Stop Defending BATMAN V SUPERMAN (SPOILERS)

Stop Defending BATMAN V SUPERMAN (SPOILERS)

In the waking aftermath of BATMAN V SUPERMAN, fans have been in a raging battle. I’d like to delve a little deeper and explain why I think a lot of people’s opinions are wrong.

Editorial Opinion
By JGrizzle - Mar 28, 2016 06:03 PM EST
Filed Under: Batman vs. Superman

Woah there! I know you probably just read me saying a lot of opinions are wrong, but that’s not to say you can’t enjoy the movie. Like what you want, all movies are subjective. Rather I want to directly call out all the people on the internet who are saying crap like
 
“It’s just a different take on the character” or others like “you just didn’t understand because you’re not a true fan”
 
Actually, one of my personal faves comes from a comment on my own review of Batman V Superman, it is as follows
 
“Lol such obvious trolling. You don't even mention anything spoilery that hasn't already been either shown in the trailers or implied in synopsis. You've obviously gathered from all of the negative hate reviews and jumbled everything here. Just to sound sincere, you praise what everyone's praising - Batman and Wonder Woman. You are a desperate MARVEL fanboy troll trying, and failing miserably, to tell people to not give money to this money. Of course people aren't going to listen to you. Who are you to command them into not seeing this movie. Please go back to curling in a corner and crying that the DCEU has arrived and that MARVEL finally has competition. Pathetic.”
 
(just quickly, directly to this guy, no SPOILER FREE review should have spoilers)
 
Anyway, I’d like to address these kinds of defence.
 



1.) Firstly, that they were ‘different takes’ on the characters.
 
Now, I don’t mind if you want to do a different take on a character, that’s fine. You hear me? FINE… Except, you have to get the absolute heart of that character right. Chris Nolan’s Dark Knight Trilogy has changes to the comic canon yet are still regarded as cinematic masterpieces because Nolan understands Batman, Sam Raimi’s Spider-Man (especially 2) has changes but are still beloved by many because they got the heart of the character right. Sure Spider-Man 3 is a mess, but that’s not Raimi’s fault, and I still thought it was a fair sight better and had more heart than Batman V Superman: Dawn of Nonsense. (Yeah, I said it)
 
Addressing this issue in BvS, you can make all the changes you want Snyder, but have a good reason, stick to your reason, and don’t screw up the heart of the character. Most of us were fine with Superman killing Zod in Man of Steel because the intention was that Superman was backed into a corner and had to do it for the safety of humanity. We get it. You’d been telling us that for three years. But I’d like to just point something out; Superman lets out a heart-filled scream after killing Zod, suggesting that he didn’t want to do it and implying regret, then, at the very beginning of Batman V Superman, he flat out murders some random terrorist.
 
So after all these years of people being divided over Superman snapping Zod’s neck, you have him go murder someone else. I’ll tell you why this doesn’t make sense… BECAUSE LATER IN THE FILM, SUPERMAN IS GETTING ALL HIGH AND MIGHTY ABOUT BATMAN BEING TOO VIOLENT!
 
Do you see what I mean? You’ve made a pretty huge departure from not just the comic version of Superman, but your own version of Superman as established in Man of Steel who you said would kill if necessary. Guess what, it doesn’t work, you’ve ruined your own character, and by ruining the heart, you’ve ruined your story. By making Superman completely okay with murder suddenly you’ve destroyed all his motivations and character drive. Actually, here’s an actual comment made by the writer of Man of Steel, who went on to write Batman V Superman, on Zod’s death:
 
“In that instance, this was a Superman who had only been Superman for like, a week. He wasn’t Superman as we think of him in the DC Comics...” – David S. Goyer
 
So why is Superman flat out murdering someone in the first ten minutes of the film? I just… That’s… You’ve ruined your own character and your own story. Again, I don’t mind changing one or two things, but give me a good reason or point it out WITHIN the story, I don’t want to have to watch thirty thousand people on YouTube arguing on why a character did something… I don’t want to go to a film to be divided; I want to unite behind an ideal… JUST LIKE THE THEME OF YOUR FIRST MOVIE!
 
