Why Source Material Matters

Why Source Material Matters

What the death of an actor who portrayed an iconic legend can teach Hollywood about sticking to the source material when making comic book movies. From costumes to character.

Editorial Opinion
By JohnnyWalker - Apr 04, 2015 07:04 AM EST
Filed Under: Comics

The world mourned the passing of Leonard Nimoy on February 27th, 2015.

Let me emphasize that; the world mourned the passing of Leonard Nimoy.

Why was that? 

After all, his largest contribution to society was as an actor, and at that, an actor known largely for only playing one character.  Even in a world overly obsessed with celebrities, his death seemed to hit a collective nerve.

To put that in perspective, the world will probably not collectively pass the mourning of the actor who played Cousin Oliver on The Brady Bunch.

No offense to whatever his name is; I’m sure he’s a terrific man whose friends and family love him for whom he is.

No.  The world mourned Leonard Nimoy because he was associated with the character of Spock for roughly forty-six years…and admittedly, some lines were blurred.  Nimoy infamously authored a book titled I Am Not Spock only to author another book years later proclaiming Well, Yeah, I Am Spock.*

*Not the actual title.

Most of the world did not know Leonard Nimoy personally, in other words.  They did not know the man.  They could not call him friend.  It wasn’t his death they necessarily mourned as much as the fact that he would never portray Spock again, and because his portrayal of that character had brought so much joy to them.  Nimoy made Spock real to many people.

There was an emotional investment by a large part of the world in the character of Spock...and that's ultimately want any writer wants from their fans.  That connection.  Star Trek (The Original Series) has a somewhat unique history in the annals of entertainment history.  It was a television show that was always on the verge of cancellation, and only made it three years before it finally was.  Then it found a new life in the syndication market, kept alive by that and the fans that began holding conventions expressing their love for the show.  That lead to a brief animated series before it was resurrected on the big screen, spawning a movie franchise that ultimately also led to the birth of four new television shows, as well as countless novels and comic books.

Generations now have grown up with Star Trek.  Although TOS was well over before I was even born, I was thirteen when The Next Generation premiered; I was twenty when it ended.  Through all the trials and tribulations of high school and into my early adult life, those characters were surrogate friends and family that were there mayhap when things weren’t going smashingly well with my real life friends and family.  I can still remember rushing home after working a third shift job to watch the series finale I had taped to say goodbye to those old friends.  When the Borg came back in First Contact to bedevil the Enterprise crew again, I understood Picard’s rage and pain.  After all, I had watched the Borg’s effect on him over the course of six years.   I had watched him cry to his brother in a pool of mud over it. 

Much like I had grown up with TNG, people had the character of Spock in their lives for decades

What does this have to do with comic book movies, you might be asking this far in?

As comic book fans, we all have also grown up with these characters.  Come to know them.  Come to care about them.  Come to be protective of them as if they were our own.  Writers may (understandably) get upset when comic book fans take umbrage at a storyline or a radical change in the original concept of a character; yet at the same time, writers also always have to keep in mind that without the fans, they wouldn’t have a job.  It's a symbiotic relationship.

This, above all else, is why the majority of the comic book fan community goes berserk when filmmakers attempt to change them from what we’ve grown up reading for most of our lives. 

What if, for instance, when they had made Star Trek:  The Motion Picture, they’d decided to change Spock's appearance to him having red skin, a Mohawk, and round ears?  Even if they had nailed the essence of the character, how would the Star Trek fan base have reacted?  He may have acted like Spock, but he wouldn’t have looked like Spock.

But let’s take it the other way.  What if Spock had still looked like the Spock of TOS, but the character was written to act nothing like it was established in TOS?  What if he was…well, unfortunately much like Zachary Quinto’s Spock in the reboot?

