Why Legendary and Disney Should Create a Shared Dune/Star Wars Universe

Why Legendary and Disney Should Create a Shared Dune/Star Wars Universe

With the opportunity to reboot the epic science fiction adventure Dune on screen, there is a sure fire way to virtually guarantee its success...Combine it with Star Wars

Editorial Opinion
By Forthas - Dec 08, 2016 12:12 PM EST
Filed Under: Star Wars


 
Recently, Legendary Pictures acquired the rights to the epic science fiction fantasy by Frank Herbert - Dune.  Given the scope of the saga, the opportunities for Legendary are quite simply almost limitless.  If Legendary would like to make more money than it knows what to do with, it may want to consider a long-term strategy that will virtually guarantee that the franchise will endure and be successful.  The way to do this is to form a partnership with Disney Studio’s and make a crossover film universe.  Here are the reasons why this would work. 

1)       FOLLOW WHAT HAS BEEN SUCCESSFUL - The main problem (among many) with the first Dune film is that it tried to tell a story that is broad in scope and deals with deep universal themes of power and the relationship of people with their environment.  The Star Wars universe does the same, but not in the dense story telling way that the original Dune movie had done, but rather in a way that combines humor, adventure and generic themes of heroes and villains that people relate to.  Dune could do the same especially if explicitly set in the same universe as Star Wars. The already similar worlds blend both science fiction (space flight, laser blasters, and other high tech gadgetry) with mysticism (the force and prescient abilities) as well as alien life forms (Arrakis Worms and Wookies) that reside on various unique planets.  In fact, many aspects of the Star Wars world seem to have counterparts in the Dune universe for every Star Wars “clone”, there is a Dune “Ghola” and for every Star Wars Jedi training in the “ways of the Force” there is training in the Bene Gesserit “Weirding Way”.  It would not be difficult to adapt Dune movies that followed the Star Wars mold.
 
2)       WHY CREATE A RIVALRY OF ZERO SUM GAIN – Other than the fact that the two universes are set in different times- Star Wars (“A Long Time Ago”) and Dune (set over 10,000 years in Earth’s future), there is almost no part of the world visions that contradict each other.  Jedi and Bene Gesserit exhibit identical abilities (Jedi “Mind Trick” and the Voice respectively) as well as train as master combatants with hand held weapons.  They even pursue “paths” laid out before them based on mystical belief in which to respond to their world (Will of the Force vs Golden Path).  Given the similarity, the development of a brand rivalry is almost a certainty if they chose to not be set in the same universe.  As the Marvel and DC film wars have proven, creating competing world cinematic universes of a similar genre will almost certainly polarize audiences into Pro-Star Wars and Pro-Dune factions.  Ideally people could love both, but the superhero genre indicates that many people (not all) seem to create inflexible allegiances to one brand.  A shared universe between the two franchises would ensure that it does not happen.  In that situation, while some people may prefer Jedi’s to Fremen, because they do reside in the same universe, it would not lead to one group of fans actively rooting for the other franchise to fail.
 
3)       CREATIVELY IT OPENS UP POSSIBILITIES – Thus far Dune has been an epic adventure that centers around messianic figures (a chosen one) not unlike Star Wars. The same issues that would create rivalry in a separate universe, could very well expand the options for storytelling.  What would happen if a Fremen trained in the Weirding Way fought a Sith Lord?  If a Jedi trained in the Bene Gesserit’s Weirding Way and developed prescient abilities by consuming mélange, how powerful would they be when combined with the power of the Force and Jedi training?  When in contact with the inhabitants of the Star Wars Universe, how would Dune inhabitants respond to the artificial life forms (droids) that populate the Star Wars universe given the past confrontational aspect of humans and robots in the Dune universe?
 