Moving on to the Batman, suddenly he’s a murderer? Someone I listened to in a podcast recently said he counted at least fifty five people killed by Batman. That is Batman’s sole thing, what separates him from a common criminal. As Nolan wrote it;
 
“I have one rule”
 
This one rule… Killing. Yeah, that thing that Batman does multiple times in this film. But character perversions aside, I’d like to address how this affects the story. So this Batman is one hundred percent on board with killing people (don’t give me that ‘killing by proxy’ crap, he murdered) yet his motivation for killing Superman is that Superman, while fighting another kryptonian in his first week, maybe purposefully knocked down some building’s and killed some people. But… That shot where Bruce is hugging the little girl because her mum was killed in a building impact is now negated because doubtless many of the people Batman has killed have had young children too.
 
LOOK IN A MIRROR, BATMAN. ALSO, YOU DECIDED NOT TO KILL SUPERMAN BECAUSE YOUR MUM HAD THE SAME NAME AS HIS… I’M SURE ONE OF THE HUNDREDS OF CRIMINALS YOU’VE KILLED HAS HAD A MOTHER NAMED MARTHA!!!
 
So not only has the heart of the character been broken, but it also directly affects the plot of not just this film, but future films. I say future films because I’m now wondering why Batman hasn’t just murdered Joker. This to me just makes no sense and hits me as a classic Snyder “Do it because I think it’d be cool”
 
Just… eughhh. Okay, moving on.
 



2.) Secondly, on people not understanding the movie because they’re not ‘true fans’
 
We didn’t misunderstand the film because we aren’t ‘true fans’ as you call it, we didn’t understand the movie because it was a garbage plot/story/narrative (take your pic). Now I don’t know if this was an editing problem or through fault of the script (my money’s on a bit of both), but the film is a jumbled, disjointed mess.
 
Off the top of my head, I can’t recall a single establishing shot from the entire film. We cut from scene to scene in random close-ups and the like. COME ON! THAT’S FILMMAKING 101! Always make sure the audience knows WHERE and WHEN they are! But instead, I’m sitting here on some random mountain listening to Kevin Costner spout some rubbish about cake. (Also, what was with that, that dialogue was nonsense)
 
What I’m trying to get at is that there is no sense of cohesion to any of the film. In one scene we’re watching Bruce Wayne at a mandingo fight, then suddenly we’re inside the Daily Planet watching Lois Lane investigating some bullet, it wouldn’t be so bad except the film has about the same level of pacing as a child making up stories with his toy Transformers.
 
Every good film, hell even Fantastic Four 2015, have some sense of cohesion, yes in Fant4stic the pacing was garbage, but at least I knew WHERE the pacing was garbage. Batman V Superman consistently breaks its own narrative by cutting both too early on a scene, and to something completely different. This is just not how a film works.
 



3.) That nonsensical comment from the start.
 
Many fans on every kind of platform are clamouring to defend the movie for no other reason than… well… no reason. The guy who wrote that comment I referred to from my review hadn’t even seen the film yet. I know because I tracked down some of his other comments after my review and he said he was looking forward to seeing it despite the haters.
 
We’re not hating on it because it’s DC… WE’RE HATING ON IT BECAUSE IT’S A TERRIBLE FILM. We shouldn’t have to get divided over this, but some people don’t seem to understand. We as a collective, movie-loving audience must not allow ourselves to be complacent with slop. We must rise above those we feel are disrespecting these characters that we’ve all loved and been inspired by as children for the sake of a movie being “cool”.
 
Guess what, if a Marvel film comes out that’s as garbage as this film, it’ll get the same treatment. The internet is not split into DC fans and Marvel fans, I like to believe we’re a people who can unite because we love films, surely The Force Awakens proved that.



So yeah, that’s my two cents. You can love Batman V Superman all you want, but don’t go around telling others that they’re wrong for reasons that don’t even make sense. The characters are all wrong (I won’t even mention Lex Luthor… oops), the film itself is a mess, and people will hate on something if it’s bad. Yes I know I’m making a lot of bold statements here, but I do believe that we should not allow ourselves to be satisfied with something as nonsensical and insulting as this film, especially after we’ve had better stuff done with the characters in the past (referring to Nolan’s The Dark Knight).

 
We should all be on the same side to let the studios know that we are not okay with what they’re doing, only then will they know to change their methods and begin to universally please us. These characters are for everyone, I don’t know a single kid alive that doesn’t love Batman, how are they supposed to look up to him when he’s murdering people left right and centre?
 
