Is Marvel Setting Itself Up For Failure?

Is Marvel Setting Itself Up For Failure?

Crazy question, I know, but I think it's possible. Hit the jump to see if you have thought of this too.

Editorial Opinion
By shock - Jun 30, 2013 10:06 AM EST
Filed Under: Avengers

Is Marvel setting itself up for failure? Most people would consider this question absurd. How can a billion dollar franchise coming off its two most successful movies, The Avengers and Iron Man 3, be in trouble? Not to mention The Avengers 2 is probably the most anticipated sequel since The Dark Knight.

In May audiences everywhere enjoyed the 3rd installment of the Iron Man franchise. The movie ends with Tony Stark no longer needing his arc reactor center piece, and the idea he can move on in life without Iron Man. Obviously news broke weeks later that RDJ will return to the Avengers franchise as Tony Stark. However, no word of a 4th Iron Man movie was mentioned leading to believe the stand alone Iron Man franchise could be finished. This fall and next summer we will get the sequels to Thor and Captain America which will lead into Avengers 2. Assuming Marvel follows the same pattern as Iron Man, we will see the third installments of Thor and Captain America some time in Phase 3. Leading to the question of will we see the end of Iron Man, Thor, and Captain America in the Marvel universe or will the storylines continue through Avenger sequels?

In the comics characters were constantly being killed off or disbanded and then make dramatic returns. That version of story telling is very appropriate for comic books, but I do not believe it is possible in movies. Due to money, age, or just boredom it is difficult to have the same actors reprise roles beyond 3 movies. Marvel has hundreds of characters with thousands of storylines that could spin off dozens of potential movies. I think it goes without saying they have used most of the popular characters to date. With Guardians of the Galaxy on the way along with Ant-Man and Doctor Strange Marvel is very driven to expand the current movie universe. As this next wave of characters enters and the possibility of Iron Man, Thor, and Captain America eventually fading out will Marvel be able to maintain the standard of movie they have set? Is Hank Pym going to be as interesting as Tony Stark? Stephen Strange as mystical as Thor? This will be a challenge that Marvel will have to address in the near future, but I believe they are more than up for the task. Marvel has surrounded itself with wonderful talent from the actors, directors, and screenwriters. They continue to push the boundaries and present unprecedented entertainment. In 2007 they gave the world Iron Man as a starting point for a massive storyline, but like all great stories the ending must be up to par.

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Shaggy
Shaggy - 6/30/2013, 10:19 AM
i don't know. ask MrShumway
DRMidNite
DRMidNite - 6/30/2013, 10:30 AM
Tony will wake up, find Pepper in the shower and realize that IM3 was just a dream. Franchise saved.
TheManFromMars
TheManFromMars - 6/30/2013, 10:31 AM
LEVITIKUZ
LEVITIKUZ - 6/30/2013, 11:14 AM
Here's the thing with Marvel Studios that people need to see and shut up and notice:

The difference between Fox & WBs is that THEY HAVE FAILED MARVEL STUDIOS HASN'T!!!

Some view failure as a negative but its a positive. You learn from failures. WBs didn't put out Superman Rebirth because of the failure of Batman & Robin. After Batman & Robin failed, they rebooted and did Batman Begins. After they gave it another try at the Donner series with Superman Returns, they rebooted for Man of Steel. With Fox after X3 failed, they deceided to do First Class. After X-Men Origins failed, they decided to base the next off the Japan Saga. The great Michael Jordan once said:

I failed over and over in life. And that's why I succeed.

