A Possible Theory on Captain America's Place in the MCU Timeline

A Possible Theory on Captain America's Place in the MCU Timeline

Why I think Captain America: The First Avenger is going to throw a curveball into the MCU timeline that we think we know.

Editorial Opinion
By Nation70 - Jun 08, 2011 10:06 AM EST
Filed Under: Other
Source: DCMarvelFreshman

This is just a theory I've come up with regarding the MCU timeline as we think it stands and how Captain America is going to fit into it after the release of "The First Avenger."
Most of us assume that when the Avengers is released next year, we are going to see the iconic scene from the comic books where the Avengers find the frozen Captain America and wake him up in the modern era. While is still highly likely for the Avengers or Post Credits in Captain America, I think there is a chance that Cap's been "out of his time" since Iron Man.
I'm going to present my theory so feel free to share your thoughts/opinions. Like I said, it's only a theory.
The key to all of this is the first appearance of Samuel L. Jackson as Nick Fury, post credits of Iron Man. He says to Tony something along the lines of, "What, you think you're the only one?" Well who else could he possibly be talking about knowing what we know about the MCU timeline.
1) The Hulk - There is no doubt that Shield is aware of the Hulk's existence. Their databases are shown in "The Incredible Hulk" to help General Ross track down Banner and help capture him. They likely even helped in the design of the sound wave weapons used to stop Hulk in the Culver University fight scene. But they are attempting to stop/capture the Hulk. They view him as a threat to society and at best, a guinea pig for the creation of new weapons. They do not view him as a hero worthy of taking up their cause, at least not until he defeats the Abomination. We also know that "TIH" starts during the latter stages of IM2. At the Post Credit scene of Iron Man, Fury at most, has knowledge of the Hulk's existence.
2) Thor - We know by the post credit scene of Iron Man 2 that most of Thor occurs after IM2. Based on Shield arriving in New Mexico to retrieve/study Mjolnir, we can assume that Fury likely has some knowledge of Asgardians or other intergalactic beings. However, when Coulson meets Thor after he has regained his powers, he is shocked at what he bears witness to. He had no idea of Thor's existence and certainly didn't view him as a potential Avenger until after the battle with the Destroyer. Like I said, Fury may have knowledge, but there is no way he'd be relying on Thor to be a part of the Avenger Initiative at the end of IM2 and most certainly not after IM1.
3) Hawkeye/Black Widow - In IM2 she is a deep cover agent for Shield. While Fury may want to use her with the Avenger Initiative, she is no more a superhero that Agent Coulson. Same can be said of Hawkeye. He's a Shield sharpshooter in Thor, not a superhero. My thoughts are that Shield will assign Widow and Hawkeye to the Avengers to help keep tabs on them, but that is a whole other story
4) Captain America - Shield, Ross, and even Stark all know of his existence during WWII. But do they know he is still alive? I've already laid out why it's none of the other Avengers Fury is referencing, but why do I think it is Cap? We see Fury with Cosmic Cube at the end of "Thor". This, we know, occurs after both Iron Man films and likely after "TIH." If any of you guys saw the Cap storyboards by Martin Asbury that DCMarvelFreshman posted on June 1st, then you'd know that the likely final battle between Cap & Red Skull revolves around the cube. I'm assuming that after Cap defeats Skull, he gets frozen with the cube. Perhaps it's even a signal given off by the cube that leads Shield to Cap frozen in the ice. If Fury has the cube that was frozen with Cap at the same time Thor is trapped in Asgard and the Hulk is hiding in the Canadian wilderness, then it's likely that Cap is already there.
We know we won't have Ant Man, Wasp, or Panther for the Avengers, so when Fury hands Tony Stark the Avenger Initiative, who's information is in that file other than Iron Man's? Thor is unknown, Hulk is a villain, it has got to be Cap.
The other clue might be so obvious because it's been in front of our noses for quite some time now. It's the title, "The First Avenger." There are no Avengers in WWII. Sure it could just be for marketing purposes to help get the Avengers ramped up, but what if it isn't? What if the scenes filmed in New York City with Chris Evans and Samuel L. Jackson are taking place while Tony Stark is building the Iron Man suit? Maybe it is called "The First Avenger" because Fury decides to build the team around Cap after they find him and make him the First Avenger. Perhaps the Cap frozen in ice scene from TIH was cut because it screwed with the Avengers timeline? How else did Coulson know exactly what he was holding in IM2 when he picked up Howard Stark's prototype Cap shield? Also, wouldn't it help the Avengers plot along if part of the team was already in place at the start of the film? I think the post credit scene in CA:TFA, if my theory holds water, will be Cap meeting Stark and the founding of the Avengers.
Anyway, like I said, this is only a theory. I'm sure it has holes in it, but it just makes sense to me so I figured I would share with you guys and garner some of your thoughts.

