Five Important Quotes For TDKR

Five Important Quotes For TDKR

Which Batman dialogue will be significant for TDKR?

Feature Opinion
By Andrew1 - Dec 17, 2011 05:12 PM EST
Filed Under: Batman

Next week, Warner Bros. will release the second trailer of Christopher Nolan’s The Dark Knight Rises. One of the most anticipated films of all time, Nolan’s super-sequel will likely be closely linked to the previous two films, including such thematic concerns as vengeance, faith, justice, sacrifice and hope. In this article, I will look at several key quotes from Batman Begins and The Dark Knight that may or may not be significant to the new film, considering how the dialogue of Bruce, Alfred, Rachel and Ra’s may offer insights into the next Batman adventure.


“When a forest grows too wild, a purging fire is inevitable and natural.”
Ra’s al Ghul (Neeson) – Batman Begins

In this speech, given towards the end of Batman Begins, Ra’s is attempting to justify his violence and terrorism towards the people of Gotham. Although his goals seem noble, Ra’s is a terrorist that thrives on others’ fears, and threatens Gotham with his fear toxin that would surely destroy the city. In this instance, the concept of the fire has both destructive and reconstructive qualities: the phrase ‘purging’ links the destruction with a form of moral cleansing of the ‘wild’ Gotham, hence justifying an extremist response.

In The Dark Knight Rises, the concept of ‘fire’ seems to be directly linked with Bane, and takes on a more religious quality. In a viral video, a group of voices chant “the fire rises,” the prologue ends with a discussion between Bane and a henchman about “the fire” and Gordon tells Batman in the trailer, “now this evil rises.” The prologue accentuates this concept of religious fervour: a henchman willingly commits suicide in devotion towards the ‘fire.’ Such loyalty suggests that Bane may be a religious or cult figure, who can inspire others to commit suicide. Even Ra’s was not this ruthless towards his followers.


“Gunned down by one of the very people they were trying to help. Create enough hunger and everyone becomes a criminal. Their deaths galvanized the city into saving itself, and Gotham has limped on ever since. We are back to finish the job. And this time no misguided idealists will get in the way. Like your father, you lack the courage to do all that is necessary. If someone stands in the way of true justice, you simply walk up behind them and stab them in the heart.”
Ra’s al Ghul (Liam Neeson) – Batman Begins

The eight-year gap between The Dark Knight and The Dark Knight Rises recalls the gaps in chronology in Batman Begins. In Begins, the death of Bruce’s parents occurs during a terrible depression. Later, when Bruce returns to his city, Gotham “limps on” (sic.) despite the increasing problems with police corruption and mob violence. In The Dark Knight Rises, the citizens of Gotham are limping after the traumas of The Joker’s reign and Harvey Dent’s death. In both instances, the deaths of beloved figures have prompted the citizens to save themselves and protect their city: Bruce’s parents represented philanthropic generosity whilst Dent conveyed justice and righteousness. This may help explain why the League of Shadows seem to be targeting the reputation of Dent in the new film, as they seek to destroy corrupt symbols of righteousness like Dent, who was a decent man that fell morally and, as such, could neve represent “true” justice.

The speech also taps into Bruce’s compassion, and his differences from the League of Shadows. Unlike the other members, Bruce was not prepared to kill others in achieving his goals. Bruce’s refusal to become an executioner is key: it fragments him from the League, and prompts him to adopt an original and different persona. Ra’s is a moral absolutist who believes in extremes (there is criminality and justice and nothing in between), and it is likely that Bane shares many of these characteristics. Bruce and Bane – both Dark Knights (to Dent’s seemingly good White Knight) – are differentiated by this key difference: both are driven, borderline type-A personalities, yet Bruce is never willing to kill to achieve his aims, whilst Bane will do anything (including killing innocents) to destroy Gotham’s symbols. Bane – and Miranda/Talia – are “back to finish the job,” destroying Gotham for good.