       
Taken together, the union of these two worlds is logical and inherently complimentary.  So why should Legendary agree to such an undertaking?  The answer is simple.  Legendary runs the risk of being the “DC” in a rivalry.  With Star Wars firmly established as a beloved saga, Dune would come across as a cheap imitation trying to capitalize on the success of Star Wars – this despite the fact that Dune predates Star Wars.  In addition, by announcing that the Dune universe would be joining together with the Star Wars Universe, the millions of fans (read customers) that dress up as slave girls and Storm Troopers would become instant fans and would automatically develop a curiosity to determine what Dune would bring to their beloved galactic universe. As a result, it would peak the interests of these fans and virtually guarantee an audience for Dune centered films.  So why should Disney Agree to this?  The simple answer is the alternative is product saturation.  While Disney would likely ‘win” the rivalry, it risks the success of future films by enabling the rivalry.  For example, is it better to have Disney have to consider shuffling its Star Wars movie calendar around to avoid its Star Wars films competing with Dune.  The more that the makers of Dune who are not Disney puts movies out that look and feel Star War-sy…the more and faster people will tire of the genre.  Also, it is better that Disney make money off BOTH Star Wars and Dune (even if shared) than only make it off Star Wars.

So how would this work creatively…

In summary, Dune would be re-set in the past to coincide with Star Wars in a nondescript galaxy.  Legendary and Disney should do a “Game of Thrones” type limited cable mini-series that reboots the Dune story to brings people up to speed.  Upon the conclusion of the series a new series of Dune stories focused on a descendant of the House of Atreidies should begin as a summer-time blockbuster with Star Wars films occupying their current Christmas time schedule.  One overarching theme could be that in order to defeat an evil greater than anything ever seen before, it will take the combined efforts of the (a) powerful Jedi, and male Bene Gesserit to defeat the evil.  One story may culminate in the development of a planet destroying machine that is now impervious to military destruction that targets Arrakis.  The only hope is for a powerful Jedi to consume mélange, develop prescient abilities and use the force to fold space around the planet which would redirect the assault from the weapon back to its source which would effectively destroy it and make such machines useless…just one idea. But hopefully you get the point!           

The benefits to Legendary, Disney and science fiction fans would be tremendous. It would also make it more likely that the Dune saga would take hold in the popular culture and expand both worlds with exciting new stories.  It would be an epic crossover, the likes of which the world has never seen and probably would never see again.  

 

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PrinceAwesome
PrinceAwesome - 12/8/2016, 5:54 PM
Highly against this.

Two polar seperate characters with polar stories and polar arcs that dont follow one another. Yes, they share similarities but regardless, the stories are too different and mixing them up will only result in a mess and a constraint in creativity.

I mean, I cant imagine or even see the Force existing within the confines of House Atriedes. If it were to exist in that universe, then you eradicate the essence and the purpose of Paul's divinity and the omnipresence of the spice settled within the Dune planet. It just wouldnt make sense and it just wouldnt work.

I can see the Dune series competing with the likes of Star Wars by giving it a much more intrinsic, psychedelic, and philosophical story that is ridden with Jesus or Moses allegories and whatnot, but I cant see it ever being in the same universe as the franchise.
Forthas
Forthas - 12/8/2016, 10:29 PM
@PrinceAwesome - A few things...I am not suggesting the first three Dune movies acknowledge the Star Wars Universe, only that future ones eventually leads to that acknowledgment and then integration.  Second neither Paul Atreides or his heirs were divine.  When Paul realized he was in fact a Tyrant, he left his thrown.  His son Leto II realized that for humanity to continue he needed to die.  To me it ties in well with the themes of the force because the Sith seek to become ever more powerful and are ruled by the same passions as the Atreides. To me the prescience abilities coupled with Bene Gesserit training is the opposite side of the same coin as the Force.  In the same way there are many ways to learn martial arts (which essentially seek the same goals) there should be many ways to manifest mystical forces.  I don't see it being a mess at all. Not much different than putting together the Avengers or X-Men which was not a mess.  Plus they would reference the other universe periodically but still have there own arc.  The Dune movies should in no way be psychedelic. That is going to turn off a lot of people.

