Ror Revisits: Hulk

Ror Revisits: Hulk

Ang Lee's take on Marvel's Green Goliath has to be one of the most despised CBMs out there among the fan community. But is it really that bad?..

Review Opinion
By MarkCassidy - May 10, 2010 11:05 AM EST
Filed Under: Hulk

I've been wanting to do this one for a while now because it always provokes debate and I also wanted an excuse to watch Hulk again because to be honest I could never really understand the hostility towards it. Well, I watched it and I still don't! In fact if anything I think Lee's movie may even be an all round better film than Louis Letterier's recent re/boot/make/quel.

I've heard it all before.."not enough action, too focused on drama, silly Hulk dogs!" ..and I'm sure we will have it all again in the comments section, but regardless of its flaws..and they are many no doubt..Hulk is a very good movie. The story is of course an origin for the big fella. Bruce Banner is involved in a terrible accident which turns him into a rampaging monster. His on again/off again girlfriend Betty Ross seeks to help him control the beast within, but her father General "Thunderbolt" Ross believes him to be too dangerous to allow to live. So aided by a slimy git ex of Betty's, Glenn Talbot, who wants to harness Hulk's power as a weapon, they capture him..big mistake. Thats a very simplified version of the plot of course, but thats the part that I reckon the fanboys didn't have much of a problem with. Its the daddy issues. In this version of the story, the Hulk was already a part of banner before the accident because his father, David, experimented on himself and the genes passed on to his son. They also make Banner Sr the main antagonist, turning him into a version of The Absorbing Man by the end of the movie. Its a pretty big liberty sure, but for the most part its still works in the confines of this particular narrative. People also have issue with the look of The Hulk, complaining that he is too big as he grows as he gets angrier. He does maybe get a tad on the ginormous side at times but many artists have drawn Hulk with varying size..and if you think he looked too big in this movie, check out Mark Millar and Steve McNiven's incarnation of him in Old Man Logan! And the dogs, yeah so they don't really work that well. But not because they are a ridiculous idea, again, just look to the comics if you think its too over the top, its just not set up properly and comes out of nowhere. My point is, if writers and artists retcon, change, and downright contradict others at times then why does the fan community go into such an uproar when a film maker does it? Unless they are basing their film around a self contained story like Watchmen or something, there really is no definitive version of a comic character that has seen so many incarnations. Of course there are certain things that are always associated with the character, the essence if you like, but I find that a lot of the time the movies get this right, but the changes they do make cause enough frustration and anger to obscure any good work done.

Performances are great pretty much all round. Some felt Eric Bana was miscast as Bruce Banner but I though he was spot on...if at times a bit dry. Jennifer Connelly excels as Betty Ross as does Sam Elliot as her Father. People make fun of Nick Nolte's manic turn but I loved it! David Banner comes across as a completely insane but strangely sympathetic villain. The only performance I didn't like was Josh Lucas as Talbot. He's not bad exactly, just seems to go from naught to eeeeevil far too quickly and he hams it up a bit.



Basically Ang Lee set out to make a thoughtful, deep drama and he succeeded. He is more interested in telling the story behind the Hulk's rage than showing the effects of it..the problem is that the character just doesn't lend itself to too much of that. What he does best is smash, and thats where the film falls flat. What action there is is done very well, Hulk doling out some serious smackdown to some tanks being the highlight, but their really should have been more of it. Still, I just can't get on a films case for being "too dramatic". Its not possible. When one scene(David Banner's revelation to Betty of what happened to his wife, and subsequently Bruce..see above) packs more of an emotional punch that an entire "improved" movie by Monsieur Letterier you know which film I'm going to lean towards. I don't want to go into the reboot too much because I'm sure I'll be revisiting it at some point but I will say that it is just as good as Lee's film for very different reasons. I always say a perfect Hulk movie would combine the strengths of both.

Anyway, give Hulk another bash..you might be surprised at how much you enjoy it!

Check out all of my reviews and revisits here



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LEEE777
LEEE777 - 5/10/2010, 12:02 PM
I enjoyed it the first time!

Ang's HULK was never bad!!

Problem with THE HULK is it turned kids off and the brainless as well!

HULK was a deep story about RAGE 'n' stuff...

Saying that the giant poodle sucked still! : P

Cool marking!

(Hopefully we'll get our INCREDIBLE HULK II with the LEADER!)

I still rate Marvel's INCREDIBLE HULK over IRON MAN 2!
WillComic
WillComic - 5/10/2010, 12:02 PM
It could extinguish this of the list of films of marvel
answer
answer - 5/10/2010, 12:07 PM
@Ror, not enough action, too focused on drama, silly Hulk dogs! :P

Nah i'm just taking the piss. I found my DVD of this the other day. Maybe I'll give it another bash this week!
JoshWilding
JoshWilding - 5/10/2010, 12:08 PM
Normally agree with your reviews ROR but I hated Hulk! The whole thing was just a mess and one of my least favourite movies ever..! :P Dont get me wrong, it had some good parts but as a whole it was just a bad movie regardless of the fact it was a CBM!
SHHH
SHHH - 5/10/2010, 12:10 PM
This Hulk was not bad movie at all...
HelaGood
HelaGood - 5/10/2010, 12:20 PM
it was alright... but it was too deep and drama-filled... ang lee's forte.

i wanted to see HULK SMASH! and thats why i love the second one waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay better than this one.
ThunderCougarFalconBird
ThunderCougarFalconBird - 5/10/2010, 12:21 PM
I hated the movie when I saw it at the cinema. I did give it another go though and although I didn't "hate" it, I still didn't like it.

