EDITORIAL: Why Marvel's Shared Film Universe May Hurt Their Solo Hero Sequels

EDITORIAL: Why Marvel's Shared Film Universe May Hurt Their Solo Hero Sequels

With many individual heroes coming together for the 2012 superhero blockbuster The Avengers, could this be the end of Marvel's individual superheroes being the only focus of their own movies?

Editorial Opinion
By bleedthefreak - Apr 09, 2011 11:04 AM EST
Filed Under: Marvel Comics



Now don't get me wrong, I too am geeking out in anticipation over The Avengers. But some recent thoughts and concerns after re watching Iron Man 2 lead me to believe it could end the cycle of Marvel's individual superhero movies. Iron Man 2 was met with largely mixed views from critics and fans alike, with it being noted that it did not capture the ground breaking essence of the original.

Some key arguments of FAR less action and too much focus set on other characters worried fans and moviegoers alike. Iron Man 2 seemed to be a sequel that focused less on Iron Man himself, which was the key to success with its superior predecessor.

As the buzz on Iron Man 2 passed, Marvel would go on to focus on their next adventures, Thor & Captain America: The First Avenger, which would all lead up to the multi-hero team up in 2012's The Avengers.

So what was my problem with Iron Man 2? The lack of action? The lack of focus on Tony Stark/Iron Man? No, it was that after setting up Iron Man in the prior movie, they used the characters sequel more as a prequel to The Avengers, who required at least some set up instead throwing the team together in the movie too fast.

But with many set ups and Easter Eggs for The Avengers thrown in, we hardly got a film focusing on Iron Man's solo adventure at all. It seemed Marvel was more concerned with setting up more of The Avengers than giving us a sequel. Sure Thor and Caps first big screen outing will focus on setting them up as their own hero, but do you really think sequels to Thor, Cap, Iron Man 2, and The Avengers wont focus on bringing as many superheroes as possible to set up more movies?

While talking to MTV, Director of the first two Iron Man films, Jon Favreau had this to say regarding Iron Man 3:

"In theory, 'Iron Man 3' is going to be a sequel or continuation of 'Thor,' 'Hulk,' 'Captain America' and 'Avengers,'" he said. "This whole world... I have no idea what it is. I don't think they do either, from conversations I've had with those guys."


Now only weeks later Favreau would walk away from the directors chair for another Iron Man, and I believe Marvel wanting to include other heroes without focusing on Iron Man as much is what creatively separated them. People like to blame Favreau for Iron Man 2's problems, but the lack of focus on Iron Man and his hints on the Blu-Ray commentary that led us to believe Marvel meddled and threw in all the other hero references that over clouded the movies, is why I believe Favreau walked on the threequel.

With the plot for Iron Man 2 basically setting up the Avengers, whose to say the sequels to Marvel's other movies won't be used to set up the big screen adventures of other heroes they have been waiting to introduce.

Now people (myself included) have been hoping for years that Marvel will be making a Doctor Strange movie. But with the use of a whole cinematic shared universe to set up other characters, why wouldn't they include Doctor Strange in another movie to set up just who he is before taking a gamble and throwing a character not well know outside of the fan-boy community.

Now I know some of you are thinking that Thor, who isn't extremely well know outside of our fan-boy group either, is getting his own solo film. But notice that outside of the tiny reference in Iron Man 2, Thor promotions have banked off Iron Man's success by mentioning that it is the same studio. Hell they even threw Iron Man and Hulk in a TV spot for Thor.

So if Iron Man was used to set up Thor and The Avengers, that leaves it to be totally realistic for any other successful superhero movie to set up a lesser known character, diverting some time away from the star of the show.




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Hawksblueyes
Hawksblueyes - 4/9/2011, 11:21 AM
I don't understand why people think that the mentioning of another hero in a CBM takes away from the hero that is the star of the show. If there is a shared universe it stands to reason that every hero in that universe is going to be making news in that setting. Therefore, it stands to reason that they are going to be mentioned. I don't think it takes away from the story at all.

