Why not having Hank Pym in the Avengers: Age of Ultron is a bad idea.

Why not having Hank Pym in the Avengers: Age of Ultron is a bad idea.

Hank Pym is not in the next Avengers movie. This is why that's not a good thing.

Editorial Opinion
By GinjaNinja - Jul 23, 2013 07:07 AM EST

Origin's story
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Let’s think of possible origins stories here. A few of them are that S.H.I.E.L.D. makes Ultron, or maybe stark makes him. Lastly that some other villain makes him as a tool. Think about these three ideas. If just S.H.I.E.L.D. makes this guy where is the emotional connection? He loses a lot of the feeling from a hero that “I created this” and in the comic Hank has this on him constantly. The other option would be that stark makes him. But a quick look tells us this isn’t a good idea. Stark is almost perfect, whatever he makes isn’t going to go crazy. He isn’t going to make a robot that he can’t completely control with Jarvis. He makes a suit that he uses to beat Magneto for goodness sakes. The guy doesn’t mess up, and that’s what makes him great. Now don’t get me wrong. Iron man is one of my favorite heroes, but don’t you think he’s getting a little too much attention here? Avengers he was the most used character. He did everything. Had the confrontation with Loki, carried the missal, had high screen time. Did it make the movie perfect? Heck yeah it did. But looking back, he’s had 3 movies to everyone else’s 1. I think it’s time to just let someone else take a little control. Last option is villain creation but that just is so wrong it’s ridiculous. Again no emotional connection to the team, secondly he would be a pawn. He would just be getting used; it wouldn’t be him doing it. Sure yeah he could get too powerful for his creator but it just wouldn’t be the same.

Excitement.
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Ant Man movie comes out in 2015. What does the average person think about this? They are thinking “That’s a stupid name for a movie, that’s a stupid movie”. Show all the previews you want but the average person isn’t going to get excited for this even if it is right after Avenger: Age of Ultron. Now what if we find out that this guy was a HUGE part in creating Ultron? Then people will get way more excited for his own movie. They will be able to relate to the last movie. Unless Ultron doesn’t get destroyed in the Avengers: Age of Ultron and we are able to see him in the Ant Man movie. But then it will be more about getting people excited for the Villain more than Ant Man. If Ultron isn’t in Ant Man, either they have him fight Egg head (who I like) or some other villain. Getting people excited for Ant Man VS Egg Head won’t go well with the public. Comic fans yes, but just look at the names. If there is another villain they use it would be a missed chance to show a good Ant Man villain and the movie will almost be pointless. It will just be a “Yeah this guy has powers and we are killing time till our next movie and this guy is an avenger” not the true movie we want.

Ant Man is Ultron’s Father.
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Ok, put aside all of the above. That is opinion that I think many fans share with me. Could they somehow knock that out of the park in the box office? Probably, but this is what Hank has done. Hank Pym’s most important thing in the universe is probably that he created Ultron. Now we have seen them go against the comics before. Iron Man 3 is the perfect example. They ruined the mandarin. However the Mandarin isn’t the most important of villains. He’s great don’t get me wrong, but they just portrayed him differently. I hated it at first, but after seeing the movie a second time I accepted it for what it was. It was funny, and they still made a great movie. Ultron isn’t the Mandarin. Ultron is in my opinion the greatest Avengers Villain there is. You don’t screw with perfection. Along with that, Ultron is the Harvey Dent of Marvel. He is a huge failure for Hank that nobody can defeat. In a ways its worse of a failure due to the destruction Ultron can create. Can Joss pull this off? Yeah he can, he can make a great movie out of it. I’ll be honest I’d take a wrong origins story Ultron over no Ultron any day. But the Mandarin had no real barring on the universe as a whole, Ultron does. Even if you make a 2 billion box office, the true fans will not be pleased with the way this is done. So please Joss, even if you don’t put Hank directly in the movie. Have him as at least a behind the scenes creator of Ultron.