Marvel Studios along with Sony hasn't failed. Marvel Studios needs to fail and fail big.
Batarangmandan
Batarangmandan - 6/30/2013, 11:32 AM
Marvel studios are no strangers to recasting. They'll probably just leave a character fallow for a few years and recast, but it will not be a reboot. They can then get a new creative team on board several years down the line to redefine the character. This would work much the same way that comics do. Either that or after a few more phases they'll just reboot the whole continuity.
Batarangmandan
Batarangmandan - 6/30/2013, 11:40 AM
Also, they could probably get away with turning a few characters into legacy superheroes for a bit.For instance Bucky replacing Steve as Captain America, Rhodey could be Iron-Man for a bit, Thor's powers could be transferred to Eric Masters played by Liam Hemsworth haha.
RedSkull667
RedSkull667 - 6/30/2013, 12:06 PM
So where is the point where you try to prove that Marvel Studios is going to fail?
WYLEEJAY
WYLEEJAY - 6/30/2013, 1:07 PM
Well the first five films lead up to Avengers. With Phase 2, I don't think GOTG has much to do with the Avengers. More of a stand alone film. In phase three we know their gonna do the same with Doctor Strange. So are there gonna be more tie in films to the Avengers in phase 3, that is the question. Or are they gonna start doing more stand alone films in their next phases and let the Avengers films tell their story on their own?
MrCBM56
MrCBM56 - 6/30/2013, 2:15 PM
JokerFanHahaHa

Don't forget Abomination.

And Levi

Marvel has failed. Lots of times. Marvel has risen from being cheap made for TV movies to one of the best studios in the business today.
shock
shock - 6/30/2013, 2:26 PM
@RedSkull667

I don't think Marvel will fail. I think they'll make continue to make great movies. My point is they had huge success with the original characters and if they phase them out will the new characters like Ant Man and Dr. Strange be as good. Can Marvel make Hank Pym or Stephen Strange as interesting and entertaining has Tony Star or Steve Rogers? Will the story line be as strong and have the same franchise material? Marvel Comics is better known for characters like Iron Man, Hulk, and Spiderman. Not Guardians of the Galaxy or Black Panther.
LEVITIKUZ
LEVITIKUZ - 6/30/2013, 2:33 PM
Marvel Studios hasn't failed while Marvel has. Big difference.
TheManFromMars
TheManFromMars - 6/30/2013, 3:06 PM
@MartianAbominationClone
ruadh
ruadh - 6/30/2013, 5:02 PM
I actually think there's a good chance there will not be a Thor 3 or Cap 3. I know the actors are contracted for blah blah, but that doesn't matter. So was Ed Norton.

Iron Man 3 FELT like a closing film for his solo series. I'm very glad he's back for more Avengers, and am expecting Cap 2 to be the final sequel. Non-team films from now on will just be solo films for people like Dr. Strange and Antman, or people like the Inhumans and Heroes For Hire.

I do believe that's where Marvel Studios' head is right now. I also believe that if Thor 2 and Cap 2 make a killing, or at least Iron Man 2 money, then things may change. Otherwise, I expect the only sequel in Phase 3 to be Avengers 3.
TheRaven20
TheRaven20 - 6/30/2013, 5:42 PM
Iron Man 3= FAIL
MrCBM56
MrCBM56 - 6/30/2013, 6:18 PM
Levi

No it's not a big difference, is merely a difference at all. Marvel and Marvel Studios essentially are the same thing. The difference is that Marvel lets some other Studios distribute their films. Like I said before, Marvel use to just release cheap low budget films made for TV. Some so bad they were never released, (fantastic four, 1994 or something like that), and some shows so bad couldn't even even last a full season, (Spider-Man in the 1970's). It's not Marvel fault they have quality movies coming out. You want them to fail for no reason. The reason WB fail is because they don't care about their DC properties. If a DC movie fail, WB have plenty of other movies that are money grabbers. That's why DC needs thier own studio...Like Marvel.

And since we're on the subject, Marvel STUDIOS has failed technically.

The Incredible Hulk-financial failure
Captain america-financial failure
Thor to a LOT of fans seem to think it sucked because Thor was barely show cases
Iron man 2 is shit to most fans
IM3, although a financial success, is divided among fans

The only financial success and well received movies Marvel STUDIOS have is Iron Man and The Avengers. That's just being technical, I love all Marvel STUDIOS films.
MrCBM56
MrCBM56 - 6/30/2013, 6:20 PM
MAC

why do you want them to fail?
Tainted87
Tainted87 - 6/30/2013, 7:12 PM
I bet Levi has that Edison bumper sticker explaining how he knows 20,000 ways NOT to make a light bulb.