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ThreeBigTacos
ThreeBigTacos - 6/8/2011, 10:52 AM
Meh, I think your looking too much into what Fury said at the end of Iron Man 1. He was just telling Stark that he wasn't alone, and it laid out a possible (at the time) tie in to any future Marvel Studios movies.

Avenger Initiative probably stands for: Fury knows something big is coming (skrulls, hydra, thanos, whatever), and knows that its going to cripple the world, so he's building the Avengers to fight back or 'avenge'.

For example, if he knew the skrull attack is imminent, and that earth's technology wasn't enough to fight back, he's preparing for right after the first initial skrull attacks, 'Avenging' the attacks on earth.

maybe, that's just my theory
Hokeamaniac
Hokeamaniac - 6/8/2011, 11:35 AM
...or the Avengers initiative was started with Captain America back during WWII with the assist to Howard Stark...and that initiative was carried forward to modern day.

magnusinthebox
magnusinthebox - 6/8/2011, 11:38 AM
I think I agree with your teory. I say you're right with it.
superotherside
superotherside - 6/8/2011, 11:51 AM
idk... sounds actually like you might have hit the nail on the head... i can't think of anything to contradict your theory anyway! good job! ;)
BIGBMH
BIGBMH - 6/8/2011, 12:04 PM
It's possible, but I wouldn't think too much about Fury's words at the end of Iron Man. It was probably jus to get people excited about the idea of the MCU and the Avengers.
Nation70
Nation70 - 6/8/2011, 12:41 PM
@Hokeamaniac - That would pretty cool. Plus it would help with the whole issue of Fury and Howard Stark being buddies.
@Otherside & MedinasWorks - Thanks guys
@Frank - I just read your article, makes a ton of sense. Plus I think it would add to the Rogers/Stark tension if Steve is seeing Tony flaunting himself all over TV. Glad to see I'm not the only one who thinks this is a possibility
ROBBEATZZZ
ROBBEATZZZ - 6/8/2011, 1:39 PM
POSSIBLE..BUT FURY COULDVE BEEN REFERING TO THE HISTORY OF CAP OR OTHERS HE MAY KNOW OF(THE SHIELD LOGO'S ON THE MAP WITH VARIOUS LOCATIONS IN IM2) LEADS ME TO THINK FURY KNOWS OF OTHERS..

BUT WE DO KNOW THESE MOVIES KIND OF OVERLAP IN TIMELINE..WE R YET 2 SEE EXACTLY HOW THEY FIT TOGETHER

SN: STARK INDUSTRIES DESIGNED THE SONIC BLASTERS USED ON THE HULK..THE BLUE PRINTS FOR THEM R SHOWN IN THE PRE-CREDITS IN THE HULK FILM
ROBBEATZZZ
ROBBEATZZZ - 6/8/2011, 1:45 PM
YEA STARK IS ALREADY INVOLVED DURING HULK..HE EVEN MENTIONS TO ROSS THAT "I TOLD YOU SO GENERAL..THAT WEAPONS SURPLUS PROGRAM HAS BEEN PUT ("ON ICE") FOR A REASON"..THATS CLEARLY A HINT THAT STARK KNOWS CAP IS STILL FROZEN..OR JUST A NOD THAT CAP WAS THE ONLY MAIN SUCCESSFUL SUPERSOLDIER...BLONSKI DIDNT WORK OUT
Nation70
Nation70 - 6/8/2011, 3:36 PM
I was going to say something about Stark at the end of TIH. He says the super soldier program was put on ice years ago. How would Stark know Cap was frozen if he wasn't already thawed out? I mean, they thought Cap was dead until he was discovered in the ice right?
Retardo
Retardo - 6/8/2011, 5:16 PM
Interesting theory... Fury did say "you think you'r the only superhero out there?" Could definetly be a referrence to Cap... Hmmm... Food 4 thought I guess, nice editorial!

Check out my Infamous fan cast if u got the chance though!
Wadey09
Wadey09 - 6/8/2011, 7:00 PM
@Nation
"put on ice" means that they halted the Super Soldier Program.
why????
because (POSSIBLE SPOILER) Abraham Erskine, the creator of the SS Serum, is assassinated by Heinz Kruger. no one could ever reproduce the formula or the process that made Steve Rogers into Captain America.

"put on ice" i believe was both a sarcastic nod to how tech is better and a little fanboy easter egg for those who know their comic lore.

just sayin.
thejavster
thejavster - 6/9/2011, 12:04 AM
good theory it makes sense....and the stark cameo in TIH i dont remember him saying that...did i miss something? all i remember him saying was that he was putting a team together...
Orphix
Orphix - 6/9/2011, 3:40 AM
Good theory but I would also suggest that Fury already knows about Thor too - or at least Asgard and Odin.

