Simon Kinberg Reflects On How To Properly Tell The DARK PHOENIX Saga For Film Or Television

Simon Kinberg Reflects On How To Properly Tell The DARK PHOENIX Saga For Film Or Television

DARK PHOENIX Star Jessica Chastain Hopes To Play A More Established Comic Book Villain Next Time
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DARK PHOENIX Star Jessica Chastain Hopes To Play A More Established Comic Book Villain Next Time

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WakandanQueen - 6/25/2019, 9:37 AM

GhostDog - 6/25/2019, 9:39 AM
There's a way around her looking like Cap Marvel. I will say they don't look that similar imo, as Carol is bursting with cosmic energy while Jean is bursting with psychic flames.

Put more emphasis on the fact that Jean is emanating flames and there's no issue
storyteller - 6/25/2019, 10:22 AM
@BlackBeltJones - The problem that that distinction is that there isn't one. I've never seen what psychic fire or cosmic energy looks like. I've seen what rain looks like and what fire looks like.

Captain Marvel in the MCU looks like she's on fire. So saying Jean needs to look more like fire doesn't help. I think in this case they need to look at fiction depictions of energy. The fire could look like that from a distance but close up it could have a different texture and weight. Maybe it looks more like ocean waves crashing against the shore with the texture of sand/dirt.

CGI has gotten really good at making fire that when everything looks like fire, nothing looks unique.
GhostDog - 6/25/2019, 10:41 AM
@storyteller - I think the distinction could be made. The ocean waves thing you mention, go with that but with fire. As much as you can.

Then again...

I thought Hellboy did a fine job with it
Spock0Clock - 6/25/2019, 11:56 AM
@storyteller - (While you're certainly not wrong in the broad strokes of your argument: a lot of CG energy and particle effects are hard to parse...) Captain Marvel's energy very specifically looks like plasma in magnetic fields.

And there are little quirks like the power lines frying out when she flew over them that make her distinct.

And Jean's powers were depicted as effectively pink fire (which I think was totally fine, for the record). But a lot of these particle systems are built around the same computer architecture, so it's very easy to get effects that are very samey.

The X-2 Nightcrawler bamfing is a good example. While it was a very good effect for the time, it was ultimately a very generic effect compared to the actual logic of the ability. When he teleported, his body essentially blended into the smoke, and the smoke disappeared after a split second. How much more distinct would he look if the smoke was more like a pocket of air that traveled with him and lingered a bit afterward, like the smell supposedly does. (That's not to shit on X-2, either. It was remarkable for its time and still looks cool.)

I thought the one saving grace of Dark Phoenix was that the effects (for the first time in a long time for this franchise) actually looked half decent. Granted, they were relatively few and I was watching a cam-rip, but still from what I could tell it looked good.
Origame - 6/25/2019, 12:12 PM
@BlackBeltJones - but in hellboy liz is pyrokinetic. So it was literally fire. Here its not supposed to be fire but psychic energy that looks like fire.
GhostDog - 6/25/2019, 12:22 PM
@Origame - "psychic energy that looks like fire."

If they have to lean into the "looks like fire part" to make the distinction then so be it imo. As a kid reading it, I understood it was psychic energy but the fact that it looked basically the same as fire was cool to me.
Origame - 6/25/2019, 12:26 PM
@BlackBeltJones - idk, part of the fun of adapting these is giving them a unique spin that makes sense. Like captain americas costume going from spandex to a colored military outfit. And we've seen fire surrounding people so many times before.
Nightwing1015 - 6/25/2019, 9:40 AM
I actually thought the film was decent. There've been worse X-Men films. But I'm not familiar with the comic storyline so maybe I'm not judging it the same way others on here are.
TRexx21 - 6/25/2019, 10:06 AM
@Nightwing1015 - It really wasn't that bad, definitely could've been better and more comic accurate, but overall I was surprisingly pleased with the movie. Certainly wasn't the worst one.
L0RDbuckethead - 6/25/2019, 9:41 AM
Looks like Captain Marvel? Nah.

To me, Jean Grey looks more like this:

Feralwookiee - 6/25/2019, 9:50 AM
@L0RDbuckethead - Don't insult dumpster fires like that! 😁
Oberlin4Prez - 6/25/2019, 9:41 AM
Both movies sucked. One just happens to belong to a far more successful franchise.
WakandanQueen - 6/25/2019, 9:43 AM
@Oberlin4Prez - "One just happens to belong to a far more successful franchise."
It also happened to be well liked.
Oberlin4Prez - 6/25/2019, 9:47 AM
@WakandanQueen - there are a plethora of movies that are "well liked", it doesn't make them good or ground breaking.
Oberlin4Prez - 6/25/2019, 10:01 AM
@WakandanQueen - Oh, I'm not doubting Captain Marvel had a higher likeability factor. But I'm also not denying the overall success of the MCU as a brand and the fact that Kevin Feoge lied when he said that Captain Marvel was a key component to Endgame as two key factors in it's success either. The truth of the matter is, if Captain Marvel wasn't apart of the MCU as it stands today, and if Kevin Feige hadn't made it seem as if missing the movie meant missing out on some key element for Endgame, I do not believe it would have been anywhere near as successful as it was. But hey, that's the game they played and they won. I know I payed to see it, but it garnered no relevant information about what would take place in Endgame. And while I "liked" the movie well enough, it's certainly not on the same level of other MCU films like Iron Man, Captain America 2&3, GOTG, and Ragnarok.
Kman - 6/25/2019, 10:05 AM
@Oberlin4Prez - how can you '"like" the movie well enough' and also say it sucked?
SuperManes - 6/25/2019, 10:05 AM
@Oberlin4Prez -
TRexx21 - 6/25/2019, 10:07 AM
@Oberlin4Prez - So who's the judge of what makes a movie "good or ground breaking" if it's NOT the audience??
Oberlin4Prez - 6/25/2019, 10:09 AM
@Kman - I'm basing it's suckage on the fact that it did nothing new or original, and for all the hype (positive or negative) surrounding the movie, it's just meh, and in the internet world "meh" means it's the worst thing ever. But I didn't hate it. I didn't hate Dark Phoenix either, I just found them both tedious and by the numbers. Captain Marvel maybe did it a little bit better.
WakandanQueen - 6/25/2019, 10:11 AM
@Oberlin4Prez - Part of the point of having a successful shared cinematic universe is to guarantee the success of the films set within it. None of the MCU films coming out now, Endgame included, would have been as successful as they are without this connection. Feige hyping up Carol was a marketing tactic and that's also fair. Point is, Captain Marvel far exceeded the amount of success it should have had due to its MCU connection and even due to being this missing key for Endgame, most likely because of the positive word of mouth. I don't think not being on the same level as Iron Man, Cap 1 & 2, GOTG & Ragnarok means a film "sucks".
Kman - 6/25/2019, 10:13 AM
@Oberlin4Prez - So basically we now set unrealistic expectations for these movies that can likely never be obtained.
Oberlin4Prez - 6/25/2019, 10:27 AM
@Kman - That's literally what everyone on this site does. Something new gets announced and it gets dog piled on (Unless it's Marvel) as the worst thing ever.
Oberlin4Prez - 6/25/2019, 10:35 AM
@WakandanQueen - And I acknowledge that Feige knows what he's doing to get butts in seats, but aside from that, would the same level of restraint be given if it weren't tied to the MCU, and I contend it would not.
Kman - 6/25/2019, 10:40 AM
@Oberlin4Prez - not necessarily true - Shazaam has been getting a lot of praise here and that's not MCU... it's the hated WB
Kman - 6/25/2019, 10:41 AM
@Oberlin4Prez - Aquaman too - nobody has been calling that non MCU movie shit. It's about right on pas with Capt Marvel, if not slightly better IMO
Oberlin4Prez - 6/25/2019, 10:46 AM
@Kman - Touché
mastakilla39 - 6/25/2019, 10:50 AM
@TRexx21 @Kman - Oberlin4Prez didn't say it sucked, he just explained that an average af movie like Captain Marvel can be elevated critically and financially if a powerful behemoth like Disney/Marvel is selling it. Captain Marvel is nothing special, but the influence of Disney and Marvel can change its perception to the masses to believe its a must-see film. It's marketing is misleading as it's not even vital to understanding Endgames' plot. It's not even as groundbreaking as Wonder Woman as it's feminist propaganda was tamed. Capt. Marvel is not memorable, it's just an enjoyable film that won't piss you off like AntMan & Wasp. The majority went to go see a groundbreaking feminist Marvel film and got a generic marvel film. The critical and audience reviews of many websites RT, metacritic, imdb, etc. all reflect this.

If Captain Marvel was a Fox or Sony film, it would've flopped or performed on par with the Fox-Men. Disney's brand is the only reason why it's making so much, just like the new live action Aladdin film.
LongMayHeReign - 6/25/2019, 10:56 AM
@Oberlin4Prez -

"That's literally what everyone on this site does. Something new gets announced and it gets dog piled on (Unless it's Marvel) as the worst thing ever."

Well that's...just not factual at all.

Shazam universally praised, and people are genuinely fighting for it's honor on a daily basis it seems.

Aquaman mixed but still got a lot of love.

WW84 one if not THE most anticipated film of next year.

James Gunn's Suicide Squad very anticipated and most of the few hate comments came from DC centric fans that hate comedy.

The Batman extremely positive despite the few who still see Battinson as Edward Cullen.

The only film getting a full on dog pile is BOP. Not quite sure you have been reading the room properly.
Kman - 6/25/2019, 11:09 AM
@mastakilla39 - well technically he did say it sucked in the original post - but we've worked all of that out.

"Feminist propaganda" lol - relax dude, they're just female superhero movies.
Battabing - 6/25/2019, 9:45 AM
Isn't that how the Phoenix is supposed to look?

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