THUNDERBOLTS* Will Fail To Break Even At The Box Office - Is Marvel Studios Planning A Strategy Change?

@dragon316 - you make no sense at all...

@THEKENDOMAN - calm down buddy. It was a good movie

@THEKENDOMAN - sheesh! Ever think about medication? Or even illegal hard drugs? Or is that what is the problem?

@THEKENDOMAN - My vote ia medication.

* 4) They followed the model of the comics that destroyed their comic book business and force them to go bankrupt in the first place. They kept the continuity going for the older fans and alienated all new audiences.


Stan Lee's Marvel was woke from the get-go. The idea that woke killed the MCU is an online fallacy. Even the MCU was woke during the Infinity Saga. Their wokeness netted them billions.

@ObserverIO - This is a lie. Liberal does not equal Woke. Woke is the opposite of liberal.

I don't know why we keep having to explain this.

@ObserverIO - No, You are trying to conflate Liberalism with Woke politics.

They are not the same thing.
Conveying a message in the comics is very different from forcing an agenda.
When Marvel went full on Woke with the new Ms. Marvel, the lesbian parents of America Chavez, Ironheart being the new Tony Stark, etc.
And forcing their agenda they lost their audience.

Then they lost sales, went bankrupt, had to sell off a ton of their IPs and Perlmutter ended up buying what was left in order to save Marvel from decimation.
Perlmutter was trying to keep Marvel Studios from making the same mistake with Feige's desire to create the MSheU...but Feige went crying to Iger. Iger got rid of Perlmutter and Feige was free to destroy the brand......which he did.

@ObserverIO - No, you said they were always Woke.

They most certainly were never Woke. They were liberal. Always liberal. Woke and liberal are not the same, they are opposites.

Woke is Captain Marvel and RiRi Williams.

Liberal is Ellen Ripley and Sarah Connor.

@YonnyLayna - That's one of the many problems.

As I posted yesterday, all they had to do was drop a post credits scene after Endgame so it was clear at that the story would continue and Endgame didn't feel so final.

Then focus on the aftermath of the 5 years after the snap, and the chaos of the return of all of the people who were dusted.
With Ronin killing so many of the crime lords it left an open season for Kingpin to really seize power.
With the chaos of the fallen governments it left an opening for Dr. Doom to seize power from Latveria.

They missed so many golden opportunities.

That and some galactic after effects would have been great in Phase 4. Captain Marvel trying to fix intergalactic threats.
Nova showing up to avenge the destruction of his planet by Thanos before the snap.
Thor trying to find a planet to be the home for Asgard since they can no longer stay on earth as a result of the people returning.

There is SO much they could have done, but chose not to.

I am thinking about making a YouTube video on all of the missed opportunities....or several videos. Just need the time

@HistoryofMatt - I said woke too. He said woke first.
Captain Marvel, Riri Williams, Ellen Ripley and Sarah Connor are all woke because they are strong female leads.

@TyrantBossMedia - All of your examples (new Ms Marvel, America Chavez, Ironheart, etc) happened LONG AFTER Marvel almost went bankrupt. That was in 1996. And long after they sold the movie options to different studios. Long after they were forced to sell up to Perlmutter and Arad.
The examples you mentioned not only happened long after 1996 but also quite some time after the MCU even.

Or maybe you can just actually say "Forcing an agenda" because then we'll all know what you mean. As long as you tell us exactly what that agenda is of course.

@HistoryofMatt - I never said they shared anything other than genitalia. The fact that they are all strong female leads is the very thing that makes them woke.

"Woke is a society that judges you differently based on the color of your skin, conveying virtue to some and villainy to others no matter how good or poor their character."

My dude, that is not what woke is.

@TyrantBossMedia -
"1) They didn't' have to go THAT big. All you really needed was the original six Avengers fighting side-by-side since they were conveniently the ones that the infinity stones did not dust after the snap. That meant that those six were destined to beat Thanos and get back the gauntlet and bring back everyone else."

I don't think it would have changed anything. Covid has changed everything.

2) They can go into semi-retirement as characters. Stark decides to step away and be with his family. Cap decides to go back into hiding and live a life of anonymity being Nomad."

Stark and Cap would still be gone.

"3) Grounded would have worked very well, with part of Phase 4 being galactic. Grounded shows the problems that everyone has in their own backyards. It's very relatable."

Grounded will.not.sell.overseas.

@Radders - I think my main question about that definition would be how does Marvel fit that description? What is the authoritarian means and what is the ideology and how are they pushing it?

