Are The Members of the Justice League Relatable to Audiences?

Are The Members of the Justice League Relatable to Audiences?

In a recent article posted on CBM.com, Joss Whedon was quoted as saying that DC's heroes were from a "bygone era" and that "Marvel's characters are just like us". I think Joss Whedon is dead wrong. Click the jump to read my editorial on the matter.

Editorial Opinion
By Kryptonman87 - Apr 15, 2012 03:04 PM EST
Filed Under: Justice League

In recent days, we've been getting clips, reviews, and interviews for the soon to be released "The Avengers" movie, but there was one interview here on CBM.com that really stood out to me. Joss Whedon was recently interviewed where he was asked what he thought about Warner Brothers doing a Justice League movie. His response was, "It’s enormously difficult to take very disparate characters and make them work. And DC has a harder time with it than Marvel because their characters are from a bygone era. Their characters were bigger than we were...Marvel really cracked the code in terms of ‘Oh, they’re just like us.’ A dose of that sort of veracity that Marvel really started with Iron Man, I think you need to use that as a base."



If you ask me, Joss Whedon suffers from the same thing that we abuse other fans of having: He has a Marvel bias. Now, some of you may be reading this and thinking that I have a DC bias. That's not entirely true. While I do admit to having a heavy Superman bias, I really do not think it's fair of Joss Whedon and other Marvel fans to paint DC characters as unrelatable to audiences, while saying that the Avengers ARE relatable. With the Avengers, you have a god on the team, who no one can relate to, other than the sibling rivalry. You've got a WWII veteran who was frozen in ice and thawed out 70 years later. They've got a gamma irradiated scientist who can transform into an unstobble green monster with limitless strength. And they've got a billionaire genius in impossibly achievable tech suit. Nothing about these guys, PHYSICALLY, is relatable.

But, we all know that what Joss Whedon means is that they possess characteristics and personalities that are relatable. Such as Thor being a favorite child who constantly is locked in sibling rivalry. Captain America is feels like an outsider and that he doesn't belong. Hulk is constantly at war with himself and trying to keep himself under control. And Iron Man has problems with sobriety and is an egotistical narcisist. Yes, these are qualities that are very relatable to a lot of people all around the world. But it is EXTREMELY unfair to say that the members of the Justice League don't also have relatable personalities and characteristics.

Batman is an orphaned child with survivor's guilt and wants to put an end to the thing that ended his childhood. Superman is an adopted child who knew nothing about where he came from or who his biological parents were, but still tried to be the very best he could be with the means at his disposal. Green Lantern is a guy who faced his worst fear as a kid and dealt with the horrific death of his father, so he now faces things head on and doesn't let fear run his life. The Flash is a guy who feels detached from the world because he moves so much faster than it. He feels isolated and frustrated. Wonder Woman is an outsider who believes that she knows the better way to act and live, but is faced with a world that doesn't understand her ways. Aquaman is a half human Atlantean who is told that he's supposed to be a great leader and do all these things, but he wants to live his own life on his own schedule. He also constantly deals with people under estimating him and mocking him.

The point that I am trying to make here is this: When most people think about the Justice League, they see these gods on Mount Olympus, simply because they were the first superheroes in comics and because of their powers. And yes, back in the 40's and 50's, these were heroes that could never do any wrong and were extremely powerful. But they haven't been like that for decades. Just because Superman is a Kryptonian who can crack the earth in half and melt glass with his eyes doesn't mean that he doesn't have worries, concerns, insecurities, and short comings. Just because The Flash can run at the speed of light doesn't mean that life is perfect for him. If anything, moving that fast makes life harder for him. Wonder Woman may be an excellent warrior and a very strong woman, but she's faced with a world that constantly gets in its own way and refuses to change. Green Lantern is a simple guy forced to face galactic cataclysms and alien despots. The Justice League members have VERY relatable personalities and to say that they're any less relatable than Thor, Captain America, Iron Man, or Hulk is just ignorant and unfair.