In a clip of audio from the Comic Con last year in San Diego we heard Red Skull talking about the cosmic cube and referencing 'Odin's Treasure Room'. And then, at the end of Thor, Selvig says that Fosters worm hole theory is unprecedented, to which Fury raises and eyebrow and shows him the cube.

NOW - this could mean one of two things (or both). Firstly, that when Fury says to Stark "You think you're the only superhero" he is refering to Thor because he knows all about Asgard (and Coulson wasn't sure he recognised him).

OR he is refering to Thor AND Captain America because got frozen WITH the cube and they were both found together.
CorndogBurglar
CorndogBurglar - 6/9/2011, 4:59 AM
its a good theory except for one thing.

In IM2, there was that map that showed the locations of a lot of different super powered people. There was a spot for Namor and Atlantis, Black Panther, one in Canada, and yes, even Cap's frozen body in the river.

So, even though your theory makes sense, in all honesty, Fury could have been talking about any of those people on the map.
RunDTC
RunDTC - 6/9/2011, 7:16 AM
the only thing I think that would put a wrinkle in your theory is: if Cap was unfrozen or whatever before "Iron Man" and ended up in Times Square and Fury talks to him there....wouldn't that be a major news story? wouldn't Stark have heard about it?
Nation70
Nation70 - 6/9/2011, 7:23 AM
Considering Stark didn't know who Fury was or Shield even until the end of Iron Man, I think they'd be pretty good at keeping things under wraps.
ROBBEATZZZ
ROBBEATZZZ - 6/9/2011, 8:22 AM
@thejavster..YUP STARK SAY'S THAT TO ROSS BEFORE HE MENTIONS "PUTTING A TEAM TOGETHER"..HE SAID "I TOLD YOU SO GENERAL..THAT WEAPONS SURPLUS PROGRAM HAS BEEN PUT ("ON ICE") FOR A REASON"..REFERING TO ROSS'S FAILED ATEMPT TO TURN BLONSKI INTO A SUPER SOLDIER..INSTEAD HE CREATED A MONSTER.
ROBBEATZZZ
ROBBEATZZZ - 6/9/2011, 8:30 AM
HEY GUY'S! SOMEONE MENTIONED THIS ON ANOTHER THREAD BUT IM CURIOUS ALSO..AND GETTING KIND OF WORRIED ABOUT THIS....

WHATS UP WITH GEN ROSS IN AVENGERS?..NO MENTION YET..
HE SHOULD BE IN IT @ SOME POINT FOR STARK TO MENTION THE TEAM TO HIM..AND STARK WAS CLEARLY HELPING ROSS TRY TO STOP HULK..THOSE SONIC WAVE BLASTERS WERE STARK TECH.
RunDTC
RunDTC - 6/9/2011, 8:57 AM
@ROBBEATZZZ: I don't know, man. he definitely needs to be in it. Hurt was awesome as Ross but it will also help a lot with continuity.

are you Stephen A. Smith? talking with Caps Lock on the whole time?
Nation70
Nation70 - 6/9/2011, 9:06 AM
@ROB and run - I agree with you guys. Ross needs to be in it. Even if it is only as a cameo. He sort of needs to be there to facilitate the Avengers and Hulk coming together, whether as a team or squaring off in battle with each other.
ironpool007
ironpool007 - 6/9/2011, 9:28 AM
Put spaces between your paragraphs please. I could barely read that.
ROBBEATZZZ
ROBBEATZZZ - 6/9/2011, 10:31 AM
@runDTC..YEA I AGREE..HE IS A MUST..

"Stephen A. Smith"..LOL THATS HILARIOUS..BUT NAW I JUST LIKE TO USE CAPS WHEN IM NOT TYPING AN IMPORTANT MESSAGE
..I GUESS..LOL
ROBBEATZZZ
ROBBEATZZZ - 6/9/2011, 10:51 AM
@Nation70..YEAH MAN THEY GOTTA GET HIM BACK IN THE MIX..JUST A LIL NERVOUS WE HAVE NOT HEARD ANYTHING ABOUT HIM RETURNING FOR AVERNGERS
Vandal
Vandal - 6/9/2011, 1:28 PM
What about Cap being shown still frozen in the ice at the end of Hulk?

I know it wasn't an "actual" part of the movie, but why even think of putting the teaser there if he's supposed to already be out and about.
CraptainAmerica
CraptainAmerica - 6/10/2011, 12:37 PM
@Nation. Irrespective of Fury says "you think you're they only one?" I think this theory has great bearing. This is a theory I, and probably a lot more, had considered...that Cap is in the present day prior to all of the previous Marvel outings. Well done for bringing it to the forefront!!!

@Vandal. It was actually an alternative opening scene
ComicBrooks
ComicBrooks - 6/11/2011, 3:09 PM
Very interesting and the sound devices in Hulk were designed by Stark industries. Hope it helps!
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