Avengers: Age of Ultron comes out Spring 2015.
Ant Man comes out fall 2015.

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LEVITIKUZ
LEVITIKUZ - 7/23/2013, 7:37 AM
Source material ain't Bible.

Nuff said.
LEVITIKUZ
LEVITIKUZ - 7/23/2013, 7:48 AM
MAC

No it doesn't. Ant-Man hasn't even been introduced yet.

Meanwhile Tony has. Tony also has Jarvis and we know him.

Storytelling wise, it would more personal if Jarvis was Ultron with Tony creating him then add in Ant-Man out of no where and force him in it.
LEVITIKUZ
LEVITIKUZ - 7/23/2013, 8:12 AM
MAC

Ant-Man and Wasp has yet to be in a Marvel film. Introducing Ant-Man just for the sake of him creating Ultron is like how in JL: Origins, Aquaman was introduced forcefully (let's me honest the scene was cool but him coming out of the water was random as [frick]) and him not doing anything else.

You needed to introduce Ant-Man and Wasp to the audience for this to work. Sadly Marvel hasn't.

Ultron's purpose is to do what every evil robot does:





As long as they get Ultron's character right, I'm fine with a different origin story.
xcrementus
xcrementus - 7/23/2013, 8:15 AM
Making Pym the father of Ultron implies that Pym is going to be a big deal in the MCU.
When in fact, he's probably not even gonna be Antman.

If he's not Antman, then who cares??

The fact that they'd throw away one of Pym's biggest storylines pretty much concretes that Lang will be Antman.
WYLEEJAY
WYLEEJAY - 7/23/2013, 8:24 AM
If theu don't go the Pym route, I would like to see Thanos corrupt Jarvis. That way Tony will feel kinda responsible. Personal and painful, that's what Whedon said before. Jarvis already knows how to create a body, so what happens if Ultron attacks Wakanda to get the Vibranium to build the ultimate body? We get Black Panther. Is it possible to have nine heroes in one film?
ruadh
ruadh - 7/23/2013, 8:56 AM
"Why not having Hank Pym in the Avengers: Age of Ultron is a bad idea."

I don't even need to read the article. I'm guessing the answer is "because rigid comic book fans can't deal with alternatives."
marvel72
marvel72 - 7/23/2013, 9:30 AM
it doesn't bother me,marvel studios treated the mandarin worse.
Minato
Minato - 7/23/2013, 10:52 AM
lol @beto Thats brilliant and give him 10 ring pops
Ocelot
Ocelot - 7/23/2013, 10:54 AM
There' far more emotional payoff for the audience if Stark is the creator, we've seen him in four movies already and are accustomed with the character. Pym hasn't even been introduced, so there's no point, yeah we see this guy in one film(in small parts) and he builds a robot and it goes bad so what, audience wont care, now if it's Iron Man it gets people talking.

If Pym had already been established on screen and in the first Avengers movie or another then it would have worked as you would know the character and would have seen the character face the repercussions for his actions, his friends and his overall failiure but we wont as he's not part of The Avengers and we dont know the character as he hasn't been established.

Furthermore Ultron's character and motives stay the same with or without Pym being the creator. Iron man being the creator is clearly a fusion between the Iron Man sentient armor storyline and Ultron's, you're not gonna call a rouge evil armor/robot "the sentient armor are you" it needs a name a good name, it has a similar backstory to Ultron, so it makes sense to fuse the concepts if that's what they do. In the Sentient armor storyline, the armor had a hatred of Stark like Ultron does for Pym.