“You're a good cop, one of the few … now, we’re two”
Bruce Wayne/Batman (Christian Bale) – Batman Begins

In Batman Begins, Sergeant Gordon thought he was alone. His partner Flass was in the pocket of a gangster and the commissioner was uninterested in his theories about crime prevention. As a result, he appeared to resign himself to the corruption of his city. The introduction of Batman changed everything for Gordon. Still cynical (“I think you’re trying to help, but I have been wrong before”), the cop allows himself to believe in his city again: Gotham could be a place of justice and fairness, as suggested in the second last shot of the film, in which Gordon looks with appreciation and hope at Batman.

In the new film, Gordon looks to be truly alone again, a devastating low considering his previous optimism. In The Dark Knight, Gordon paid the price for standing against corruption and criminality: he felt shame and guilt for his part in Dent’s destruction, his family where threatened and he lost his sole ally – Batman – in order to defeat The Joker. The Dark Knight Rises offers a world-wearier Gordon (“a war hero”) struggling with several moral dilemmas: he has lionised a man that almost-robbed him of his family (the line “I believed in Harvey Dent” oozes irony) and vilified the only person that truly understands the hollowness of the city’s victory. Can a cop still be considered “good” if he is living a lie? Can he grow beyond his self-loathing to become the man he once was?


“When I told you that if Gotham no longer needed Batman we could be together, I meant it. But now I'm sure the day won't come when ‘you’ no longer need Batman. I hope it does; and if it does I will be there, but as your friend. I'm sorry to let you down. If you lose your faith in me, please keep your faith in people.”
Rachel Dawes (Maggie Gyllenhaal) – The Dark Knight

In The Dark Knight, Bruce had two goals: win over Rachel Dawes and return Gotham to its former glory. In his mind, he simultaneously succeeded and failed in achieving those objectives. Because of Alfred’s deception, Bruce thought that Rachel was going to be with him, so – despite her death – he still has that sentiment to cling to. Moreover, Bruce also defeated The Joker but at terrible moral costs: although he never killed his “one rule” – murder – he undermined the city’s civil liberties by spying on them and constructed a mass deception in the form of the Harvey Dent fraud.

The Dark Knight Rises will feature the inevitable consequences of Bruce’s confusion. A soldier in a “peace time,” Bruce has lost his purpose in life – the role of the Batman. In ‘The Man in the Iron Mask,’ the ‘good’ Louise is shocked that he must impersonate his vile, cruel twin brother for his entire life. Thematically, Bruce must wrestle with the same concerns. Bruce is still pretending to be the uncaring, aloof billionaire – a personality completely divorced from his character. Both Gordon and Bruce are living lies and wrestling with their own self-loathing because of their half-accomplished goals and wilful deception. Hence, Bruce may have lost his “faith” in people – including himself.

Catwoman/Selina Kyle may figure strongly in Bruce’s growing faith and confidence in himself. In the previous two films, Bruce is perpetually attempting to prove himself and impress Rachel Dawes. This may serve as an interesting contrast between Rachel and Selina. Earlier, Bruce wanted to leave his Batman personality behind and return to normalcy with Rachel (becoming the type of hero that he wants to be like Dent or his father), whilst – in The Dark Knight Rises – Bruce may be able to accept who he is – Batman – and be with someone that completely accepts that side of him, Selina. As such, Bruce may experience a deeper, more rewarding relationship with Selina than Rachel, as both are looking for acceptance and both will likely understand each other’s dilemmas (duality, trickery, self-loathing) better than anyone else ever could.


“I give a damn, because a good man once made me responsible for what was most precious to him in the whole world.”
Alfred Pennyworth (Michael Caine) – Batman Begins

In the Nolan films, Bruce and Alfred experienced their greatest conflict in Bruce’s early adulthood. When Bruce is at college, he is angry and seething over the deaths of his parents. Bruce refuses to accept the mantle of his parents, pushing away Alfred when the butler challenges him to grow: “why do you give a damn, Alfred?” In this moment, their relationship seems difficult given Bruce’s resentment and nihilism, yet Alfred returns Bruce’s antagonism with fatherly affection.

