Zack Snyder On JUSTICE LEAGUE Experience, "Toxic" Fans, Breaking Batman's No Kill Rule, & More

Zack Snyder On JUSTICE LEAGUE Experience, "Toxic" Fans, Breaking Batman's No Kill Rule, & More Zack Snyder On JUSTICE LEAGUE Experience, "Toxic" Fans, Breaking Batman's No Kill Rule, & More

Zack Snyder appeared on the Joe Rogan Experience, and discussed a range of topics, including his experience working on Justice League, and the perception that the majority of his fans are toxic...

By MarkCassidy - Mar 06, 2024 09:03 PM EST
Filed Under: Justice League

Rebel Moon director Zack Snyder was a guest on the latest episode of The Joe Rogan Experience, and the divisive filmmaker discussed a range of topics, including several of his DC-based projects.

Snyder touches on his experiences working on Justice League and Batman V Superman: Dawn of Justice, and how the studio's insistence that he make certain cuts led to his reputation as the "director's cut guy." He also mentions that he found it very difficult to secure a PG-13 rating for BVS because the ratings board simply didn't "like the idea of Batman and Superman fighting."

Speaking of The Dark Knight, Snyder weighs in on the debate surrounding the iconic DC Comics hero's "no kill rule."

"If you don't test the morality of the character, then it's dead. It can't evolve, it can't move, it can only answer questions that doesn't break canon, and that's not the way to treat these legendary characters"

Snyder also delves into the negative perceptions of his fanbase, and while he acknowledges that there is a toxic element, he praises their passion and the fact that they saved lives by raising more than $600,000 for the American Foundation for Suicide Prevention after his daughter, Autumn, took her own life.

You can check out the full video below, and we also have some shorter clips.

JUSTICE LEAGUE Director Zack Snyder Reveals Plan To Restore Superman's Humanity In Scrapped Sequels

JUSTICE LEAGUE Director Zack Snyder Reveals Plan To Restore Superman's "Humanity" In Scrapped Sequels

DC Studios Rumored To Be Planning A JUSTICE LEAGUE INTERNATIONAL Movie
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Itwasme - 3/6/2024, 9:49 PM
Question... how does ignoring the rule act as a means of testing it?
Itwasme - 3/6/2024, 9:50 PM
... and I'm not Uber critical of him breaking it, but this sounds like a weird response.
Highflyer - 3/6/2024, 9:54 PM
@Itwasme - Maybe to see if he can come back from it or still be a hero after falling into the darkness.
Itwasme - 3/6/2024, 9:56 PM
@Highflyer - That could work, but we didn't really see that, nor did they set the precedent that he used to not kill. It wasn't really brought up at all.
TheVisionary25 - 3/6/2024, 10:21 PM
@Itwasme - I swear , I have read that comment a few times and I can’t really make sense of what he’s trying to say

I know I’m tired so that might be why but I feel I can still process what someone is trying to say and I think I get it to an extent but I have no idea what he means by providing answers that don’t break canon…

What canon?…he never really established the canon of the DCEU Batman in the first place.
bcom - 3/6/2024, 10:43 PM
@TheVisionary25 - Nothing Zack says really makes any sense. He starts another sentence before finishing the sentence before it.
HashTagSwagg - 3/7/2024, 12:31 AM
@Itwasme - There was that whole line in BVS about him saying "20 years in Gotham, how many good guys are left how many stayed that way" I always assumed Batman was also including himself among those who had fallen and Alfred's "so falls the house of Wayne" line.
CorndogBurglar - 3/7/2024, 12:37 AM
@Itwasme - Yeah, there's a huge difference between "questioning a character's morality" and just throwing his morals out the window.

If there had been a moment in any of these movies where Batman was faced with a moral conundrum if killing an enemy or letting them live, then I would agree with him. But instead what we got was Batman mowing people down in the streets and seemingly not giving a damn.
HashTagSwagg - 3/7/2024, 12:42 AM
@CorndogBurglar -
CorndogBurglar - 3/7/2024, 12:57 AM
@HashTagSwagg - This scene is exactly the opposite of what I'm talking about. He set out to kill Superman and built an in-depth plan to do that. He had to be convinced to NOT kill Superman. This is the exact opposite of how Batman should be handled.