;)

Anyway, more importantly, here's what I think.
Marvel knows what they're doing. Look at 2008's Iron Man. Not a popular comic book character at the time - sure everyone who read comics knew of him, but those who don't - just saw a cool suit of armor. Then they'd look him up on Wiki and see that he's got some really unimpressive villains to entertain, and not a whole hell of a lot of KEY stories (nothing comparable in number and popularity to X-Men, Batman, Spider-man, or Superman) - well bottom line, no one cared about Iron Man. He might as well have been Ant-Man, only with a cool suit.

We all know what happened. Robert Downey Jr killed it. Is his Tony Stark the one from the comics? That's debatable - I'm sure he's depicted several eras throughout the trilogy and the Avengers, but likely no - Downey is really just playing himself. But you know what, it worked. I'll drive around Tampa and find Iron Man today on Verizon Fios billboards - and he'll be referred to as TONY STARK, not even the superhero. Back in 2007, that would not have been possible.

I'm not so naive as to think that someone like Robert Downey Jr is going to come around again and make Doctor Strange or Ant-Man the next big characters that advertising agencies can't get enough of - but at the same time, I'd like to believe that there are writers at Marvel who are self-aware enough to understand where changes need to be made.

The movie Hank might be a total badass - he might be completely different from the comics in personality, but then, he might not be. Doctor Strange might be a mystical version of Sherlock Holmes, with the charisma and modern take derivative of one Doctor Gregory House.

Imagination - that's the key.
MrCBM56
MrCBM56 - 6/30/2013, 7:28 PM
Tainted

You hit the nail right on the head. But I don't think it's so much of RDJ playing himself, it's more of the director not pushing him to play the part a certain way. RDJ basically went out thier and improvised it. And if played off.
CaptainAmerica31
CaptainAmerica31 - 6/30/2013, 7:30 PM
Of course they'll fail, they will probably go on a 10-20 year hiatus while we're supplemented with Superman batman and possibly Spidey flicks. Spider-man will most likely go back to marvel studios and they'll use him as defibrillator to the whole universe. Start it all there because just likes supes and bats, Spidey is the flagship character at marvel
CPBuff22
CPBuff22 - 6/30/2013, 11:08 PM
I liked the statement that Marvel hasn't failed. And I hope they continue not to. But when they hit that point I just hope they don't go the way of WB and just reboot everything and make it even worse. I mean it really shouldn't be that hard to get Batman & Superman right.
mook
mook - 7/1/2013, 5:26 AM
The MCU now has 'safe' films to release following IronMan3;
these are Cap2, Thor2, Avengers2, Cap3 and Thor3.

Inbetween they can introduce new and/or riskier characters;
for example GotG, Ant-Man and (we assume) Dr.Strange.

As the Cap and Thor trilogies come to an end the new characters that take off can have thier own sequels.

This process can then continue and can be assisted by the TV Show(s) helping introduce characters/concepts.
GoILL
GoILL - 7/1/2013, 8:20 AM
When I read this sentence the first thing I thought was what alternate universe do you live in.