PrinceAwesome
PrinceAwesome - 12/8/2016, 11:05 PM
@Forthas - there are plentiful of psychedelic moments both paul and his sister goes through when they take some of the spice. It shouldn't be a preliminary factor, but it is still a factor intertwined within the movie since the series seems to revolve around the value of that spice. Also, divinity and omnipotence is a huge factor in Paul's character arcs. He regards himself as a god amongst insects when he is chosen by the Fremen tribe as their savior, and his ascendancy to power revolts the Imperium into his submission. Besides the point, you will only constrain both franchises and you wont be able to expand them upon what they truly are. It works with Avengers and X-Men because the original canon has Avengers and the X-Men in the same universe. It couldnt work with Star Wars and Dune simply because they are two different adaptations and two different universes and they should stay as is. Companies have tried merging their products together, but you only get the worse of the worst products out there (i.e. Amalgam, Power Rangers Shellshocked, etc). You are also forgetting that the Dune universe has a vastly different historical encyclopedia than that of Star Wars. It has segments of particular histories that have occured within the Imperium. Involving Coruscant, the Outer Rims, etc would just mess with the originality Dune is.

I can only see this working if its some sort of paradoxical time stream / interdimensional crossing of the two universes a la Infinite Earths where a different kind of parallel universe exists; Dune being the universe where the Force has not existed/tapped into. Or you can have the Dune Universe be the universe where the 'balance of the force' has finally been achieved,and the pendelum swings neither towards the Dark or the Light Side after some sort of ancient Jedi/Sith battle that has almost jettisoned the universe into genocide, and Paul reactivates such Force through the Benne Segerrit, thus he succumbs to the Dark Side and becomes this Luke Skywalker II had he been seduced by the bad ways of the Force. Then you can have this one-time showdown between the two.
Forthas
Forthas - 12/9/2016, 8:59 AM
@PrinceAwesome - There are likewise psychedelic moments when Luke trains with Yoda and ends up "killing" his Darth Vader doppelganger, Annakin as he envisions Padme dying; and more recently Rey once she touches Luke's Light saber. So, visions induced by "the force" seem to have similarly psychedelic moments for the Jedi. I have to disagree about constraining the universes for the simple reason that over the course of the Star Wars movies the use of the force has been in defense of a concept of peace and justice against a villain. But let's play a game of pretend …one actually that you very cleverly started. What if there was ONLY one Jedi in the galaxy. What should that person do with that power. That is what is not really explored in Star Wars - what it means to be "force sensitive." when there is no opposing force that can oppose that person. You seem to very astutely recognize that when you stated

” Or you can have the Dune Universe be the universe where the 'balance of the force' has finally been achieved,and the pendelum swings neither towards the Dark or the Light Side”

Dune in its own way is that story...exchange the force with Bene Gesserit training and prescient ability...The struggle is then one that is inward. It asks should I (someone with that power) be a god, or ultimately because of the duality of humans (being both capable of good an evil) should they reject that (as Paul Atreides had done) or sacrifice themselves (as Leto II did) because they come to realize that what they stand for (the Golden Path - the continued existence of humanity) is greater than themselves. This is something Star Wars fails at in a way. As soon as Luke becomes the last trained Jedi, the story has to manufacture NEW villains in order to continue. This whole contrived story about how Luke trained new Jedi (never saying why they are needed) and of course one of them becomes Darth Vader 2.0. In that context, Star Wars is already a constrained story because it is now starting to just repeat itself.

So basically, a joined Dune Star Wars universe offers a potentially new – non-contrived villain that requires a Jedi to defeat and new global threats that they face – perhaps a new imperium as opposed to recycling the empire. Likewise, for Dune issues such as the integration of droids and other life forms in the Star Wars galaxy could be influenced by remnants of the Butlerian Jihad where a thinking machine infects the droids in the Star Wars universe now creating a third threat like a second Butlerian Jihad and adding to the story arch of Star Wars characters such as BB-8 or R2D2 where they have to choose between their “race” and there “friends”
PrinceAwesome
PrinceAwesome - 12/9/2016, 9:57 AM
@Forthas - This story would actually be interesting in that context, but I just dont see this actually happening as reality goes. Disney being Disney can just manufacture a new villain that is akin to what you have described, and they have nothing to lose in doing so. By striking a deal with Legendary, they would have to be tied up in a leash and they would be more constrained creatively (by 'they', being Disney, and we know how much Disney loves to control everything).