He should never be setting out with murder on his mind. But if he finds himself in a situation and gives in and kills, that's the moral conundrum I'm talking about.

Batman should never be a killer first, and a life saver only in extreme situations. This is fundamentally not how Batman's character works.

Like, he has to be convinced to spare Superman, yet he's killing regular goons with no qualms whatsoever lol.
HashTagSwagg - 3/7/2024, 1:12 AM
@CorndogBurglar - By the time we see him in BVS (either before Zod did his thing or after) Batman has already snapped, The Martha thing is bullshit and should have been handled better but that is turning point and when he starts on his path of redemption.
lazlodaytona - 3/7/2024, 4:33 AM
@Highflyer - very smart
Origame - 3/7/2024, 4:46 AM
@Itwasme - we objectively did see that. Alfred even admits batman used to be a more moral person in the past prior to the destruction of metropolis.
Splash - 3/7/2024, 7:01 AM
@CorndogBurglar - just don't call yourself a Keaton fan
Itwasme - 3/7/2024, 9:00 AM
@Origame - that's not really specifically talking his no kill rule, just that he used to be not as harsh.

@CorndogBurgler - I think one of the fatal flaws in BvS is the notion that Batman had to kill Supes. If instead of the Martha moment when Batman was standing over Superman, Batman should have just stopped and said something "I don't need to kill you, I just need you to know that you can be beaten by a man."

The point is Batman had already won by the time Martha was said. All he had to do was put Superman in check and he had done that. The idea that this was a duel to the death is kinda silly and in order for it to play out that way they had to make Batman a killer. Had they made it feel to the audience like Batman was going to break his rule to kill Superman and then did this fake out it would have been a significantly better movie.

The moral conflicts are significantly more important than the physical ones. I don't think Snyder ever got that and that's why his movies were always divisive IMO.
Origame - 3/7/2024, 10:12 AM
@Itwasme - dude, you know batman. Of course that's the no kill rule they're referring to.

You complain about them giving us the origin story again, then complain when it is written as if you know he has a no kill rule.
Itwasme - 3/7/2024, 10:34 AM
@Origame - but you have to know Batman and make an assumption that's what they were referring too. You don't actually know that's the case. Snyder doesn't even say that's the case here.

And I'm complaining that Snyder never understood that it's the moral conflicts that are more impactful than the physical one. It's such a juvenile take and it didn't resonate with the audience.
Origame - 3/7/2024, 11:10 AM
@Itwasme - it's called context.

Alfred says he used to be less cruel, we know the only rule batman has historically had was no killing, and we see him killing.

It's all there.

Based on your logic, they have to include the Wayne's dying or specifically mention it for the origin or we can only "make a guess it happened".
Itwasme - 3/7/2024, 11:41 AM
@Origame - that's not strong storytelling if you are not meeting your audience where they are. Most of the GA doesn't know that rule as it's never been in the films. And there's obviously a large percentage of people here who didn't get that context from what was presented so the people who know the comics didn't feel like it was really addressed. You're the only one.
Origame - 3/7/2024, 11:57 AM
@Itwasme - 1) why are you speaking for the general audience that doesn't know much about batman? None of them care about accuracy anyway.

2) most general audience members know the rule, as it was a major plot point of the previous batman franchise.

3) you get enough to understand the context even if you don't get the rule. He flat out kills people here, and he used to be less harsh. What's less harsh than just killing people?
Itwasme - 3/7/2024, 12:19 PM
@Origame - less harsh? Idk... not branding them with before sending them off to jail to knowingly be killed.

Stopping the physical torture would be less harsh. Lol.

Look, we clearly aren't going to agree on this.
Origame - 3/7/2024, 1:17 PM
@Itwasme - 1) the branding was only considered bad because it led to people dying. Meaning the no killing rule.