If Iron Man2 was lacking anywhere it was not due to SHIELD, The Black Widow or Nick Fury, it was simply lacking. Realistically, if Fury and SHIELD were beating down Starks door, they wouldn't give a rats ass what he had going on at the time, they would interupt it and he would have to work around them exactly as he did in the film.
bleedthefreak
bleedthefreak - 4/9/2011, 11:28 AM
I meant the whole focusing on setting up the avengers and leaving what was originally intended for the plot wavering in the background. They made sure that everybody knew about what was happening in their next movie before tieing up the loose ends of the plot to the current one in the last few minutes only.
bleedthefreak
bleedthefreak - 4/9/2011, 11:33 AM
Changed the title, forgot I just put movies. It is now Why Marvel's Shared Film Universe May Hurt Their Solo Hero Sequels
Hawksblueyes
Hawksblueyes - 4/9/2011, 11:36 AM
bleed: I don't agree that the plot for the film suffered in order to set up The Avengers. I just think it lacked period. The way they went about setting up The Avengers was as simple as it could possibly get and I don't think anybody was left wondering why Rourk was doing what he was doing. I think that even if they excluded everything Avengers related, the main story would have still been a little bland.
bleedthefreak
bleedthefreak - 4/9/2011, 11:44 AM
I think it wasn't the real story Favs wanted to tell, I think they forced a lot on him by meddling to bring in other characters or give them more screen time. I heard Fury was supposed to play a much smaller role. With that being said I think Marvel will use the ability to throw other heroes where ever they want to set up more movies for other heroes. This crossover thing doesnt just end with the avengers. Thor and Cap 2 will be somewhat used as stepping stones for other movies, taking away from the experince of another Cap or Thor.
SmokinIndo
SmokinIndo - 4/9/2011, 11:47 AM
Iron Man 2 was NOT met with mixed critical reactions. The film holds a 76% RT rating. While not overwhelmingly positive, it it is still a huge success with regards to most superhero films. Hell... that's more than what Watchmen holds, which is a 64% RT rating.
TheSnuggler
TheSnuggler - 4/9/2011, 11:52 AM
Can you post a link to the fan-made Avengers poster?
JackJNapier
JackJNapier - 4/9/2011, 11:52 AM
i don't agree with this at all.
LeeHolland
LeeHolland - 4/9/2011, 11:52 AM
Threw, not through.
bleedthefreak
bleedthefreak - 4/9/2011, 11:53 AM
indoraptor: Iron Man 3 was bashed by a fair amonut of critics and praised by others. RT may have it at a good rating, but many people tore into that movie. Yet some praised it, which is why I said mixed. By the way, I would have called Watchmen mixed reviewed too.
Exiles
Exiles - 4/9/2011, 11:56 AM
So wait what little cameo or a name drop will ruin the movie, I get that Iron Man 2 had its fault but it was still [frick]ing enjoyable. I think people need to stop worrying so much and just bloody relax.
drykillogic22
drykillogic22 - 4/9/2011, 11:57 AM
Hater Article..STFU!
Exiles
Exiles - 4/9/2011, 11:58 AM
And the whole point of Marvel making a studio of there own was so they could get involved with there project, so they have control over it.

and come on the guys just giving his opinion doesn't make him a hater
spiderneil
spiderneil - 4/9/2011, 11:58 AM
I absolutely loved IM2 so I don't see what the problem with that movie was.

there however IS a big problem with marvel movies beyond the avengers, if you have a collective group of heroes with a massive villian to justify that group of heroes then when those seperate heroes make their own movie it is going to seem tame in comparison.

the inverse of that is if the individual hero makes a epic movie the the collective of those heroes (the avengers) has to be bigger, meaning more villians, more characters, more explosions which may harm the story.

the avengers could be opening a massive can of worms for marvel.
CraptainAmerica
CraptainAmerica - 4/9/2011, 12:00 PM
To be honest I don't think it really lacked. I liked the movie. It was a great second instalment. Fair enough they threw SHIELD in at every opportunity but that was in keeping with extending their presence in Iron Man's first outing. Not only that, it also tied in with Tony's closure with his daddy issues. Without Fury etc showing up to shed some light on the situation it would have ended up being Tony coming across a dusty box labelled 'Howard Stark'. Vanko, though underused, was the catalyst for all of these things making their way to the surface. Hammer allowed the Ten Rings thread to stay present...hopefully, in prep for the third instalment!