Please post your comments and opinions in the usual place. This is actually a topic that I really want to debate and discuss, so please say anything that's on your minds.
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MrDuck
MrDuck - 4/15/2012, 4:04 PM
I think it's all about limiting power levels and I know people will complain with that but it's true, what's the point of the Justice League if there's a guy who can take a bullet to the eye?
MrDuck
MrDuck - 4/15/2012, 4:05 PM
And the writing has to be good and witty and they have to trust that the audience is intelligent
incrediblesuperbatspider
incrediblesuperbatspider - 4/15/2012, 4:10 PM
I agree, none of this would even be an issue however, if green lantern was.done right. Batman and superman are the two most popular characters for a reason and they have successful film. You can make powerful characters relatable and interesting, just look at Dr. Manhattan from watchmen
MrDuck
MrDuck - 4/15/2012, 4:13 PM
But you're right nothing physically is relatable to The Avengers whereas a man with super strength, flight and heat vision is physically relatable as well as a man who can breathe underwater a green martian who can shapeshift, a guy who can run at the speed of sound and another guy with a green power ring that can make pretty much anything he can imagine....... Sow?
Kryptonman87
Kryptonman87 - 4/15/2012, 4:15 PM
I agree. The fact is, the powers of any superhero and what they can do is nevery relatable to anybody, even what Batman can do isn't relatable. But what they feel, how they act, what they say, and their personalities are VERY relatable. People need to realize that, and I just feel like that there are a lot of people out there who have branded the members of the JLA as these unrelatable gods who are nothing more than the powers they have.
MrDuck
MrDuck - 4/15/2012, 4:27 PM
I love JLA, reading it is so much fun but the main issue they need to tackle is Superman -what can't he do- these are really the only moments reading JLA that piss me off saying "Oh my god really? He's beating up the King of the Angels all by himself?" or "Oh come on, just because he has arctic breathe does not mean he can blow out a star!" But other than that it could be a really great oppurtunity to expand pretty much the origin of Martian Manhunter at his arrival on Earth and show people Aquaman to be a force of Nature to be reckoned with, cause I feel like people dismiss him as a guy who can breath underwater and talks to fish.
Kryptonman87
Kryptonman87 - 4/15/2012, 4:57 PM
@Just1Superguy THANK YOU!!! I couldn't agree with you more. The Avengers have the same problems as far as power levels go that DC has. Both Thor and Hulk have been known to be just as powerful as Superman. The Superman argument always pisses me off, because there are so many Marvel heroes that are just as powerful. I mean, look at Hulk: Everyone says that he'd beat Supes in a fight because the madder he gets, the stronger he gets, which means his strength is infinite.
MrDuck
MrDuck - 4/15/2012, 5:31 PM
Thor can't take a bullet to the eye and neither can Hulk, They could probably regenerate the eye with time but could not smash it. I like Superman but it seems like if they want to make a good version of him they have to make him have the emotional difficulties he used to have in the comics, not just his loneliness in the universe. He needs to have the thing where he's not rich so his rent is late and he has woman troubles with Lois and what not, sort of like Spider-Man which could make him a much more relatable character to general audiences. But the whole lonely alien shtick just doesn't work well it ends up with him looking whiny and angry at the universe where he should be just a regular guy who happens to have these amazing powers
Knightrider
Knightrider - 4/15/2012, 5:47 PM
I agree with your points, however in the interview didn't he also say that "They have addressed that now" perhaps referring to changes made in the DC style reboot.
Yes the argument that power being the relatable issue is silly otherwise surely there should never be the argument of who wins a fight Marvel vs DC as if DC is just ott super powers then, why are there these countless forums debating who'd win.
I have felt though that (And I too am a massive Superman fan) that they should never have introduced any other people from Krypton apart from Zod, as this takes away from him being the last of a forgotten race.
As Mr. Duck mentions I do believe he needs to struggle especially as Clark Kent, as it shows not all the Worlds problems can be solved with superpowers, and the World is different from 50yrs ago jobs are tougher to get and maintain, I think the unrelatable discussion also stems from the fact that the World changed and for a while DC didn't, but I believe they are going in the right direction.
MrDuck
MrDuck - 4/15/2012, 5:48 PM
No offense but isn't it kinda weird you're campaigning that the JLA aren't like gods when you have a poster at the top of your post that says "When Gods walk among Men"
MrDuck
MrDuck - 4/15/2012, 5:50 PM
But yeah that's all I'm saying... Also my comment above is just an observation
Kryptonman87
Kryptonman87 - 4/15/2012, 5:56 PM
Okay, in all fairness, Superman 1-4 were made back in the 70's and 80's and were relatively campy. Superman Returns exagerated his strength in certain parts, namely the lifting the continent composed of Kryptonite. The Superman strength levels that I like are like what we saw in "Smallville": He is extremely strong to the point where lifting a plane or a tractor are pretty easy, but he can't benchpress a continent.