Because that’s an interesting conundrum, now.  We once again have Kirk and Spock on the big screen…and although I’ve found the films watchable (the first more than the second), I could care less about them.  They’re a Kirk and Spock, but they’re not the Kirk and Spock, no matter how hard they try to spin the alternate timeline to explain the many differences (like Spock and Uhura bumping Tribbles).  I haven’t grown up with these versions of them.  I don’t have any emotional attachment to them—nor are they well written enough for me to form them even within the confines of the movie.  When Spock dies in The Wrath of Khan, I still get tears in my eyes (even knowing Spock’s death was ultimately undone).  When Kirk dies in Star Trek into Darkness, I distinctly remember looking at my friend and asking him how long it would be until they figured out Khan’s blood would save him.

More so, I know that—at most—these versions may do one more movie and then there’ll be the inevitable reboot or just an end to the new universe.  I doubt Pine and Quinto will be interested in doing Star Trek movies into their golden years like Shatner and Nimoy were (because unlike most of the TOS movie cast, they all have healthy acting careers outside Star Trek).   They could have left Kirk dead at the end of STID and I would have shrugged. 

This is the problem with comic book movies that put characters on screen that don’t capture that core essence of what we’ve come to know and love, be it aesthetically or their core character.  Which is unfortunate because these filmmakers already have a guaranteed fan base going in, unlike films not based on a previous written work (i.e., original material, which is far and few these days as it is in the age of reboots and remakes).  Original films sometimes have to spend an inordinate amount of time getting you to come to care about that character(s); with comic book movies, most of the viewers going in already do.

And I’m not talking literal translations of either characters or storylines; Marvel has done its fair share of changing things up.  So has Fox and Sony.  I’ve read the…debates…in the comments and personally I don’t care which studio makes the film as long as it’s a good film (although then we miss out on shared universes depending on legal wrangling).   The best retort I can give to that is the example of the Spider-Man animated series from the 90’s and the more recent Spectacular Spider-Man animated series; they tried different things (Hobgoblin came before Green Goblin in the former,  for instance) yet at their hearts, the essence of the characters were the same.   I recognized them as the characters I grew up reading about—and in that vein, I don’t want to see storylines that are just literal adaptions of comic storylines, either.

Now, take Nicholas Hammond in the ill-fated live-action Spider-Man on CBS in the 70’s.  His Peter Parker never suffered the death of Uncle Ben; Aunt May disappeared after the pilot; his Spider-Man didn’t make jokes…even given the obvious special effects limitations of the time, there just wasn’t much about him or his universe that truly resembled the character from the comics.  Even the Spider-Man costume that was worn on The Electric Company seemed more authentic than the one on the CBS show.

What emotional investment are we supposed to have in these characters if we can’t relate to them in that aspect?  Especially in this age of (at best) trilogy and then inevitable reboot?  Or one crappy movie and then a reboot?  Why should I go see the upcoming Fantastic Four—based allegedly largely on the Ultimate version—when they vaguely resemble the Fantastic Four I grew up with?  At this rate I might as well just sit back and wait for the next inevitable reboot—whether it be after this film fails or it succeeds and they do it after a trilogy—and hope it’s based on Kirby and Lee’s version (and set in the 60’s...one can hope).  Why should I care about this version and—most importantly to Hollywood—spend my hard earned money on it?

Of course, I realize the argument can be made that by now, many current comic book fans have grown up on the Ultimate version of these characters instead of the 616 versions.

I accept that and counter it with this:   I grew up watching Johnny Carson, and now we have Jimmy Kimmel and Jimmy Fallon.  It’s the difference between prime rib and bologna, son.

However, that’s an opinion, and ultimately, you can’t please everybody no matter what direction you go.  But then the risk by the filmmakers is alienating one fan base over another; is the Ultimate universe more popular and well-known than the 616 universe?  I would say no since the 616 has been around longer—even non-comic fans have a passing knowledge of the 616 universe characters.

There’s also another issue.  Fatigue.