Look, I could go on for days about nearly every aspect of this film and why they’re terrible, but I need to wrap this up. If you agree or disagree with any points in this article, please let me know down below and I’ll endeavour to respond. Hope you enjoy my garbled mess of thoughts :)

One last thing I'd like you to think about: If this were any other movie, would anyone be defending it in the ways that these people are?

(Also, if someone could tell me how to do page breaks on this site, I'd love to make this article a bit easier to read... Thanks)

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WYLEEJAY
WYLEEJAY - 3/28/2016, 6:22 PM
Needs more next button.
JGrizzle
JGrizzle - 3/28/2016, 6:28 PM
@WYLEEJAY - haha yeah, couldn't figure out how to do it, would you be able to tell me?
TheLoveDoc
TheLoveDoc - 3/28/2016, 6:26 PM
Rename the article. Needs to be more along the lines of "My opinion on why your opinion is wrong"
kong
kong - 3/28/2016, 7:04 PM
[frick] I'll defend Hitler if I want to. I can defend anything I want.

Superheromoviefan
Superheromoviefan - 3/28/2016, 7:21 PM
@Kong - thank you for proving him right
kong
kong - 3/28/2016, 8:45 PM
@MrSuperheromoviefan - That I can defend anything I want? Don't see that.
Superheromoviefan
Superheromoviefan - 3/28/2016, 9:32 PM
@Kong - if you cant understand that defending something like hitler is wrong than i feel sorry for you
kong
kong - 3/29/2016, 5:21 PM
@MrSuperheromoviefan - While all my morals and ethics totally conflict with Hitler's, If I or anyone else wants to defend hitler or anyone/anything else they can.

People have different opinions than you idiot.

P.S.

If you can't understand that you capitalize the first word of a sentence, you end sentences with periods, you capitalize the letter "I" in reference to yourself, and that there's a difference between "then" and "than", than I feel sorry for you.
Superheromoviefan
Superheromoviefan - 3/29/2016, 5:52 PM
@Kong - english isnt my native languange and if it was i would pay attetion on the grammar in my replies to you.
As for the "everyone has a different opinion" when it goes against the fact its no longer an opinion, just a lie
kong
kong - 3/29/2016, 8:36 PM
@MrSuperheromoviefan - You have a lot to learn.

Question.

What is the "it" you are referring to, and what is the "fact". And an opinion is always an opinion and nothing else. It cannot be a lie because it's inherently a truth to whoever has that opinion. It can be false to someone else but not a lie, unless someone is saying they have one opinion while in actuality they don't believe it.
JGrizzle
JGrizzle - 3/29/2016, 10:11 PM
@Kong - So... I just wanna get part of your argument straight... You're criticizing someone else for not having the 'correct' spelling, essentially saying 'this spelling is wrong, this is a fact'

That's kind've like 'There are problems with this movie, these are facts"...

There are things that are OBJECTIVELY wrong. Such as spelling, or poor movie making

And stop picking on him, he said English wasn't his native language
kong
kong - 3/30/2016, 6:17 PM
@Doom303 - When did I ever say there weren't things objectively wrong with this movie.

When did I even say I liked the film, or that I defend it.

I just say you can't tell someone what to defend and what not to defend, regardless of the situation.
eopnalla
eopnalla - 3/28/2016, 7:17 PM
Just a few things. Who exactly did superman murder within the first ten minutes of this movie? I do remember him pushing a guy through a wall and later was blamed for killing all the people in Africa which the movie even revealed to be false (obviously). If u are upset about superman pushing people through walls refer to grant Morrison's action comics volume 1(new52) just as an example. Pretty sure superman only killed doomsday in this movie even after having a nuke launched at him. Oh and sacrificed his life in the process. As for bat man, you are right about his lack of concern with people's lives. Unfortunately I don't think u gave a good example with the Nolan movies. For instance, in batman begins, when training with Ras, he refuses to be an executioner, but blows up that entire building, killing probably 50-100 some people. And that is only one example. I'm waiting for the day when we do get a batman that doesn't kill and is shown to constantly struggle to maintain that rule. But we haven't got that on cinema yet. Otherwise, you are making some valid points
JGrizzle
JGrizzle - 3/28/2016, 7:25 PM
@eopnalla - That guy at the start holding Lois. Don't tell me Superman didn't murder him... He did. He never once in the film says he has a problem with killing.

As for Begins. That was kind've an accident that the building lit on fire, and they were all highly trained ninjas, they more than had the ability to save themselves.