From the trailer, it seems that Nolan and co. will return to that sequence in The Dark Knight Rises. The term “precious” links the previous speech with the new one (“You are as precious to me as you were to your own mother and father”), and suggests that Bruce and Alfred may experience a new difficulty in their relationship which Alfred may have to overcome again with compassion and understanding. There may be several reasons for their difficulty: Alfred has kept a key secret from Bruce for eight years (Rachel), Bruce may no longer believe in himself, Bruce may be lost in the caddish, selfish ‘Bruce Wayne’ persona or Bruce may not be able to forgive himself for the events of The Dark Knight and The Dark Knight Rises. What is clear is that The Dark Knight Rises will feature Bruce having to re-examine who he is and what it means to be Batman, hence Alfred’s comments and generosity will be vital in the superhero’s understanding of himself.

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CrimeAlley
CrimeAlley - 12/17/2011, 7:47 PM
Great read. I almost feel like you should have put down spoiler alert lol it makes perfect sense.
WingPow
WingPow - 12/17/2011, 8:09 PM
This was well, very well written. Insightful. Nice.
Garmanbozia
Garmanbozia - 12/17/2011, 8:18 PM
Great article. I enjoyed reading it.
Minato
Minato - 12/17/2011, 8:31 PM
Great article. IMO batman did break his one rule in TDK. He killed dent by pushing him off that ledge. This might also be something that may be bothering him. Killing when the whole reason he became what he is, is to stop needless death.
CapedCrusader
CapedCrusader - 12/17/2011, 9:14 PM
Fantastic article. It's refreshing to see someone analyze the dialogue and draw conclusions from it rather than wildly speculating. Well done and nice writing.
Macksimus
Macksimus - 12/17/2011, 10:43 PM
Great article. Better than most of the crap I have read in magazines about the movie.

...I look forward to more.
halvor311
halvor311 - 12/17/2011, 10:56 PM
@Hush2010. I disagree that he killed Dent, there's a difference between letting someone die and killing, Batman pushed Dent out of the way so that he could save the kid and was unable to save both of them. Great article btw. I really enjoyed it.
robace82
robace82 - 12/17/2011, 11:08 PM
In BB he tells Ras something along the lines of "I'm not going to kill you, but that doesn't mean that I have to save you." I'm sure that if he had a third arm, he would have caught Dent as they fell over the ledge.
Tajin88
Tajin88 - 12/18/2011, 12:25 AM
Great article. I enjoyed reading it too. By the way you are wrong Hush2010, what halvor311 saidis right. He had to save the kid and there was no time for Dent anymore. I dont know what you would have done if a kid was in danger but every normal human would care about the kid and not about a maniac who fell after he was fallen already.
Tajin88
Tajin88 - 12/18/2011, 12:35 AM
I thought about Liam Neeson being in the third one and it could turn out that we will see an extended scene in which Ras visited Bruce in prison and told him about becoming a legend. The same scene from batman begins but then we see Bane right after Ras Al Ghul left the cell and Bane asks him "You sure about him?"

And maybe Bane was one of the ninjas in the background when Bruce fought the decoy of Ras al Ghul. Maybe thats why Bane got hurt and has the burn wounds now. And they could show us another flashback scenes about Ras al Ghul when he woke up after Bruce left him behind and Ras al Ghul helps Bane to recover and helps him with his "extreme" pain before he comes to gotham to avenge himself and finish the job. Its my own fanfiction but who knows right.
Tajin88
Tajin88 - 12/18/2011, 1:17 AM
Who knows maybe it turns out Ras al Ghul didnt care about the end of his attack on gotham. Maybe he told himself "If I crush gotham into dust then I was right about bruce when I told him: Like your father, you lack the courage to do all that is necessary." And if he fails he would have seen that he created someone who has the courage to do all that is necessary.