Expect Pym in the mcu to be an old man around Selvig's age who's simply responsible for the creation of the Pym Particles and suit which are stolen and used by Lang in the Ant-Man film.
Minato
Minato - 7/23/2013, 11:03 AM
Guys I love the source material as much as anyone else but I dont really wanna see the exact story that Ive already read before. As much as I loved Watchmen and The Dark Knight Rises knowing the story took a great deal of excitement from the movies. I think with Stark being Ultrons "father" instead of Pym would resonate with the general audience 100,000 more. I was a huge fan of the avengers when it was all three of the major duos on the team: Pym and Van Dyne, Barton and Romanoff, and The Maximoff twins. Give Marvel a chance as many movies as they are making there is no way they are going to be able to tell everyones favorite story. By having Ultron in this movie that pretty much says well never see: Kang, Masters of Evil, Kree vs Skrull, and countless others. Get over it
GinjaNinja
GinjaNinja - 7/23/2013, 11:40 AM
Don't get me wrong, they can make it work. It is true that is jarvis became corrupt it would be emotional, but it kills of ant man almost. He doesn't have much to go on. I am going to attempt to write something about how it's a good idea but I really don't think it is.
calin88
calin88 - 7/23/2013, 12:46 PM
There was a rumor some time ago, that Henry Pym lived in the 60s or something like that and the movie would focus on Lang as the second Ant-Man, the 60s setting wouldn't be too goofy for a character named Antman, and you could connec(maybe) Pym to Howard Stark, who had an idea about robots, and Tony(like in Iron Man 2) can find some footage, try to improve Jarvis, and you can still have Henry Pym as a starting point for Ultron, he could be the one who came up with the name and design, I would be fine with that
Minato
Minato - 7/23/2013, 12:55 PM
Calin88 is on to something
If they used 60s Pym as a mental blueprint for Jarvis wouldnt that keep most of the Ultron mythos intact? Ultron could confront a 70 year old Pym as his original creator.
CapitanAmerika2
CapitanAmerika2 - 7/23/2013, 1:20 PM
@MAC and Levi: Are you too like archenemies or something.

I am also agreeing with most people on here. It is wrong to use Ultron without Hank Pym involved. Without Hank Pym in Avengers 2 then the Ant Man movie will just flop.

kinghulk
kinghulk - 7/23/2013, 1:44 PM
i just realised whedon said pym wont be in the movie, he said nothing about scott lang or wasp. what if they combined pym and lang you know so lang has pym intellect and girlfriend and connection to ultron. i mean wasent vanko supposed to be a combination of the crimson dynamo and whiplash ( i read that some where) if so it wouldent be the first time they have combined characters. so what do you think?
Tainted87
Tainted87 - 7/23/2013, 6:04 PM
This is getting embarrassing, really.

An entire page of articles devoted to Comic-Con revelations.... expected.

55% of those articles directly relating to Ultron.... tiring.

Again, it's expected that we're going to have a reaction, but clearly no one is reading the articles. Because if they did, they'd use the comment section to voice their own opinions.
===

A while back, when Planet Hulk was rumored to be in the early stages of existing as a "live-action" adaptation (kind of hard to call it that, considering how everyone would be computer-generated), I had the Ultron theory in mind.

Back then, Ultron was there as a HAL kind of AI, rather than a fully-formed physical monstrosity. Cold and calculating, he was my solution as to why the Hulk would be sent out into space.

Taking almost directly from World War Hulk, specifically the X-Men tie-in issue where Hulk is raiding the mansion... Darwin's evolutionary responses are trying to absorb the gamma radiation, to no effect. Suddenly the Hulk attacks him directly, and his body responds by teleporting him somewhere else.

So, the Hulk - the Avengers most powerful response... is the biggest threat to Ultron. Wild, unpredictable, only governed by his humanity - something this AI wouldn't understand. So Ultron lures him into a capsule and shoots him off into the stars, neutralizing the threat.

As it happens, Planet Hulk isn't on the menu, nor did I really ever think it was or should be. But Ultron is the ideal second-stage villain, and here's why.

1) His nature is to evolve. Take another cue from X-Men, specifically the Brotherhood's stance on evolution - and Ultron's motivations become quite clear.

*1a) Following that line of thought, Ultron should be a technological marvel (no pun), constantly upgrading and adapting his mainframe with weapons and defenses - things it would have acquired from the Avengers.