And I don't really want to see a Superman that's like an emo-relationship guy like Spider-man or like Clark was in the first few years of "Smallville". I want a guy who even though he was raised by humans, he feels like an outsider and alienated because he has these powers, but is more human than the rest of us because he tries so damn hard to be a normal guy. I also like the idea of him struggling with his origins and Jor-El having this pre-concieved notion for his son to be Earth's greatest hero to make up for Jor-El's failure to save Krypton. There are A LOT of psychological issues that would plague a guy with that much on his plate. At the end of the day, while he is an alien, he came to earth as a baby and was raised his entire life AS A HUMAN, so it only makes sense for him to act human and have very human problems
Kryptonman87
Kryptonman87 - 4/15/2012, 6:03 PM
But just to address the main issue: It's not JUST Superman that people say this about. It's Flash and GL too. They say being able to run at the speed of light and having a ring that can create anything you can think of makes them too powerful and unrelatable. That's BS. It's gotta be so frustrating for Flash to be moving at what he can see as a regular speed while everyone else around him is practically frozen. And GL's constructs are only as strong as his will power and focus are.

Same goes for Wonder Woman and Aquaman. They all feel very human emotions and have very relatable feelings and attitudes, but all these hardcore Marvel fans refuse to see it because ever since the 60's, Marvel has put a sign on their chest saying, "OUR CHARACTERS HAVE FLAWS!!"
MrDuck
MrDuck - 4/15/2012, 6:19 PM
It's ture that DC heroes are the heroes you aspire to and of course they have flaws but they are not major plot points, some of the best comics in Marvel History is when Spider-Man needs to resolve some emotional conflict or has a date and must instead fight the Vulture or Green Goblin and he misses it. Supes pretty much always resolves his conflicts but the reason I find Batman so entertaining is it's almost a Sherlock Holmes type adventure he's speaking about things that are tangible and yet so complicated but you can understand the just of what he's saying
MrDuck
MrDuck - 4/15/2012, 6:31 PM
It's taken out of context that Thor can fly through the heart of the sun he can only do this in possession of the Odin Force, He can take blasts and hits from beings far more powerful than him but it does harm him. And he has fought the Destroyer before Honestly I'm not saying Thor's not powerful, I'm saying he is relatable through emotional difficulties and trials. He's in love with a human but he live in a nother Galaxy and honestly, I've spoken my peace, what r u trying to prove now?
AVEN
AVEN - 4/15/2012, 6:54 PM
Just make a movie like "Justice League animated television series" (without Aquaman) :/
Ghostt
Ghostt - 4/15/2012, 7:28 PM
@Kryptoman87

I think you are very justified to dispute Whedon's statements and you bring valid points to the table.

I believe that Whedon was simply making an off the cuff remark in the excitement of the release of the Avengers. He often speaks before thinking and contradicts himself. The point is, he probably doesn't have a strong conviction that Marvel characters are more relatable, rather, he has a strong conviction to sell and hype up his movie.

...and of course he is biased towards Marvel at the moment and no one can blame him for that.
SageMode
SageMode - 4/15/2012, 7:55 PM
MRDUCK

SUPERHERO FEATS: THOR
EdgyOutsider
EdgyOutsider - 4/15/2012, 8:17 PM
I personally think that Marvel's character's aren't more relatable but that they have more characters that people can relate to rather than DC. Marvel has enough characters that the general public are aware of and that people can relate to those characters. DC's main hero's are Batman, Superman, Aquaman, Wonder Woman, The Flash and Green Lantern. To be honest those are the only relatable characters I know from DC because their the only heros I know from DC. Every comicbook company has characters people can relate to, Marvel just happens to have the most characters that people can relate to is all. Great write up.
Kryptonman87
Kryptonman87 - 4/15/2012, 8:37 PM
@GhostRiderfan1 I will admit, our generation is primarily a Marvel generation. The fact is, back in the 60's Marvel hit it big with Spider-Man because they gave him serious crap to deal with like drug use and what not. Then came the deal with X-Men and mirroring it to the Civil Rights Movement. So Marvel was the first company to take their characters and put them in very dark, realistic situations. Then DC took that step a bit with Green Arrow by having Speedy being addicted to heroine, but they really took off by letting Frank Miller write Batman.

