and Deadshot. Before showing Scarecrow, in a conversation between Batman and Jim Gordon (at that time not yet Comissioner) they reference a scene from Batman Begins, show Crime Boss Maroni before the events of Dark Knight and involves Scarecrow as a judge courting an innocent man to death (the man being saved by Batman) in a sewer. So we also know Scarecrow was courting innocent people to death as a judge years before The Dark Knight Rises, in which we get scenes of him doing that.
golden123
golden123 - 7/28/2012, 9:42 PM
1) Others have already explained this. Bane used the sewer strategically, so he could break into Wayne Enterprise's Armory. Also, Bane's criminal empire wasn't exactly as organized as the mob. Before the Blackgate breakout, Bane mainly used mercenaries, League of Shadows's members, and lowlifes as henchmen. It was like a society of criminals as opposed to the business like way the mob seemed to work. The mob would meet in shiny white rooms, and they would carry out their luxurious lifestyles while Bane's crew dwelled in the sewers. I think the hiding, in the sewers, represented the "fall from grace" that crime in Gotham witnessed, and Bane and friends liberating Gotham, from out of the sewers, represented the criminals "rising". I think it was a metaphor, in a sense. I don't believe the usage of the sewers had much to do with Killer Croc.

2) In the comics, Bane and Talia had a relationship. Bane has been a member of the League of Asassins. Ra's Al Ghul has believed Bane to be a worthy heir. On the other hand, Killer Croc has never, to my knowledge, held a conversation with Ra's or Talia. I doubt Killer Croc has ever been in the same panel as either of the two, except maybey in a group photo of all of Batman's rouges. If Bane has a history with the League in the comics, then it makes sense that they would use Bane instead of Killer Croc. Besides, Ra's Al Ghul wasn't frustrated that Bane was taking care of his daughter. He was frustrated that his wife had been sent into the Hellhole. Talia's guardian possessing reptilian features would of had little effect on the story.

3)As others have pointed out, Batman breaking Bane's mask didn't make it harder for Bane to breath. The device controlled the painkillers that entered his body. Bane was severly injured by the Leagues attack on the Hellhole. The instrument gave him painkillers to inhale, so Bane wouldn't feel pain. As soon as Batman damaged Bane's apparatus, Bane was weakened by all the agony. The painkillers are the Dark Knight Trilogy's version of Venom. Bane being weakened, by damaging his device, is from the comics. Why would Killer Croc have a breathing apparatus, anyways? Unlike Bane, Killer Croc has never used instruments, of any similarity, in the comics. Also, If you encourage the use of imagination on Bane's mask, then I think it looks more like fingers of a skeleton or scars than it does Crocidile teeth. Crocodile teeth is the most far fetched conclusion you have come up with.

4)If Ra's Al Ghul had access to a nuclear bomb, then I would suspect that he would use it. Telling citizens that they have three months to live, before a nuclear bomb goes off, is alot easier than filling the water supply with fear toxin for weeks and using a microwave emitter to evaporate the water, so the fear toxin can be taken in through the lungs. Both methods have the citizens scared for their lives. Both methods result in a lot of death. Both methods end in Gotham's destruction; however, one is easier than the other. Besides, it would be deemed as "lame" if the same plan was used twice.

5) I doubt this was a reference to Killer Croc. I do believe it is a reference to the urban legends, in big cities (particularly NYC), that alligators (exaggerated in size) dwell in the sewers. Even if it was a reference to Killer Croc, then it doesn't mean Nolan originally intended him to be in the movie. In Batman Begins, Bruce has a line, "To all of you, uh, all you phonies, all of you two-faced friends". That doesn't mean Two-Face was originally going to be in that movie. In The Dark Knight, Lucius Fox has a line, "Should do fine against cats". That doesn't mean Catwoman was originally going to be in the film.
CorndogBurglar
CorndogBurglar - 7/29/2012, 6:33 AM
As far as people mentioning Gotham Knight, you guys realize that is just a way for them to use some villains people want without Nolan actually having to use them in a movie, right? You cant take any of that as canon, especially since none of it is mentioned in the films.
johnblake
johnblake - 7/29/2012, 11:07 AM
GOTHAM KNIGHTS IS CANON
AlexRival
AlexRival - 7/29/2012, 5:08 PM
*Bane
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