Bana did a fine job despite being the wrong man for the role. The problem was the story being a mess. I can handle liberties being taken, and the dogs didn't bother me. The main problem was the last 30mins or so falling into stupidity.
BassMan
BassMan - 5/10/2010, 12:23 PM
well put, it wasnt a great movie but it wasnt bad. i always thought it was pretty good. i dont know why people are so quick to judge these cbm's so harshly all the time. they should be pleased they are living in the time of cbm's!! none of this was possible when i was younger, they tried, and we got dolph lundgren.
MarkCassidy
MarkCassidy - 5/10/2010, 12:23 PM
haha, No worries Josh, I know i'm leaving myself open for some slagging for this one but I'm just being honest, I really enjoyed it! I think Anil's comparison to Returns is a good one, they weren't the movies the fans wanted or expected but underneath all of the anger that causes the films are well made and engaging in different ways.
MassExecutions1
MassExecutions1 - 5/10/2010, 12:23 PM
The terrible pacing and a Banner that was so repressed he had no personality killed that movie. Also, the absorbing man interpretation and hulk's size changing caused me real problems. Yeah he looks bigger or smaller sometimes in the comics, but its a different medium. I didn't hate the action, though, even with the dogs. I re-watch it sometimes, but skip lots of scenes. Letterier's TIH is great entertainment however and the way I think a Hulk movie should be (but with more of Hulk actually talking).
lc
lc - 5/10/2010, 12:27 PM
@ror aww man i need to tell i [frick]ing hate the hulk sooooo bad.but but i say well done coz i like you lol
DasBoot
DasBoot - 5/10/2010, 12:29 PM
Pretty well written buddy, but check your grammar because their, they're, and there have their own uses. The incorrect use of them makes for a confusing read. Still though, I see what you're getting at with Hulk, but the final showdown at the end of the movie was beyond terrible. Besides the dogs, I thought the movie was going OK, but the ending was probably the worst out of any Marvel controlled CBM.
Markurgh
Markurgh - 5/10/2010, 12:33 PM
One word: Poodles.
fanboiii
fanboiii - 5/10/2010, 12:34 PM
Hulk was bad in the same sense that Superman Returns was bad. I don't think it took the characters where they should have gone. I'm all for interesting character studies, but not when they got the character wrong. This is what Nolan and Favreau have done right.

It wasn't a matter of action vs. drama. I didn't like how Ang Lee depicted Hulk as child-like. Leterrier's Hulk was more of a manifestation of rage which I think is true to the character. Besides that, I hated the cheesy editing, the general look of Hulk, the poodles, and other more nit-picky things. I also prefer Norton as Banner even though The Incredible Hulk didn't really take advantage of his talent. I have some dislikes with The Incredible Hulk, but it's definitely a better starting point for Hulk.
Shaman
Shaman - 5/10/2010, 12:34 PM
Ror- Awesome review, my friend!!! These words are exactly how i feel about both films:

"Basically Ang Lee set out to make a thoughtful, deep drama and he succeeded.He is more interested in telling the story behind the Hulk's rage than showing the effects of it..the problem is that the character just doesn't lend itself to too much of that. What he does best is smash, and thats where the film falls flat. I always say a perfect Hulk movie would combine the strengths of both."

I couldn't agree with you more!!! And IMHO, the acting was way better in Ang Lee's film. But since Hulk is supposed to duel it out with other beasts, if i had to pick a favorite, it would definitely be TIH. I personally have a major problem with the very concept of this character and no matter what they do with him, it will fall flat in my eyes. I really hope he has a small part in Avengers. One that won't require much "Banner" as well so they can save on expenses. Norton would just milk it dry.
jazzman
jazzman - 5/10/2010, 12:35 PM
i really hated Ang Lee Hulk.
MassExecutions1
MassExecutions1 - 5/10/2010, 12:41 PM
Child-like and full of rage are not mutually exclusive. If you don't believe me have kids. The perfect hulk is both. Love me some 70's era dumb hulk. With the Defenders? AWESOME. He's relationship with the Avengers in the film should be similar.
JoshWilding
JoshWilding - 5/10/2010, 12:41 PM
ROR: Ah well, each to their own! :) Dont get me wrong though - although I dont agree with your review, it still makes for a great read and actually made me reconsider some of that things I hated about the movie, lol!

To be honest, I like the Hulk but he's never been a character that I've cared about all that much so the changes in the movie didnt bother me because to an extent some of it was pretty entertaining! I just didnt like it...hell, maybe I should go and check it out again because it's been 5 or 6 years since I last saw it and I can barely remember most of the damned thing now!
fanboiii
fanboiii - 5/10/2010, 12:47 PM
@MassExecutions1

I think it is to an extent. Anger itself isn't completly childish. Mature adults get angry, and it's this kind of anger, maybe spiteful anger, that's harder to control. That's how I understand the Hulk and it explains his hatred for Banner.