My old man was never a comic book reader, but having a son who did, he came to know the characters by osmosis.  Whenever I buy a comic book movie on DVD, I give it to him to watch.  We actually went to see Raimi’s first Spider-Man together (being the character he knew best) and he enjoyed it, and watched the other two in that series when I gave it to him.

When The Amazing Spider-Man came out and I gave it to him to watch, he got this weird look on his face and said “What happened to the other guy?”

“They rebooted it.”

“’Rebooted it?  Like a computer?’”

“Well...”

He had no interest in watching it.  To him, he’d already watched three movies about Spider-Man.  He wasn’t going to start all over again with a new version and sit through another origin story and all that.  Hell, my old man doesn’t watch the same movie twice as it is—you’re not going to pull him into endless rehashes of the same thing over and over again.

For that matter, even my wife who is not a comic book fan, but who has (albeit begrudgingly) sat with me through most comic book movies, refused to go see The Amazing Spider-Man for much the same reason. 

I’m getting sick of reboots/remakes and I like comic books—do these filmmakers really think the general movie going public is going to keep going back to that same well? I hate to break it to them—that well is already starting to run dry.  I think Amazing Spider-Man 2 is a prime enough example of that.  The only saving grace of that movie was they finally got the costume right from the unfinished one made by Spalding in the first one; I'm convinced now that it's impossible for Hollywood to get the Green Goblin right.  There’s a finite amount of times they can try to bring these characters to the big screen—and to get it right—before people just stop coming to the rodeo. 

And maybe for younger readers, it’s hard to understand because you’ve grown up in what has really been a glorious age of comic book movies the past fifteen years or so—and by glorious, I mean the fact that they were made.   I grew up in the 80s.  The best comic book movie back then until Batman came out was still a toss-up between Superman and Superman II, both of which were technically made in the 70’s.  You can’t imagine how much we as kids pined back then for not only a comic book movie, but a good one.  We were stuck watching reruns of live-action Spider-Man, Adam West Batman, The Incredible Hulk (good show for its time, but not the comic book Hulk), Wonder Woman, those awful Captain America TV movies, stuff like Misfits of Science, Manimal, Automan…even the cartoons were terrible.  Spider-Man and His Amazing Friends was cringe worthy even as a kid.

THE DOG!  WHY WAS THERE A FREAKING DOG!

It’s not just enough that they make the movies anymore and slap names on characters that are nothing like their comic counterparts.  Especially now that these franchises are entering their second or even third attempts.  I used to religiously go see every comic book movie that came out in the theater; The Dark Knight Rises, Man of Steel, Green Lantern, Thor 2, Amazing Spider-Man 2, Days of Future Past, and Guardians of the Galaxy I all waited until they came on DVD or streaming (and some were rentals, not purchases) to watch.  The only two I regret not going to see are DOFP and GOTG; I liked both of them immensely.  The rest to me weren’t worth the $12 or so I would have spent…and I’m a guy who has disposable income.  Not always the case with younger fans.

All we ask is that the filmmakers make the characters recognizable and respect their roots.  Fantastic Four doesn’t have to be dark and gritty and Interstellar.  Superman doesn’t have to be a nomad who can’t take any joy in the fact that he’s…well…Superman.  Peter Parker doesn’t have to be constantly on the verge of crying over Mary Jane (one of my beefs with the Raimi films). 

These characters have been around longer than most of us have been alive and will probably be around long after most of us are dead.  They don’t need to be reimagined or have the director's trademark or "vision" thrust upon them.  Respect the source material and the money will roll in like it came off a printing press.
 
Flame On in the comments.
 
 
 

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01928401
01928401 - 4/4/2015, 8:49 AM
No offense, because this seems like you put a lot of thought into this, but this is reallllllly long. And would probably be more well-received with some pictures.
Cruel
Cruel - 4/4/2015, 8:54 AM
I just finished reading it.
I've got a migraine now
I don't even now where to start, I think I should go for a walk.