Also, I just googled 'Cultural Marxism ' and that sounds like a hell of a can of worms all it's own. Are you saying that the new definition of woke is a conspiracy theory? It's still ill-defined and vague and therefore you can change the meaning of 'New Woke' to fit whatever it is you want it to mean.

Without a proper definition for this New Woke, I think I'll stick to the meaning it's had over the last few decades or so.

@Radders - Okay, so the Oxford definition makes it sound just as paranoid as wikipedia did.

But it seems to boil down to people using art to promote a left-wing bias.

Left wing, like right wing is a broad spectrum also. There's a lot of give and take on both sides. It is more left to be in favor of diversity over straight white males all day every day. But that doesn't mean that if you are right-leaning that you strongly disagree with that. If you're staunchly far-right then sure. But women and black people have led movies and been superheroes for decades upon decades now. In society women have almost equal rights. Since the Civil Rights movement a persons color and creed doesn't makes them second class citizens.

You might disagree with these kinds of left-wing ideologies, but you can't stop other people from having them or putting them into the art they make. And not every right-leaning person has a problem with all of these ideologies.

Marvel also put right-wing viewpoints in their movies. Tony Stark, a rich, white, straight male was proven correct about his right wing ideologies regarding the protection of the world. He didn't care for the libertoes of the people, he wanted to survey everyone and register everyone and put weapons in space, etc. etc. "Whether it affects your precious freedoms or not!" he says.
All very right wing and then Thanos came and they were caught with their pants down. He was proven right and he made sure Cap and the rest of the dissenters knew that he had told them so and they didn't listen.

Also Victoria Alonso was fired for essentially being too progressive.

Like in most things there is a give and take. Art imitates life, because of the natural organic process of artistic collaboration. The people working on these films are not hive-minded stepford zombies despite what the conspiracy theories suggest.

@Radders - Yes it is. Or at least it seems to be.

Tell me, what exactly is your particular problem if not diversity in movies? You've told me that it's propaganda, but what idea or 'agenda' is being propagated? Because to me it seems to be the idea of equality which you've just said that you're all for.

If you're not then that's bigoted, racist, sexist, etc. I've no problem using those words because that's what it is. I'm not subtly implying it. It sees to me that anyone who is anti-woke is by definition bigoted.

If you take that as an insult, that's a good thing. I would too. It just means that you don't want to be racist/sexist/bigoted. Or at least that you don't want to be thought of as being those things. That's good. At the very least it's a start.

The condemned scene in question, the A-Force scene was very obviously forced. It was A-Forced, lol. It wasn't very subtle at all. It was a way to say to audiences 'Look at all the female superheroes we've got! Aren't we progressive?" It was virtue signalling.
The reason probably being to have all the women and feminists in the audience cheer. The movie was built on cheer-moments. Not many of them if any of them were subtle.
The motivation for putting moments into a movie that you think the audience might cheer for is to get a bigger box office. Money is the key motivator here, I would surmise, rather than promoting an agenda.

But lets say I'm wrong and the whole point of this scene was to promote an agenda. What is the agenda? It seems to me to be pro-women.
Now are you adamantly against this scene (so much so that you're talking about about it on the internet 6 years later) because it wasn't subtle or because of the message it's promoting?

You don't need to tell me that. You've gone on at length to tell me that the thing you don't like about these movies is the propaganda. Therefore the reason you don't like it is because of the pro-women message it promotes. That actually does make you sexist.

So what was the point of telling me that the reason you didn't like it was because it was unsubtle and contrived? If that's the only reason that you didn't like it then it's got nothing to do with what we're talking about. But that's not the reason you disliked it.

You compared it to another scene of female-empowerment to give me an example of the kinds of female empowerment that you're okay with and to let me know that you're not in fact a sexist bigot but you're simply trying to guard against unsubtlety.
People do this all the time. They'll say they're not sexist because they like Terminator with Sarah Connor or Aliens with Ripley or Titanic with Rose, lol. But that they don't like any other female leads because of... other reasons.

That would be fine if people were calling you sexist for not like that scene in Endgame and you were trying to convince us all that you're not sexist. But that's not the case. You're saying that you don't like the message that you see as being promoted by means of propaganda.

So that's kind of disingenuous.

And it makes me wonder who you're trying to convince, me or yourself?
I hope it's yourself because you're not convincing me at all. And also because it would mean that you don't like to think of yourself that way. Which is good.

@Radders - Your umbrage means that you are insulted by my suggestion that you might be bigoted. I'm glad of this. Doesn't mean I'm being impolite though. Just being honest.
If you are against scenes like the A-Force scene because it's unsubtle, that's not sexist. If it's the pro-women message that you don't like then you are sexist. What do you want me to tell you? That's just how it is.