2) outside of branding, what torture?
Itwasme - 3/7/2024, 1:51 PM
@Origame - the brand is torture. That's like saying, outside of the murders what killing did he do?

You asked how he could be less harsh and that's a pretty basic example, let's not just skip past that.
JonC - 3/7/2024, 2:34 PM
@Itwasme - Characters have 'rules' setting themselves unique from other characters. Not recognizing that is doing a major disservice to the character and the fans.
The rule can be tested but it should always be validated to be true for that character... sometimes to their benefit and sometimes as a loss.
Origame - 3/7/2024, 2:38 PM
@Itwasme - ...we can skip past it, because it's never presented as particularly painful and the whole problem with branding is that it's resulting in people dying.
Itwasme - 3/7/2024, 2:53 PM
@Origame - hate to break it to you, but branding is very painful.
Itwasme - 3/7/2024, 2:58 PM
@JonC - exactly. I personally didn't feel it was very well established. And there were 6 hours(?) of films to cover it. A subtle hint doesn't really make it the case.
Origame - 3/7/2024, 3:03 PM
@Itwasme - hate to break it to you, but we have zero context for how he brands people and he's known for beating criminals unconscious.
CorndogBurglar - 3/10/2024, 4:33 PM
@Splash - I am a Keaton fan! But Keaton didn't write the movie.
CorndogBurglar - 3/10/2024, 4:39 PM
@Itwasme - That would have been a LOT better. But the thi g that bothered me most about that movie is their fight never should have even happened. Like, Batman was obviously itching for a fight. But Superman didn't even try to stop a fight from happening.

He showed up, Batman talked crap, Superman pushed him really hard. And that was it. Like, Superman could have easily just grabbed Batman in a bear hug and been like, "Listen, dude. Lex Luthor sent me to kill you. He's holding my mother hostage. Help me save her and then if you still want to fight, then we can. I won't even put up a defense. But I'm not the villain here. I just want to save my mother."

It would have been that simple. But he didn't even attempt to explain anything.
Itwasme - 3/10/2024, 5:45 PM
@CorndogBurglar - exactly true. It felt really contrived all the way through. In story telling you can have competing motivations for your characters and especially from yourself as the creator. Superman seemed to fight just because the plan was for them to fight. Why not have him act differently and then have him get sucked into it? Like he's trying to avoid Batman, but gets sucked into a fight repeatedly until he realized he needs to beat Batman to go save his mom.
bobevanz - 3/6/2024, 9:50 PM
When two tools collide lol
JFerguson - 3/6/2024, 9:54 PM
Then why can’t he kill a nutcase chronic murderer like the joker?
MyCoolYoung - 3/6/2024, 10:29 PM
@JFerguson - because he don’t want no beef
HashTagSwagg - 3/7/2024, 12:36 AM
@JFerguson - Just a guess but he had the perfect excuse for that one if the rumours were true and Leto was actually once Robin who turned into a try hard Joker who Batman can't put down like the others. The only other excuse is Batman didn't kill until that thing happened to Robin and that made him snap and he's been trying to catch the Joker ever since but he keeps slipping away like what we saw in Suicide squad.
valmic - 3/7/2024, 2:59 AM
@MyCoolYoung - 😂🤣
TheVandalore - 3/7/2024, 4:19 AM
@HashTagSwagg - Id never heard that Robin is Joker rumor but I kinda dig it, since I long since gave up the notion the Snyder verse was DC Proper and view it rather as a Snyder-flavored Elseworld take on DC.
ObserverIO - 3/7/2024, 4:24 AM
@HashTagSwagg - @TheVandalore -

The Jason Todd as Honka Honka Joker rumor is confirmed in The People's Joker this year. Really.
lazlodaytona - 3/7/2024, 5:12 AM
@JFerguson - easy...

lazlodaytona - 3/7/2024, 5:25 AM
@MyCoolYoung -
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