EDITORIAL: Breaking Down This Sony Spinoff Debacle

EDITORIAL: Breaking Down This Sony Spinoff Debacle

There's a lot to talk about recently, regarding the nature of the Sony deal, and a lot of things that aren't true have been building up like a festering pile of nonsense, so lets break some stuff down.

Editorial Opinion
By Winterwinner - Jun 24, 2017 04:06 PM EST
Filed Under: Spider-Man
To start, essentially the problem boils down to this:

In a recent interview, Amy Pascal indicated heavily that both Venom and Silver & Black were set in the MCU in which Spider-Man: Homecoming takes place in, which is contrary to both previous statements by Feige and another one Feige made just recently saying they were not connected to the Marvel Cinematic Universe. Naturally, this has kicked up a bit of furor in the fan community as to what the hell this all actually means, so I think I'll break down a few facts (and non-facts) that have been brought up in the wake of this recent news.

#1: Does Only Kevin Feige Decide What Is Canon In The MCU?

This is a complicated question. There have been installments in the MCU that have lacked Feige's involvement, such as every entry made by Marvel Television (save for Agent Carter, which is the only MCU property that Feige has personally worked on). The TV shows, however, do appear to have been given Feige's blessing and acknowledgement, including shows that were once being developed as films under his studio, such as The Inhumans and Runaways. However, while he hinted at some kind of crossover in the future, he's never gone out of his way to actively include references from the TV side into the film side. The closest thing to one would be Damage Control, which was both referenced in Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D and currently floating in TV limbo as possibly being its own series before appearing in Spider-Man: Homecoming. To that extent, however, there is one thing of this we can make for certain, and it is that Kevin Feige is not the only person creating content that is canon to the MCU.

#2: Does Sony Have Any Authority Over Marvel Studios?


While Feige has produced all the movies in the Marvel Cinematic Universe, including Homecoming,  this case is different: not only his Amy Pascal co-producing with Feige, unlike the one other time Feige has not been the sole producer, The Incredible Hulk, Marvel Studios is making a movie out of a property they do not own. Unlike the Hulk, where Universal retains some distribution rights while Marvel has the actual character rights, Sony still owns Spider-Man entirely, as evidenced by the fact that they can both make Homecoming and also make the Miles Morales animated Spider-Man film at the same time.

What is less clear, however, is whether or not Sony can make films like Venom and Silver & Black part of the MCU seemingly without any actual permission from Marvel Studios. There's not much known about the actual content over what the deal to allow Spider-Man: Homecoming to happen is, but all reports indicate it is essentially a quid-pro-quo deal: Marvel can produce Spider-Man films, and include him in other Marvel Studios films, but Sony pays for, distributes, markets, and profits from the solo Spider-Man films, and (to an unknown extent) characters from each side can cross over to the other, with permission.

In simpler terms, Sony cannot make references to characters Marvel Studios owns without permission.

This, however, does not clear up the main concern with what Amy Pascal has been indicating: actually What this does bring us to is a final question:

#3: Does Sony Have The Ability To Create Films Set In The MCU?

 


And the answer is: Yes.

Technically.


See, while Sony would need explicit permission from Marvel and/or Feige to use characters that Marvel owns in the spinoffs (such as a reference to the Avengers or Iron Man, for instance), and Feige's current stance seems to ensure such a reference will not happen. Sony can, however, freely as and as much as they wish to, make Spider-Man references. There is absolutely nothing, legally speaking, keeping from, for instance, referencing Spider-Man, or making references to other Spider-Man characters, such as Vulture, J. Jonah Jameson, or places such as the Daily Bugle. As for an appearances by Holland in the spinoffs, which Pascal also hinted at being a possibility in the interview (and THR reported is, indeed, party of Sony's plans for their "adjunct" films), while Holland is not currently contracted to appear in any spinoffs (currently only for two more Spider-Man solo films and both parts of Infinity War), a new contract could happen that would have Holland appear, or a workaround could be in place (direct references to the events of Homecoming, appearances by other characters from Homecoming, or potentially just a visual reference without Holland being physically present (such as a CGI Spider-Man wearing the Civil War/Homecoming costume).