This is quite an ambitious idea, but the likelihood of this happening is zero to none.
Forthas
Forthas - 12/9/2016, 10:14 AM
@PrinceAwesome -

"Disney can just manufacture a new villain that is akin to what you have described, and they have nothing to lose in doing so."

That is a very good point!

I would say that there is something to lose in that, as when George Lucas introduced "midichlorines"...it was not well received. Dune would offer them the space to try out new ideas that could be added to Star Wars if and when it has taken hold in the popular culture.

"This is quite an ambitious idea, but the likelihood of this happening is zero to none."

Agreed that it would be ambitious! But you don't achieve greatness by saying you can't do something. I think if Disney/Legendary pulled it off it would have "world building" ramifications in toys and other media that could perhaps not ever be duplicated by any other studio making it an unbridled monopoly.
TomSolo
TomSolo - 12/9/2016, 3:43 AM
Regardless of wether or not this makes sense "in universe", I see no way this benefits the Star Wars franchise. And, really, the Dune franchise as far as lore goes.

And fiscally speaking, this would be a ridiculous and unnecessary risk for Disney.

It's a nice thought, but I can't see anyway this would be beneficial in any way except for the marketing of the Dune franchise.
Forthas
Forthas - 12/9/2016, 9:21 AM
@TomSolo - The benefit to the Star Wars franchise is the same as adding Iron Man to the Avengers. It opens up a broader world of opportunities creatively...if it (the launch of the Dune franchise) is successful then it adds to the success of Star Wars whereas in a pure rivalry it could detract from it.

If Disney signs on as a partner it has NO RISK! If the Dune side of the equation does not take hold...Disney has Star Wars to to fall back on and Dune disappears into the night...if it is hugely successful then Disney is in a position to at the very least share the spoils with legendary and a the most be best positioned to buy out Legendary and have a fourth tent pole that would compliment the Star Wars universe.

If Disney DOES NOT sign on as a partner and Dune fails...Disney has neither gained or loss anything...if Dune is hugely successful, Disney now has a rival and risks losing market share in that unique movie genre. Almost inevitably it will create studio/brand rivalries that would not be unlike DC vs Marvel. Even if Disney "remains the dominant brand" ... at the end of the day the best case scenario is they would be either no better off or in the worst case less better off.

So if you are a share holder in Disney you see that that best way for Disney to corner the market on fantasy space adventures is to collaborate with Legendary, help cultivate its success and ultimately if there is an opportunity buy the new successful franchise. I would imagine as part of such a deal would be that Legendary could ONLY develop Dune along side Star Wars with Disney's involvement. If they (Legendary) walk away at any point they would continue to have to pay Disney for future Dune movies.
TomSolo
TomSolo - 12/9/2016, 11:15 PM
@Forthas - This is definitely NOT a "no risk" situation for Disney. If Dune fails or is even only moderately successful, the Star Wars brand has then been tarnished by a sub-par putting. Plus, they risk pissing off fans of both franchises. And if Dune fails, now they attached themselves to a mythology that they would then want nothing to do with but still must acknowledge and play by those rules too.

Look, it's great that you like this idea, but Disney would never be crazy enough to risk this amalgamation. Star Wars makes bank with everything they release. Why risk adding a minor franchise like Dune? There is simply no real benefit. If they like certain aspects of Dune, they will just adopt and tweak them as they see fi and give no credit.
Forthas
Forthas - 12/12/2016, 11:45 AM
@TomSolo - Let me unpack your arguments to explain why it is not the case
1. “This is definitely NOT a "no risk" situation for Disney. If Dune fails or is even only moderately successful, the Star Wars brand has then been tarnished by a sub-par putting.”

This is not true. For whatever reason, some film franchises transcend the rules usually ascribed to ones that are not as firmly established. Star Wars CAN withstand a level of failure that would not derail the brand. That is not the case with every franchise for example Avatar - a popular but still generic space fantasy franchise which I don’t think can take many chances by introducing radically new ideas. Star Wars has survived the prequels and the awful Christmas and Ewok themed movies with very little damage to the brand. PLUS the smart way to roll out a crossover would be to do Dune as a Cable (Showtime, HBO, or Starz) limited series in a Star Wars like universe using the Star Wars model as a basis for the feel of it. If it is well received, THEN and ONLY THEN begin to align the universes in a feature Dune focus film and a subsequent Star Wars film.