The point is, kids of the 60's got more interested in Marvel because Marvel Comics were darker and realistic back then. Then, the children of the 60's had their own kids and thus introduced them to Marvel characters, not generally DC characters. So, I have no problem admitting that we live in a generally Marvel-centric generation, but I just can't stand the ignorance of people that talk about DC characters like Superman, Batman, GL, Flash, and Wonder Woman like they're these marble, statuesque gods that do no wrong and are emotionless flags that just stand for heroism. THEY ARE REALISTIC! THEY HAVE PERSONALITIES! I mean, hell, even before the relaunch, Batman books and Green Lantern books were outselling all Marvel books, so obviously DC has some damn good writing
Psyche
Psyche - 4/15/2012, 9:13 PM
I think that originally DC characters where meant to be looked up to and that has alwasy been their strong suit. No matter what trials the characters would overcome and prevail. Whereas Marvel only has one character meant to be idolized which is Cap. Marvel had their characters got threw a lot of human problems love, death, alcoholism, and racism. While I do agree DC characters have personalities they don't have layered enough stories to make them feel like we can relate. Superman can feel lonely and exiled but the fact still remains that he overcomes and seems to shrug it off. Batman on the other hand is driven by determination and obsession true human qualities though they seem hardly touched. Whereas Spider-Man barely overcomes he makes sacrifices and barely retrieves anything in return. The Justice League has faults but they make up for these faults being God like. The marvel characters however are not God like in anyway and have many painful sufferings and relate to us in many ways.
Kryptonman87
Kryptonman87 - 4/15/2012, 11:18 PM
@Psyche Not god like? Thor IS a god. Cap is basically walking perfection (physically and morally). Iron Man may be an alcoholic, but that hasn't been a problem for him for years, so that's basically a mute point, and he uses his billions to fund that Avengers and always uses his suit and tech to stop global terrorism instead of for personal gain. The Hulk, even though he is regarded as a rampaging monster all the time, NEVER kills. The fact of the matter is, whether it's a Marvel or a DC character, they always eventually give up selfish acts to better benefit humanity because that's what heroes do. But they all have moral dilemas and flaws, including Batman and Superman.

I mean, over the past 2 years before the relaunch, Brainiac murdered Superman's earth father, Jonathon Kent, and Superman nearly beat him to death within a prison facility. Then had to leave his wife for a year so that he could be hated by his own kind while trying to keep an eye on Zod. Then he had the entire earth hate his Kryptonian race BECAUSE of Zod. Superman does deal with serious issues and dilemas that aren't easily solved.
Kalel219
Kalel219 - 4/15/2012, 11:44 PM
I disagree with you about Joss being bias to Marvel, since he tried to make a Justice League movie first. Also, I think his comment means Marvel's heros at the end of the day are just like me or you and more often then not got their powers but accident, when DC has characters like Superman who was born with amazing powers.

So I relate to marvel more because to me, their characters are more human then DC.
MrDuck
MrDuck - 4/16/2012, 5:21 AM
Correct^
Lilvic92
Lilvic92 - 4/16/2012, 6:20 AM
Very great write up, alot of good points. My only complaint is the fact that you said Joss Whedon has a Marvel bias, you had me lost there. Maybe when he reads Marvel comics he finds the characters a bit more relatable, he never said Marvel is better than DC. Remember he wanted to make a Batman and Wonder Woman movie years before The Avengers was even being considered. Other than Batman I don't read much of DC comics, but I know that none of the characters are "perfect", as some would lead you to believe.
Psyche
Psyche - 4/16/2012, 9:21 AM
@Kryptonman87 so should we not consider Superman a God? I mean he does these miraculous things on no sweat no worries he barely has anyone to match him as an opponent. Even God's like Zeus had worries although it never showed. Hulk has God like strength but look at him he lives in exile only want wanting to be alone and he can't even see the women he loves because her father is the one oppressing him. Or wolverine who is a lost soul looking for a place in the world. Those have always been the story with them. Superman has recently start developing these problems recently being the 80s but barely in depth. DC characters have problems but marvel characters form a special bond with you. The most relatable characters from DC are the batfamily..
MoonDoggyX
MoonDoggyX - 4/16/2012, 11:09 AM
I like Marvel and DC equally, though I have to admit that I like Batman and Superman more than any Marvel hero(or heroine). With that said, the more I think about it, Joss Wheadon is right. But it has nothing to do with their power levels. Bats is supposed to be thge strongest, Supes is supposed to be the most powerful...

One thing that I noticed in all of the MCU films, none of the "Heroes" are really crime fighters. Quite the opposite with DC where EVERYONE is a crime fighter...
TheCapelessCrusader
TheCapelessCrusader - 4/16/2012, 11:32 AM
Excellent write-up, KryptonMan.

This is, perhaps, the reason why Chris Nolan was chosen to "godfather" the next generation of DC films. Previous iterations of Superman have had him be as squeaky-clean as can possibly be, with not a single moment of moral uncertainty.