Whatever, I hope Bane has his own reasons to attack gotham and not just because of Ras al Ghul. But it could be personal if he knows that Ras told bruce was his best student. But then we still dont know about the Nolanverse origin of BANE and it could be interesting. One thing is sure, Tom Hardy isnt playing Bane, he is Bane for this movie like Ledger was Joker for TDK.
MovieMaster
MovieMaster - 12/18/2011, 2:07 AM
Great article, I reckon this will turn out to be true.
Moonwalker1991
Moonwalker1991 - 12/18/2011, 6:56 AM
Good article. I hope Ra's does come back, though I doubt the Lazarus Pit will be used in this "realistic" series. Excited about seeing Talia on the big screen, Bane, finally done right, and Catwoman. I'm interested to see what roles Selina Kyle and Talia have in this film. No doubt it will be unique to the story. This movie is going to be awesome. The trailer keeps me wanting more and I honestly can't wait much longer.
BLACKTHORN
BLACKTHORN - 12/18/2011, 6:57 AM
"I know the rage that drives you. That impossible anger strangling the grief, until the memory of your loved one is just poison in your veins. And one day, you catch yourself wishing the person you loved had never existed, so you'd be spared your pain. Your anger gives you great power. But if you let it, it will destroy you … as it almost did me."


let us not forget this quote from Ra's al Ghul in the first film, I think it's going to resonate deeply throughout The Dark Knight Rises.
TheRaven20
TheRaven20 - 12/18/2011, 9:50 AM
Alot of good thoughts here.
RyanLantern77
RyanLantern77 - 12/18/2011, 10:04 AM
He didnt say now we're two after saying you're a good cop.

Gordon said: You're just one man?

Which Bruce says: Now we're two
gmoney0505
gmoney0505 - 12/18/2011, 11:05 AM
What a really thought out article this is. This is why I love Nolan's movies. All these quotes that these characters says has so much meaning to them and to the overall story of the trilogy. There isn't any CBM that has this amazing level of writing anywhere.

Thanks Andrew1 for this amazing article at analyzing these quotes and I can't wait to read the second one.
SentinelofLiberty
SentinelofLiberty - 12/18/2011, 12:56 PM
This is one of the best articles I have ever read on CBM. Excellent stuff, and a pleasure to read. One strange thing I've noticed, and it may be coincidence or lazy screenwriting, Selina tells Bruce a storm is coming, just as Batman told Gordon in BB that a storm was coming.

And I hope, rather than a Bruce who has given up Batman, we instead see Batman who has buried Bruce Wayne, a al A Lonely Place of Dying. Maybe Alfred's line, "You are getting lost inside this monster of yours" from Begins will lead to Alfred's "I've failed to protect you" speech from Rises....
SentinelofLiberty
SentinelofLiberty - 12/18/2011, 12:57 PM
* a la*
Gerrit
Gerrit - 12/18/2011, 2:20 PM
Great article.
SPINKLES
SPINKLES - 12/18/2011, 4:17 PM
Awesome films, awesome director, awesome take on characters and an awesome article written. =) Best read I have seen on here in a long time. And great discussion about it all.
Potterman
Potterman - 12/19/2011, 12:04 AM
Excellent article. The only problem I have with it is the quote about Gordon. I think that John Blake looks to be a good guy. it does seem to me that Gordon and Batman may have some help in the next one.
QuietStorm
QuietStorm - 12/19/2011, 12:20 PM
Don't know if you're in college or what but if I was back at SDSU I would totally turn this in as extra credit or brownie points to any one of my professors just because. Excellent piece!
EpicMan
EpicMan - 12/19/2011, 1:27 PM
Awsome article.... but now i must go back to suffering through wish lists.
RyanLantern77
RyanLantern77 - 12/19/2011, 10:07 PM
So be it... As you were
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