2. “Plus, they risk pissing off fans of both franchises.”

I don’t think the fans of Dune would object to having Disney studios do for their favorite space fantasy what it has done for Star Wars. Likewise the expansion of the Star Wars extended universe has been mostly driven by fans and largely through books. The introduction of new concepts, ideas and characters is the model behind why the Star Wars saga has become more complex. Adding a slightly revised Dune universe (which has numerous similarities in imagery, themes and character arch) to that cannon would complement what is already there.

3. “Star Wars makes bank with everything they release. Why risk adding a minor franchise like Dune? There is simply no real benefit.”

What you call a risk is actually what would likely be the benefit. Dune maybe a “minor franchise” but from a literary stand point it is the bestselling science fiction novel of all time. Just like how the Lord of The Rings, Twilight and other bestselling fantasy titles led to major motion pictures with rabid fans, likewise Disney would add to its fan base a group who are perhaps more enthusiastic about the Dune property as opposed to Star Wars. As the Twilight movies proved, fans invested in beloved books help movies become critic proof thus helping increase box office success if not critical success.

4. “If they like certain aspects of Dune, they will just adopt and tweak them as they see fi and give no credit.”

How exactly would that work? The basis for my article is that they are ALREADY similar. For example, in the Dune saga there was an oppressive “Imperium” Disney is not going to randomly create an Imperium for Star Wars since they already have the Empire or First Order. BUT if the galaxy in which Star Wars takes place somehow came in contact with the one in which Dune takes place…there would be NO reason to reinvent an Imperium because it already exists. Thus they could use it as yet another threat without any jarringly contrived reasoning. Also, if Star Wars wanted to introduce a new galaxy of characters and places then they would have to populate it with a mythology and characters and back story that would takes years to develop. Why do that when there is something that already exists?

It is not at all crazy for Disney to pursue this strategy. It would be smart business by simultaneously eliminating potential competition; capturing the attention of a dedicated fan base; and expanding the already expansive universe of Star Wars to a point where it would take another studio a decade to create as intricate and far reaching as the combined world building Star Wars and Dune would create. There would be nothing like it and it could not be duplicated anytime soon.
TomSolo
TomSolo - 12/12/2016, 12:15 PM
@Forthas - I see. You are clearly here to state why your idea is amazing and why everyone should agree with you and not actually think and possibly entertain the notion that this idea, while fun, might be ridiculous.

Look, I read your article. I don't need to reread it again as a rebuttal to my opinions. I really don't have the energy to engage in this anymore. You have a neat idea, but there is no reason for Disney to do this, and they never, ever will.

I hope you write more articles. You seem like a passionate fan. Try also realizing that others may have valid and more sensible viewpoints.
Forthas
Forthas - 12/12/2016, 1:37 PM
@TomSolo - @TomSolo - Thanks for the feedback! I AM here to state why my idea is amazing and why everyone should agree with me...that is why this is in the "editorial" section.

EDITORIAL [edəˈtôrēəl] - an article giving opinions or perspectives

If you don't "have the energy to engage in this" then don't! By no means are you in any way required to respond, agree, or endorse what I wrote. It is simply my opinion. As to whether or not Disney does or does not do this...I really have no idea. My point is not to try to predict whether they will or will not...it is to argue whether they should or should not. Two completely different things.

I appreciate your taking the time to read it, and best of luck!
JDL
JDL - 12/9/2016, 10:14 PM
If Disney wanted Dune they would already have it.
Forthas
Forthas - 12/12/2016, 8:59 AM
@JDL - Disney has been after the Fantastic Four, X-Men and Deadpool but they don't have them. Plus the newly realized success of Star Wars would have only recently made them realize what they could accomplish in the future. Dune should be part of their plans if they are smart.
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