My sincere hope is that the Snyder/Nolan Superman will showcase the very real moralistic questions that come of being the most powerful being on the planet, much in the way that the great 80s tale "Does the World Need Superman?" did in the comics.
CorndogBurglar
CorndogBurglar - 4/16/2012, 12:48 PM
I don't necessarily think being relatable is the issue.

Most of the people I know that don't read comics think of most DC characters as hokey and outdated. I don't really agree with it because there are certainly a lot of DC characters that I love.

But when it comes to friends that don't read comics, and people at work, they tend to think that characters like Aquaman, Flash, and many others are just too cheesy. Hell, look at all the poeple on this site that think that. I can't tell you how many times I've seen ignorant poeple post a comment like this: "The Flash? Who cares about a guy that can run fast." Now, anyone that knows anything about the Flash knows there is a lot more to him than that.

My point is, the general audience views DC characters as cheesy and hokey, with the exception of Batman.

Need evidence? Look at the new Superman movie. It isn't darker in tone and edgier for no reason. They are trying to take the corniness out in hopes of drawing the general audience. Just look at it like this, if they need to do that with Superman, the most well known superhero in the world, then they would definately need to do it with other DC characters. And even then it might not be enough because people already have ideas in their head.
CorndogBurglar
CorndogBurglar - 4/16/2012, 12:50 PM
Again, I don't necessarily agree that people should think that way, but the sad truth is that people do in fact have those ideas in their head already. Which is a shame, because DC has a LOT of good characters.
BIGBMH
BIGBMH - 4/16/2012, 2:27 PM
The Justice League was presented quite well in the DC animated universe. I don't get why people think it's so difficult to figure out how to do it well.

In regards to the whole relatable thing, I think it's all in how they're presented. Superman is really powerful, but he's not Dr. Manhattan. The way he thinks and feels is just as normal as any other hero. You could potentially argue he's more relatable than Batman in terms of personality.
golden123
golden123 - 4/16/2012, 3:28 PM
Great editorial as always @Kryptonman87. Thumbs up from me!
Psyche
Psyche - 4/16/2012, 4:10 PM
@Just1superguy I know things about Superman regarding his rouge from zod,lobo,mongul, doomsday and darkseid, but those are just a few. Those are not your average villains like rhino or scarecrow who can be beaten easily my point is that Superman can do a lot of things we wouldn't consider natural for even superheros
Kalel219
Kalel219 - 4/16/2012, 6:51 PM
@Just1Superguy

Superman still comes from an advanced race, even without his powers, to us they look like gods.

Also depending on what take on the character you're talking about, there have been stories of him having super strength as a child.
Psyche
Psyche - 4/16/2012, 7:06 PM
@Just1superguy but he does get involved in street level matters, Batman is a street level but he he gets involved in higher matters
gmoney0505
gmoney0505 - 4/16/2012, 8:19 PM
People uses an excuse for DC characters being unrealtable for not liking them baffles the hell out of me. I always thought a well written story with a villain that challenges the hero and make them struggle should make you like that character.

If almost everyone can like the Justice League cartoon, why would they have a problem liking a Justice League movie?

It all just comes down to a well written story and a villain or villains that can make the team struggle.
Kryptonman87
Kryptonman87 - 4/16/2012, 9:54 PM
At the end of the day, that IS the point of the Justice League... They deal with the high-level threats and they are Earth's last defense. While the Avengers hold a truck load of power, I've felt that they've always been best represented as a government sanctioned task force, whereas the Justice League was founded by a group of solo heroes who came together of their own accord to combat threats that not even Superman could take on solo, hence writing GOOD Justice League stories in the comics is quite hard.

I guess at the end of the day, I can see that people (even comic fans) would see the Justice League being more powerful than the Avengers, so coming up with a credible threat for them to have to come together to fight is pretty difficult. Short of Darkseid and his Apocalyptian minions invading, Doomsday attacking, white martians invading, or evil alternate earth versions of themselves attacking, finding a compelling story for the JLA is pretty difficult. With the Avengers, most of the times they get together is because they are a first line of defense for major threats, but also because they're more of a government sanctioned task force.

I just think that the fact that the Justice League is SO powerful, that's what makes it interesting to read, especially in the new Geoff Johns/Jim Lee take in the New 52: You've got 6 solo characters that are amazing by themselves, and those power levels and those egos create A LOT of clashing in between them. To say that the members of the JLA are unrealistic and unrelatable is ignorant and flat out wrong.

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