It may not be the movie Favreau should have got to make and may seem jumbled but, for me, it actually worked perfectly. And this will continue to work throughout the Marvel Cinematic Universe in my opinion
ViperXX79
ViperXX79 - 4/9/2011, 12:00 PM
"but many people tore into that movie. Yet some praised it"

No, some people tore into it yet many praised it.
SentinelofLiberty
SentinelofLiberty - 4/9/2011, 12:00 PM
I think this article makes some valid points. I mean, if Favs himself---who, apologies to RDJ, was at least half the reason IM1 was so good --- thinks it is a cause for concern, it's at least worth talking about.
SmokinIndo
SmokinIndo - 4/9/2011, 12:00 PM
Also, Hawksblueyes is right. The Avengers set-up was minimal at best. In fact, The Incredible Hulk had more Avengers set-up than Iron Man 2. Iron Man 2's crossover references were just cameos or easter eggs. Iron Man 2 had its own plot that moved fine on its own two feet.

@bleedthefreak

And some people tore into Iron Man 1. They also tore into The Dark Knight. That doesn't mean either of those movies had "mixed" reviews. Iron Man 2 holds a fresh rating on RT. To keep things in perspective, a film needs to have a 60% RT rating to be considered "fresh". IM2 has a 76%. I believe that makes it "certified fresh".
Exiles
Exiles - 4/9/2011, 12:04 PM
@spiderneil so all the individual comic book series are tame, it doesn't have to had big villain to be good movie. Go read demon in a bottle one of the best Iron Man story arc Demon in A Bottle, its wasn't about the explosions or a massive fight.

@bleedthefreak I get your worries but Cameo's can be worked in to a story line, I actually hope we get to see a adaption of Demon In a Bottle story line that arch had several cameo's but that didn't take the focus away from Tony Stark. If the cameos are done in a way that helps the story line then I don't see the problem
DarkTalbot13
DarkTalbot13 - 4/9/2011, 12:07 PM
I agree with you. Marvel uses the crossovers to set up other things. It's a good business strategy if you think about it. But, I did'nt think that Iron Man 2 completely pushed Tony aside, and brought in Nick Fury to wink at the audience (no pune) and basically say "guess whats next?" They used him for a story plot point as well, (the trunk) Tony to figure out a new element and fix his problem with the reactor. Sure he was basically there for Avengers, but not totally. I guess I just see the good in this cross polonation idea. I think the rights should be stretched for X-MEN, Spider-Man, FF, DD, etc to show up here and there. Set up other movies, fine. I just don't want them to go out of hand with it, and give every single character a movie. Hawkeye and Black Widow are just fine in The Avengers. And, same with War Machine in Iron Man lore.
spiderneil
spiderneil - 4/9/2011, 12:12 PM
@ exiles

I never said individual marvel movies are tame, I was saying after the avengers further individual movies may SEEM tame by comparison.

take this example; if batman and superman team-up on the big screen and the movie absolutely kicks ass then future individual superman or batman movies will 'SEEM' tame in comparsion. you know it's true.
SmokinIndo
SmokinIndo - 4/9/2011, 12:14 PM
I can think of one HUGE reason why the shared universe is a fantastic idea:

A shared universe means that a character's story never has to end. Most of the time a series starts to burn out after the third installment. Once this happens, the studio will usually lay the series to rest. (unless you're FOX.) I can see Marvel doing this after Iron Man 3. But once that happens, the adventures of Iron Man don't have to end. You've still got the Avengers sequels in place... and it doesn't stop there. Think about the possibility of an Iron Man/Captain America team-up. Marvel's got a virtually endless array of possibilities to play around with for the next 100 years. Iron Man doesn't have to get shelved or get rebooted once his solo series ends.
bleedthefreak
bleedthefreak - 4/9/2011, 12:14 PM
Hey guys, gotta run. Any questions or complaints you REALLY want me to see, hit contact me on my fan page and drop me an email.
Herosave
Herosave - 4/9/2011, 12:20 PM
I can understand the points of this article. For the average movie goer especially I could see how it could water down the main character a little bit. I remember watching Iron Man 2 with my girlfriend and her family, we had already seen it but they hadn't. Well, outside of my girlfriend and myself everyone else really only knew who Iron man was because of the first movie, rather than the comic and my girlfriend's sister especially is NOT a comic book fan in any sense, particularly the movies. Anyway, long story short when we watched the Thor teaser/nod at the end of IM2, everyone except my girlfriend and I thought it was cool. Everyone else was like "...., alright well that was good. *Moves on the next thing*" If anything I think the shared universe will either A. Confuse the heck out of some people who don't or have never picked up a comic OR B. Not make a difference. I think between the two I believe it won't make a real difference because people that don't usually like these sort of movies won't give the time of day anyway. Unlike people who enjoy your general popcorn munchers would at least tune in for the sake of seeing something new. Personally, I like what marvel is doing and I hope they continue to pave the way for more characters to enter into their MCU. Heck if anything, they are paving the way for other comic book movies and other film titles that aren't even based off of comic books.
golden123
golden123 - 4/9/2011, 12:23 PM
@viperXX79: "Some people tore into that movie, yet some praised it, most were on the edge with with it"
jazzman
jazzman - 4/9/2011, 12:30 PM
@bleedthefreak

nice article, if they do Dr Strange movie i rather it be focus on him not too much Avengers reference.

@indoraptor12

using RT as reference is funny even Superman Returns had good rating on that site does not mean its good lol.

@Darkmatter

actually alot of the general public was let down with Iron Man 2. yes the movie made money but it was a major let down to the general public.
JatevinM
JatevinM - 4/9/2011, 12:36 PM
Jazzman speak for yourself as I recall people and quite alot of critics liked it.
bleedthefreak
bleedthefreak - 4/9/2011, 12:40 PM
You guys do realize Rotten Tomatoes is not the only movie reviewing site right? Plus critcs, audiences, and CBM commenters ripped into the movie. Finacially successful doesn't mean critcally too. And just cause one site has it at good doesn't it didn't have the [frick] load of haters we know it did. Clearly everyone of you blacked out and forgot about all the shit others (and some of you yourselves) said about the movie.
setsSister
setsSister - 4/9/2011, 12:40 PM
Hello All,

Personally, I think IM2 was ok - certainly not as good as the first but it was not lacking because of the Avengers set-ups. The battle scenes were way too short and the drunken Iron Man mixing on the turntables was sad.

I think referencing other heroes adds to the story and makes the Marvel Universe more realistic.
SmokinIndo
SmokinIndo - 4/9/2011, 12:43 PM
@jazzman

Except mainstream audiences and fans alike despised Superman Returns. With Iron Man 2, critics liked it, fans liked, and the mainstream audiences liked it. At least there was SOME action in it, as opposed to NONE is Superman Returns. And the studio didn't give Tony Stark a kid.

@bleedthefreak

You do realize that Rotten Tomatoes takes all of the professional reviews off the internet and finalizes them into one aggregate score, right? It's one of the best references you can use in determining a movie's overall quality.
jazzman
jazzman - 4/9/2011, 12:49 PM
@bleedthefreak

well said some people are riding on Rotten Tomatoes d!ck too hard.

@Darkmatter + indoraptor12

actually alot of people on this site and people i know said Iron Man 2 was weaker compare to the first Iron Man.

so what it made $650 million worldwide even Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen $836+ million was that a good movie LOL.

the only people I ever hear b!tch about it are some fanboys on this site.

first of these fanboys are point out a opinion its not b!tching its their own opinion.