In May audiences everywhere enjoyed the 3rd installment of the Iron Man franchise.
ruadh
ruadh - 7/1/2013, 8:25 AM
Don't mistake the few vocal malcontents as a real indication of audiences everywhere. Movies don't make that much money because everyone went to see it, they make that much money because a lot of them went to see it again.
Ace101
Ace101 - 7/2/2013, 12:42 AM
Marvel studios has learned from the failures of marvel entertainment. Unlike the iron man series, both cap and thor esp. Thor are capable of having series that goes beyond 3 movies. I could see 7 Thor movie and the last one being an adaption of ragnarock. There is a lot of stories to adapt from the comics, the fourth host, ballad of beta ray bill, surturs saga, asgards incursion into hell, thor vs ego, thor vs midgard serpent, thor vs mangog, a side story of balder.....where the fuk is balder anyway, he better be in thor:tdw.
Any character they put on screen, even if its a lesser known character to the GA, it has the potential to go blockbuster and become well known like iron man.
AnakinsTwin
AnakinsTwin - 7/2/2013, 5:14 AM
Failure will come when we the fans become bored with what they're giving us. People are fickle and can become bored if you reuse the same formula. Don't tie every movie to the next one. The smartest thing Marvel could do is broaden thier base. Make a total MCU where they are all part of the same continuity but not all part of the same storyline. I believe that's what they're doing. GOTG is in the MCU but a completely different part, keep the story about them and the Nova's. There is so much potential for great story telling outside of IM and the Avengers that it would be a shame if they didn't take advantage of the resourses at hand.
Ocelot
Ocelot - 7/2/2013, 5:41 AM
The more I think about it the more I can see this becoming a reality, I can see it starting with Guardians next years, ultimately it's going to come down to what Marvel Studios want, tell stories or generate substansial revenue. Marvel Studios got lucky in 2008 that Iron Man was able to become a breakout a character and become a major financial success, they would have gone bankrupt again if that never happened which cant be said for the Hulk, who's film was a financial failiure. IMO Iron Man was one of a kind, a character that has a personality with a lot appeal and has the brash lifestyle that a lot of people desire e.g. lives in a mansion, drives expensive cars, has money, can get any woman etc it appeals to almost everyone as it's an idead fantasy. All these combined got the character to break out.

Characters like Dr Strange, Black Panther, Ms Marvel and Ant-Man imo dont have this appeal and unlike their Phase 1 counterparts aren't B or B- characters fame wise among the general public(they're unknowns and C list characters) and even that didn't help all of the films look at The Incredible Hulk and Captain America: The First Avenger to financial underarchivers or failiures. Thor is bases on a mythological character so that's a no a brainer why there's awareness from the general movie going public around the character. Iron Man's had a cartoon series that still airs today and was in Frequent other shows such as STAS and The Incredible hulk cartoon show. Though Most people didn't know anything about Tony Stark pre-Iron Man most people knew that it was a character who was in a red robotic suit.

Ant-Man in my opinion will be the only new character that gets away with and that's because that film will be on a smaller and tighter budget than most Marvel tentpoles. 50-80 million will be the cost imo. The likes of Ms Marvel, Doc Strange and Black Panther will most likely have 150m budgets if ever made. I cant see any of these character, perhaps Strange breaking out like how Iron Man did and can see returns that were slightly better than Captain America's.

There's no way Thor and Cap wont get a third film unless they severly underpeform which I dont think will happen, though Thor will definitely make the most between the two. Marvel will also need proven financial success in case the new character underpeform.

Box Office statistics tell you that the two comic book characters who consistently make the most money at Box Officer are Spiderman and Batman. The most popular and the most known heroes amongst the general public, this has been the case for the last 10 years.
marvel72
marvel72 - 7/2/2013, 7:36 AM
marvel studios are taking big risks with properties like guardians of the galaxy,ant-man & dr.strange.

but saying that i suppose you can have a couple of films that may under perform when you have massive billion dollar hits like the avengers & iron man 3.
RobGrizzly
RobGrizzly - 7/2/2013, 4:40 PM
Here's why I Upvoted this article:

Someone might finally be starting to realize Marvel's catalog may not lend itself to long-term movie-making. I love their ambitious goal. They've changed CBMs forever. And they pulled it off. Avengers is kind of the end of this story. Everything else from here on might seem forced. Disingenuous, as proven by Iron Man 3 kind of wtf-ing us all.
Does anything hold up after Stark hangs up the suit? Thor and Cap barely do, but behind them, is a long line of obscure names no one cares about besides geeks. It seems, as always, that the young studio's success will depend on how well they can get lightning to strike twice for one of these other properties. Good luck to em
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