01928401
01928401 - 4/4/2015, 8:57 AM
In essence, nothing should change because the original is the best and any change takes away from the catharsis? I disagree wholeheartedly.
Cruel
Cruel - 4/4/2015, 9:01 AM
Try actually reading some comics.
The triumph of comics on the front of other media is being able to reinvent itself while still keeping to the fundamental core of the character.
I swear you kids nowadays...


tonytony
tonytony - 4/4/2015, 9:06 AM
Hey thread poster, i got news for you these characters change every so often, the original batman had a gun! yeah thats right a gun! That changed.

The original atom couldnt shrink but they changed him too and that did so well that marvel took notice and launched ant man. Point is that these characters constantly get updated to be more plausible for different generations.

I personally grew up on the next generation and to me thats my ideal star trek but it didnt stop me from enjoying the movies or the recent films too. Stop being so traditional, change is good and is used to keep things fresh, changes that enhance the character are kept and become part of its folklore case in point superman flying or batman not carrying a gun anymore.

tonytony
tonytony - 4/4/2015, 9:10 AM
@ciaguy, great vid helps to show exactly my point.
01928401
01928401 - 4/4/2015, 9:20 AM
@AlexanderLykins
Some "bad" changes are better than 80 years of the exact same stuff
Cruel
Cruel - 4/4/2015, 9:22 AM
@AlexanderLykins

No one said it was.
No dogmatic belief is inherently good but not all mediums are the same and they don't translate all unto one another.

Fox, Marvel,DC,Sony... have all made choices that I personally don't agree with but I understand why they did it and I want every person that touches these properties to bring something new to them that's the point of comics.
As long as the core is still there.

Now you can say you don't agree with a change or idea but to say it's wrong or not respectful to the comics.

To that I ask which comics?
Which issue?
This industry as been going soon enough for almost a century.
DrKinsolving
DrKinsolving - 4/4/2015, 9:38 AM
This article had some good concepts, I think, but the delivery was all wrong.

DrKinsolving
DrKinsolving - 4/4/2015, 9:44 AM
@CIAGuy

Your requiring exact issues of a comic book to back up why characters are missrepresented?

Since you read comics, you can understand that it's not hard to tell why the X-Men, Wolverine, Cyclops, Rogue are different from the comics in essence and personality

Not story, it's a different medium so the story should be adapted but the essence of the characters
Cruel
Cruel - 4/4/2015, 9:48 AM
@DrKingsolving
Not trying to be rude but I have no idea what you're asking or implying.
WYLEEJAY
WYLEEJAY - 4/4/2015, 9:53 AM
I read this whole damn thing. And you know why I'm mad? Cause you never bothered to tell me what is really important. The question on my mind.......your username.......Blue label? Get your priorities in order...
DrKinsolving
DrKinsolving - 4/4/2015, 9:53 AM
"Now you can say you don't agree with a change or idea but to say it's wrong or not respectful to the comics.

To that I ask which comics?
Which issue?"

Not trying to be rude either, ^^ that's what you wrote.... It sounded pretty straight forward

So, I was saying that it's obvious how characters like Cyclops, Rogue, Wolverine, etc, have NOT been respectful to the comics or to the essence of the characters, an exact issue # isn't required
DrKinsolving
DrKinsolving - 4/4/2015, 9:56 AM
@CIAGuy
Baka
Baka - 4/4/2015, 10:00 AM
I understand the message of your article that you want to see these characters come to the screen how you've grown up with their stories and personalities but i think you got a bit muddled/didnt execute your points aswell as you could have.
Baka
Baka - 4/4/2015, 10:04 AM
BTW Charlie Cox And Vincent D'onofrio are doing reddit AMA today
Khanlark
Khanlark - 4/4/2015, 10:08 AM
Are you complaining about reboots or what?
Anyway, reboots/reimaginings have been around since Shakespeare's time. Honestly, it's an old argument, that's had its time in the sun.
Cruel
Cruel - 4/4/2015, 10:17 AM
@Drkingsolving
"obvious how characters like Cyclops, Rogue, Wolverine, etc, have NOT been respectful to the comics or to the essence of the characters, an exact issue # isn't required"