@JatevinM - "alot of critics liked it"

really David Edwards of Mirror.co.uk review "Iron Man 2: World’s first review - ‘mind-numbingly dull, chaotic and unwatchable’"

hollywoodreporter review "Well, that didn't take long. Everything fun and terrific about "Iron Man," a mere two years ago, has vanished with its sequel."

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/review/iron-man-2-film-review-29527

empireonline.com review - "Rourke and Rockwell make satisfying, complementary villains, while Downey Jr. delivers again. Shame this sequel feels inessential, over-busy and a little, well, mechanical. Nothing they can’t put right for Iron Man 3."

http://www.empireonline.com/reviews/reviewcomplete.asp?FID=135908

film4.com review - "It's disappointing, then, that Iron Man 2 fails to live up to its predecessor's wave of joyous, un-ironic exuberance. The hollow feeling to the whole thing is particularly odd given how right so many of the individual elements feel in and of themselves."
marckos
marckos - 4/9/2011, 12:52 PM
can we have a civil war or a
secret war before avengers?
ckirk8
ckirk8 - 4/9/2011, 12:53 PM
Yeah, I understand your concern, but I don't think we'll need to worry though. Shane Black recently stated in an interview that after the Avengers, the plan is to go back to self-contained single-character stories.

Here's the link: http://www.aintitcool.com/node/48768
SmokinIndo
SmokinIndo - 4/9/2011, 12:54 PM
Whether or not Iron Man 2 was a terrible movie is completely besides the point. Even if it was as bad as Jonah Hex, it wasn't because of all the Avengers references. I feel like people are using that as a scapegoat for the bigger problems of Iron Man 2. I, for one, thought that the script was weak and a lot of the characters weren't fleshed out enough. Some of the characters that were likeable in the first movie weren't as likeable in the second because of the way they were written.

As far as the story goes, it stood tall on its two feet. All these people who are saying that the Avengers set-up took away from the story need to get their heads examined.
TayDee
TayDee - 4/9/2011, 12:56 PM
The avengers wont affect solo heroes...they might not do as well financially but as long as the story is good everything will be alright
MovieMann
MovieMann - 4/9/2011, 12:59 PM
This is one reason why Christopher Nolan's batman movies are so succesful because he treats them like actual films.
All of the Comic book people want all of these movies to be connected just like their precious comics but they have no real idea about quality movies, they only care about seeing their comic book dreams play out in movies. Christopher Nolan treats batman like a real filmmaker should. If Alfred Hitchcock or Stanley Kubrick were alive today and decided to make a CBM they definitely wouldn't want make stupid references and cameos just to tie their movie in with a huge franchise.
jazzman
jazzman - 4/9/2011, 1:00 PM
@MovieMann

nice view point

@indoraptor12

not comparing it to Jonah Hex that was a total mess of a movie. i dont base everything on Rotten Tomatoes theirs so much other site with critics giving their own viewpoint also i even like reading Slashfilm reviews.

@Darkmatter

actually never said it was dissappointing CBM it was weaker and i did feel they try too hard to force some elements of the Avengers in Iron Man 2. i like it how they did it Iron Man 1.
MatioShack
MatioShack - 4/9/2011, 1:01 PM
I don't have a problem with using a hero franchise to introduce another hero if it makes sense within the context of the main story and keeps close to comics continuity. For example, if they wanted to do a Namor movie they could set him up as the villain in the planned Fantastic Four reboot. If they do it right and make him relatable and make his motives understandable they could bring him around by the end of that movie and boom, another hero. Not too far off from the comics. Black Widow (already established) could conceivably show up in a Daredevil reboot, Doc Strange in a Ghost Rider (if they had the rights to Ghost Rider), etc.
UmpaLoompa
UmpaLoompa - 4/9/2011, 1:01 PM
Iron Man 2 sucked and you all know it. The first was fantastic and the second didn't come close to what it should have been. As for the article, it's a valid argument and certainly a possibility, though I don't necessarily agree with it.
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