*1b) Ultron would be studying the Avengers (the heroes of NY who repelled an alien invasion) as the most dominant "humans" on the planet. More intel would follow.

2) Also a while back, Whedon exclaimed that the next movie would be deeper, affecting the Avengers on a much more personal level. Considering the last point - who would have "birthed" Ultron? Probably someone who doesn't trust the Avengers to always be on their side, to always be there when called upon, to always follow their orders. I'm thinking SHIELD, now more than ever, with what's been revealed about The Winter Soldier.

*2a) SHIELD wants their own response, one they can rely upon. Ultron is that. A robotic unit not unlike a remote-controlled Iron Man suit. As we know, SHIELD is going through it's own schism, and their intelligence might be falsified by those not on board with the World Council's doctrine.

*2b) This is where every dirty little secret kept by the Avengers comes to light. Their pasts will come back to create all the more mistrust between the gang, and possibly the very people they're protecting. So who would be able to infiltrate each and EVERY one of the Avengers', and go unnoticed?

3) HANK PYM. Well, actually just Ant-Man, but no one cares about the other people. A more voluntary Ant-Man to have done this would be Eric O'Grady, but I don't want him aboard. This needs to be someone without an agenda, someone rendered expendable, someone who doesn't even know what he's doing.

*3a) But Hank has been declared NOT in "Age of Ultron". And that's likely the way it will be. If he was the one behind the biggest security breach on the planet, I'm pretty positive that would end his relationship right there off the bat with the Avengers. Edgar Wright has confirmed that Hank will be in his movie, although we all get the feeling that he's not going to take center stage.

*3b) Ant-Man is the first announced "PHASE 3" movie (God, I hate the whole "phase" bullshit) in the Marvel franchise. They're not going to have him shoot himself in the foot beforehand - he's supposed to have a future of sorts in the MCU. In conclusion, Ultron's origin is going to be classified, and Hank's contribution is going to be retconned.
===

Now, do you care at all about what I had to say? Does it conflict with your own theories? Will that mean you'll ignore it?
Morbius
Morbius - 7/25/2013, 1:18 AM
Joss Whedon just hates Antman its that simple.
GinjaNinja
GinjaNinja - 7/25/2013, 10:54 AM
@morbius. I wouldn't say that, I just don't think he knows how to make him. They gave him a solo film before Hawekeye or Black widow so.....
Blastaar
Blastaar - 7/25/2013, 9:09 PM
LOL! People talking about the domestic violence with Hank Pym....Just stop it. Did Marvel Studios decide not to make Iron Man the movie because he's an alcoholic? Did they decide NOT to make Iron Man because of "Demon in a Bottle"?

All they have to do is NOT show a domestic violence type of Hank Pym...Now was that hard?

Yes Hank Pym makes mistakes, like all of the heroes have within their mythos. The thing with Hank Pym is the importance of....WAIT FOR IT...FIXING HIS BIGGEST MISTAKE. LET HIM HAVE A CHANCE TO "REDEEM" HIMSELF. Pym had good intentions, he didn't know Ultron would turn out to be how he did. Just like a parent can raise a child as best they can in a good household, in a good environment with values but the child can still for whatever reason become a serial killer. The idea of flawed characters makes for a more interesting and textured dynamic, especially for a character who needs it such as Hank Pym who doesn't have much more appeal for himself. Let's face it, most people think the character is lame(I don't). Why take away THE most interesting dynamic that the character has that would make him all the more interesting, to see his genius and but also how it can backfire like Frankenstein's monster.

The dynamic between Hank Pym is like a father and son relationship, Ultron's thoughts come from Pym. Pym thinks the world of humanity is too full of violence, pollution, etc., he hates it. Pym's thoughts come out of Ultron in a very twisted way. Ultron is like the son who tells his dad "(FATHER)I will accomplish what you and all of your friends are failing to do, eliminate the world of violence, and destruction." "You will be proud of me in the end for doing what you failed to do,even though you may also perish if you do not comply."

Ultron only makes sense for Hank Pym to be creator.
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