To that I say that I don't agree with you.
I think they did a fantastic job with Wolverine with what they had, I'm not the biggest X-men movie fan up until The Wolverine, FC and DOFP but people seem to forget that Xmen was made on a shoestring budget for a CBM of that scale (75 million) and due to the marketability and popularity of the characters it had to be PG-13 if they expected any profit.
Wolverine got the CORE right, Cyclops and Rogue didn't.

For example the MCU Thor is not my ideal Thor but a lot of people could bring up the fact that he's more similar to the Ultimate Thor and that's the Thor they like, more power to them.


There's nigh infinite interpretations of these characters and material to pull from.
DrKinsolving
DrKinsolving - 4/4/2015, 10:24 AM
@CIAGuy

Gotcha, at least you agree about Cyclops and Rogue....

And yeah, there are a lot of different opinions about Wolverine's interpretation....

First Class and DOFP were cool, I wasn't a big fan of The Wolverine, definitely looking forward to Apocalypse and Deadpool
MuphrysLaw
MuphrysLaw - 4/4/2015, 12:32 PM
Most of these characters originated over 50 years ago. Fans don't want to be fed the same thing for half a century and creators don't want to keep making the same thing over and over again. As long as they tell good stories and don't completely shit on source material I don't really care what they do.
MuphrysLaw
MuphrysLaw - 4/4/2015, 1:11 PM
Also: RDJ's portrayal of Tony Stark is fairly different from how he acts in comics and I'd say he's one of the most iconic CBM characters of all time.
RextheKing
RextheKing - 4/4/2015, 5:25 PM
I see your points, except for the reboot part. More and more people are being born everyday, and more people are starting to watch CBMs, and these reboots are as much for them as it is for us,and of course the greed of the studios making them. Say TASM never happened, in 30 years should cbms fans be forced to watch a Spider-Man trilogy that started in 2002 and ended in 2006 because fans of the movies then thought the character doesn't have to be reimagened? If you want to argue about the time between reboots and remakes, that's another thing, but there is nothing wrong with them.

Even though I can see where you are coming from with your other points, I can't say I agree with you... completely
DrKinsolving
DrKinsolving - 4/4/2015, 6:49 PM
Also, speaking of Star Trek....

Haha, this is really happening

Osborn
Osborn - 4/5/2015, 3:32 AM
How many times did authors reinvent a character in comics and everyone was like "okay it's as good, maybe even better than the original" Frank Miller's Dark Knight anyone? The original Ultimate Spider-Man Run?
I really don't want to live in a world were those characters are set in stone and never evolve. Movies aren't the same media than comics, even the average moviegoer is not the average Comicbookreader. What they do with the movie is triying to make the character relevant with the time and place the movie came out.
The only difference with a movie everyone gonna hate or everyone gonna love is about... how good it is, I know people who bitch over GOTG because it's not like the source material but... do we really care? The movie was fun!
It's a hit and miss business but no good movie came out of blind faithfulness to the source material, Ironman was successfull because of RDJ and it's a very inaccurate portrayal of the original Tony Stark but people don't care.
The favorite cbm fan characters (let's say... Heath Ledger's Joker or Hugh Jackman's Wolverine) are so far away of their comics counterpart I don't even know why there is even an argument about faithfulness in comicbook movies, movies are note comics period.
528491
528491 - 4/5/2015, 2:52 PM
An interesting article though I have to admit you lost me with your thesis about half way through.

Like I get that the death of Leonard Nimoy had particular cultural resonance because he had played a singular beloved Sci-fi character for 50-odd years, but I don't entirely buy your connection between that and a movie changing the backstory, appearance or personality of a beloved comic-book character.