Now, can Feige disavow these films and choose to never reference them? Oh, absolutely he can. No Marvel Studios film is obligated to acknowledge the existence or events of any film Sony makes, similar to how they don't actively reference the Marvel Cinematic Universe's television entries. But could he contradict them? Well, that would be likely be substantially harder. If we're operating under the assumption that each side can only use the other's characters with permission, then it likely is a two way street: if Sony can't use Marvel-owned characters in their films without permission, Marvel cannot use villains such as Venom, Black Cat, or Silver Sable without Sony's permission either. And since Sony clearly consider their films a part of the canon, I doubt they would give Feige permission to actively retcon their entire initiative.

So, while Kevin Feige can say as much as he wishes that the Sony spinoff films are in no way canon, Sony is under no obligation or restriction with trying to connect their spinoffs to the aspects of Homecoming they have legal rights to. And while fanboys and fangirls can argue till their faces turn blue how Sony's films aren't really canon, if Sony has a Spider-Man appear in any of these spinoffs that is identical to Tom Holland's (and possibly even actually played by Tom Holland), you're going to have a hard time convincing the broader moviegoing public that the films aren't really connected.

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GrilledLove87
GrilledLove87 - 6/24/2017, 8:18 PM
So then I feel "drunky" aka Amy Pascal should be more clear when it comes to her Ramblings. I think everyone including myself just hears her trying to take control over our man Feige. But the truth is she does have control over Spider-Man and we all knew this from the get-go. To us she's saying "Sony is making marvel do these spin offs with them." "That these spin offs will be in marvels universe because of f Spider-Man now being in the marvel universe." Which "technically" can't be changed now because of this deal. If Sony were to take Spider-Man back what are they going to do "act like the avengers or avengers tower for that matter no longer exists?" We are all biting the bullet because of this deal. It wouldn't seem right if they make a venom spin off and want to use Tom hollands Spider-Man but it's in a different New York lol. At the end of the day Sony aka Amy needs to "ASK" Feige and marvel to play in there sandbox "since that's what it seems like she's getting at" not just "assume because she's letting marvel use Spider-Man to make them a shit tone of money that they can start calling the shots and telling Marvel "so we're making spinoffs in your universe because we lent you Spider-Man okay." Don't know how any of this is going to work because of Tom Holland. I'd love to see him in more movies but I feel they "Sony" should keep Tom in the marvel universe and make a separate universe for the rest of there shit idea movies and cast miles morales to take the lead in a new "Sony" Lead trilogy. Leave Tom where he belongs, in the good universe making a lot of money and not bombing at the box office.
tazmaniak
tazmaniak - 6/24/2017, 8:21 PM
The bottom-line is Marvel Studios and Sony are partners in making these Spider-Man films. Marvel Entertainment and Sony Pictures have always maintained a good relationship in relation to the Spider-Man film rights. Because they are partners and on good terms, if Feige/Marvel doesn't want the Sony films connected to the MCU, Sony would be obliged to comply. It's ridiculous to think Sony would sully their relationship by going forward with this if it's against Marvel's wishes.
Darkknight2149
Darkknight2149 - 6/24/2017, 10:19 PM
To be fair, if Tom Holland appears in the spin-offs, Feige can say that the MCU is canon to Venom but Venom isn't canon to the MCU (which is probably the direction they're headed with the television shows).
TheRose
TheRose - 6/24/2017, 11:09 PM
I hope this makes it to main, simply because the all the news concerning this SonyVerse is definitely confusing to the casual fan. Thanks for writing this up!
bkmeijer2
bkmeijer2 - 6/25/2017, 4:54 AM
In my opinion, sony should continue their universe esthablished in the amazing spider man 1 and 2. Just make it some sort of ultimate universe, but without the peter parker version of spider man
ager
ager - 7/3/2017, 8:14 AM
I'm just upset that we're not getting Agent Venom; we'd better not get the MCU version of Flash Thompson as Agent Venom
ArmFallOffBoy
ArmFallOffBoy - 7/6/2017, 10:33 AM
They should do spider man 2099
superherofan21
superherofan21 - 7/6/2017, 4:44 PM
Sony needs to just halt production on all of this stuff right now. As much as I love the idea of Tom Hardy as Venom, it's way too soon to try and fit it into the MCU. And if it's unrelated... then that's incredibly stupid. Bottom line: Sony needs to knock it off and wait at least a couple years before doing stuff like this... and WITH Marvel's involvement.
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