If you're gonna use the "I'm not gonna kill you, but I don't have to save you"

Ra's put himself in that situation, Bruce was simply letting him be convicted by his own actions
JGrizzle
JGrizzle - 3/28/2016, 7:32 PM
@eopnalla - I'd honestly have a hard time believing Superman didn't murder that man at the start, no one could survive that. It'd be like if Superman pushed someone off the side of a building but the camera never looked down to see the splat
Superheromoviefan
Superheromoviefan - 3/28/2016, 7:19 PM
Finaly someone said it. No doubt there are marvel trolls who hate just because its dc, but most people find it a mess. I believe the studio wanted it to be a set up movie. Same thing happed to iron man 2
JGrizzle
JGrizzle - 3/28/2016, 7:26 PM
@MrSuperheromoviefan - Thanks man, glad you liked it
Mrcool210
Mrcool210 - 3/28/2016, 7:21 PM
"why I think a lot of people’s opinions are wrong."



I'm sorry, If i have good reasons for defending Batman V Superman (Which I believe I do) Then i'll defend it all I want.

JGrizzle
JGrizzle - 3/28/2016, 7:27 PM
@Mrcool210 - You probably should have read the next line where I get more specific. Hoping you understand that was just a hook...
Mrcool210
Mrcool210 - 3/28/2016, 7:33 PM
@Doom303 - I do understand that, caught your first comment while leaving the article, It's just i'm so used to things like that hook on this site I thought it was just a troll article. So I apologize, for the record, I'm fine with people disliking/liking the movie. As long as valid reasons are given and a debate/discussion is allowed. And no name calling. I can see why some people dislike certain elements but its tiring and exshausting to be called a Marvel fanboy for being okay for the changes made to the characters in the film (since they play into a character arc) while also being called a DC fanboy at the same time since I like the movie at all. Takes a lot out of you you know?
JGrizzle
JGrizzle - 3/28/2016, 7:36 PM
@Mrcool210 - Yeah, couldn't agree more. I'll admit this article was partly born from my weariness of people just bashing other's opinions for no real reason at all.
redson
redson - 3/28/2016, 7:35 PM
Is there any mention in the movie that superman killed the terrorist?

Obviously batman mowing down criminals with guns or throwing a car at em' is clear.

But if there's no mention, and it's just him taking a guy through a wall - doesn't mean he couldn't have taken the brunt of the force and the guy has quite a few broken bones.

Not trolling. Just asking.

Besides, every film that made 150mil+
Opening weeKen's has had a 63% or higher with critics. Yet despite the negative reviews giving a 33% to BvS, it still made that and more.

Awesome. Despite its flaws, I still love this film.
JGrizzle
JGrizzle - 3/28/2016, 7:37 PM
@RedSon - Like I said to eopnalla above

I'd honestly have a hard time believing Superman didn't murder that man at the start, no one could survive that. It'd be like if Superman pushed someone off the side of a building but the camera never looked down to see the splat...
ajrmarvel
ajrmarvel - 3/28/2016, 7:43 PM
@RedSon - With a film, you have to be explicit unless you want the audience to think about what happened. I personally took that scene as Superman killing that guy. Even if some people can take it that way, its on Zach Snyder if he didnt mean that context.

As for the box office, this movie had batman, Superman, and wonder woman all on screen for the first time together. Much of this weekend's box office came from presale. This movie would have made this money if it was a long shot of lays potato chips for 2 hours and batman and Superman eating those chips in the end. We can judge it's box office success starting this upcoming weekend.
ajrmarvel
ajrmarvel - 3/28/2016, 7:38 PM
Glad this article was written. Subjectively, you can like whatever you want, but this movie was a mess. Bad pacing, strange cuts, questionable scenes included. Those are all objectivity bad things about this film. On top of that, can anyone honestly tell me this movie was above and beyond what they hoped for? I am not a film maker, but I know I could have wrote a better script than this. The film is just not everything it could be be and definitely not what it should be. Hopefully the DCEU can be salvaged from such a terrible beginning.
redson
redson - 3/28/2016, 7:46 PM
just speculation. superman has done similar actions w/o casualties. he's not always fighting power beings. I believe he held back. but the movie doesn't say either way..so, speculation.
redson
redson - 3/28/2016, 7:52 PM
yeah. and because it had them the movie did so well despite the unwarranted negativity IMO.
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