Granted I think those properties are important, I'm just not convinced by your argument in getting to that conclusion. As some people have suggested maybe use some pictures or subheadings to break up your key points and provide better focus to your overall argument which gets a little bit muddled towards the end.
TimDrakeRR
TimDrakeRR - 4/6/2015, 2:42 AM
I'd like to say I understand what you're saying. And I also want to add to the commenters that you don't need a reboot to evolve characters. Unlike DC who reboots every time the sun rises Marvel when they in fact do reboot only does soft reboots. And as far as movies we can be stuck in the same universe for as long as we need to. You don't need to reboot to evolve a character or his universe. The beginning of Marvel Stories were very simplistic and I daresay snore fest... the same with DC. What evolved these books was that they kept pushing through time and the characters changed with experience. Yes the original Atom could not shrink. However.... That's not exactly rebooting it when they're technically two different characters. Ray Palmer was never a member of the Justice Society. A good writer knows how to update and evolve and have it be part of a storyline. Johnny Storm used to be a brat. Still is sometimes but slowly he matured the more he learned about the "Real World:616" (Show hopefully never coming to MTV).

Between Earth-2 (Original Golden Age) Superman and Earth-1/New-Earth/Prime-Earth Superman Three freaking versions of Superboy and Mon-el. And the confusing mess that is the multi-verse if you're not into the Multiverse I don't think I can complain. If you're complaining about Man of Steel the only error they made was Kal-el snapping Zodds neck. That was the one big no no in that snore fest. You'd Expect Superboy Prime to do some stuff like that (not my favorite interpretation at that) but not Superman. Movie Creators often pull from a large well of the comic multiverse to make a unique character.

And many didn't like Iron Man 3 but I actually did like it. It wasn't for the characters all. I could care less what they did with Mandarin save for bastardizing him. But if you actually sit and watch the movie and don't care about how much action is in the movie it was the first time they actually truly focused on Tony Stark as the Man not the Iron Man. They showed he wasn't all fun and games and that he can be shaken. For the life of me I never understood why Comic Book 616 Tony never got the repulsor taken out of his chest so he could join us non cyborgs. Because with todays medical technology its possible to fix what's going on in his chest. The shrapnel wouldn't kill him if he just got the surgery but then thats comic book logic.

Rarely do comics touch on deep subjects. Green Lantern: Anatomy of a Hate Crime, Identity Crisis, Crisis of Conscience, Marvels, Another Nail. I might be a comic book fan but stories such as those leave a mark on me as a person because these heroes aren't portrayed as perfect. Then we have a multiverse with evil versions of the Justice League and Justice Society. Marvels Cancerverse with evil versions of the Avengers. I may not care for the trek reboot myself or the Dark Knight Series but that is my opinion. Perhaps you should stop watching these things you claim to hate and don't even pay attention to the advertisements. If you hold a gripe about Spider-Man's trilogy being rebooted why even get Amazing Spider-man. It seems any adaptation of Spider-Man isn't in your favor so just don't watch. Not going to see a specific movie gives Hollywood a message.

But for pete sake let those who enjoy watching Christian Bale mumble his way through a movie like a certain character from Dick Tracy enjoy his Batman film. I have no room to judge Bale as Batman because I enjoyed the early Rocky films. In truth there's no wrong or right answer to the multiverse and its just there. I mean you even say you can't please everybody but go on to pretty much say it should be your way. Truth is they're not our properties to decide what they should be like. The respect doesn't necessarily have to be there.

They could make Starfire a hoe dancing on a table and Dick Grayson played by Gilbert Godfrey and I'd see it just to see a half naked female Superhero.... unless she was played by Rosie Odonelle... then I'm asking for my money back and suing them for going blind.
JustAnotherGuy
JustAnotherGuy - 4/8/2015, 4:05 PM
Man, that Superman short always gives me the chills.
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