Child-like anger is more like ill reasoned tantrums.
topgooner187
topgooner187 - 5/10/2010, 12:56 PM
i enjoyed hulk and good review
LEEE777
LEEE777 - 5/10/2010, 12:58 PM
BANA's BRUCE is a billion times better than SLJ's NICK FURY!!!

Just thought I'd bring that up! ; D
MassExecutions1
MassExecutions1 - 5/10/2010, 1:00 PM
@Fanboiii - Ah, I like that. Distinguishing what kind of anger. I kind of thought of the Hulk's anger as child like anger because children get angry because they can't control and influence there world the way they want to and their told the behave. That's Banner: Ineffective and repressed. He's the Ego/Superego, Hulk is the Id. Of course, like I said I like 70's dumb hulk. Ultimate Hulk is more like the adult anger, I'd say.

Man! I love conversations like this. I knew I never should have started posting.
FrankGarret
FrankGarret - 5/10/2010, 1:21 PM
That's pretty much on the money as far as I'm concerned.
Sparrowsabre7
Sparrowsabre7 - 5/10/2010, 1:26 PM
I think that the problem was people wanted Hulk to smash stuff a lot more. I agree it's a decent film, but it does drag its heels a bit. But the Hulk V Army scenes were much better than the ones in TIH.
FoxForce5
FoxForce5 - 5/10/2010, 1:27 PM
The best thing in Lee's Hulk (IMO) is that it's still the best (most comic-accurate)Hulk origin we've seen on screen so far. I for one kind of hated the "TV" origin that we got in TIH though I did like the movie more.
FoxForce5
FoxForce5 - 5/10/2010, 1:31 PM
@ bropous: yes, I think that would make it, at lest a little, better. The 'comic framing and transitions' are a very distracting editorial problem. Though, they're not as bad as the 'hulk-dogs' or screwed up Absorbing Man crap. Do without all that and we'd actually have had a film I'd have liked a lot.
Swanky
Swanky - 5/10/2010, 1:42 PM
Its was better then Ghostrider :) Nice article Ror
Upupandaway
Upupandaway - 5/10/2010, 1:46 PM
I think Ang Lee's Hulk was a well intentioned mess. In all honesty, the Hulk as a character is a well that's not that deep. Letterier didn't try to make a good film. As films go, TIH wouldn't be that great if it were just a creature feature without the Hulk attached. Letterier acknowledges the Hulk formula and delivers it. I think he's actually better suited for video games than film. Lee risked a lot more and, ultimately, didn't quite win out. As always, good read Ror.
DeathWalker
DeathWalker - 5/10/2010, 1:47 PM
Noooooooooo this movie was so bad. My son almost wanted us to walk out of the movie. It was soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooboring. Come on ROR!!!!!!
MassExecutions1
MassExecutions1 - 5/10/2010, 1:54 PM
GAH! Anything is better than Ghost Rider! (with the exception of a 3r blade movie, which in my mind never happened).
Wadey09
Wadey09 - 5/10/2010, 1:59 PM
the highlight of the film for me was Sam Elliot as Thunderbolt Ross.
i think he was load better than William Hurt. this guy KNOWS how to yell. and this film had story yes. it had great performances, yes.
but it was some of the cheapy looking effects and the way it was stylized that made me not care for it.
as a film it's great.
as a Hulk film, i love the fact that we get a better look at Bruce/Hulk's psyche which was something that was lacking in TIH.
but i believe that Ang Lee spent too much time developing the characters that we didn't really get enough time to see them do what they do best.
especially Hulk.
and the bouncing Hulk boobs were about as bad as the bat-nipples for me!
;p
Scarface
Scarface - 5/10/2010, 2:02 PM
It was long and drawn out but its not that bad.
Its just one of those movies you really need to be in the mood to watch.
To me TIH is better but to each there own.

@Ror great review.
I,m enjoying your revisits keep em comin
SHAZAM171
SHAZAM171 - 5/10/2010, 2:09 PM
Some more cool pictures, I know .. I'm a picture whore... LOL

DMB1511
DMB1511 - 5/10/2010, 2:10 PM
This Hulk Movie Really Stunk!
topgooner187
topgooner187 - 5/10/2010, 2:16 PM
magic8@ wtf dude
BryEL
BryEL - 5/10/2010, 2:17 PM
I am so glad that you guys at least thought it was decent. It is 'kinda' boring, but its still the Hulk, love it or hate it.

I thought Bana was spot on IF you want to compare Lee's Hulk to the tv series. Lee's Hulk, to me, just felt like a cool reboot of the tv show.
BryEL
BryEL - 5/10/2010, 2:20 PM
I think Ang Lee sorta didn't know what he was doing with Hulk Just cause it's a CBM, doesn't mean that he had to make comic-like scene changes with all the green.

Kill me, I don't care, Warzone was way more enjoyable.
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