EDITORIAL: Why The Dark Knight Rises Won't Be The Next Spider-Man 3

EDITORIAL: Why The Dark Knight Rises Won't Be The Next Spider-Man 3

Listen up people, these are some points you should consider.

Editorial Opinion
By sonofsamadams - May 09, 2012 12:05 AM EST
Filed Under: Batman

I've seen a few comments here and there, of people stating Nolan's new epic will turn out to be the next Spider-man 3. Their reasoning? 'Well the first movie was good, the Second one blew it out of the water and became one of the greatest movies ever, and the 3rd one became a total and utter disappointment.' -that is true, for Raimi's Spider-man trilogy.

Let's face it, Spider-man (2002) was groundbreaking for the comicbookmovie genre. It inspired Hulk, Daredevil, Fantastic four, X-men, and more to come out after it. Domestically it engrossed the highest out of the three, and its inevitable sequel indeed blew it out of the water. Spider-man 2 gave a darker twist to the characters as well as the story line. Sure there was still a lot of humor that was seen in the first film, but there was just a deeper meaning to it. It was about Peter going through changes in life, from losing his powers and his girlfriend, and trying to re-adapt to society. In the end Spider-man 2 was the smarter movie. In the end, Spider-man 3 made us wanna re-think our lives. Spider-man 3 starts out with a promise, it really does. But with a forced, unnecessary story involving the Sandman, the third installment takes a steep nose dive into sheer and utter disappointment. I have yet to meet someone who said, 'Oh Spider-man 3 trumps its predecessors' 'Its a tour de force!'

With most of the doubts cleared with the latest trailer, The Dark Knight Rises is shaping up to being one of the best conclusions to a trilogy to date. But some of its haters are persistent, claiming it will be the next Spider-man 3. But I call bullshit on that. And here are my main points:

1. The commitment to the movie


The difference between Spider-man 3 and The Dark Knight Rises is the people working behind the camera. With Spider-man 3, the bigger names working on the production really didn't want to complete the Spider-man trilogy. They all seemed happy enough to have it conclude with two. But just like many other greedy Hollywood studios out there, Columbia conned them into making another one. When people don't want to do something and are forced to do it, their overall effort is a bit tired and lackluster. Raimi was done with Spidey. He wanted to move onto other projects, namely productions similar to his Evil Dead trilogy in the 80s. While they had fun making Spidey 1 & 2, Raimi wanted to move on. But with the overwhelming success of 2004's Spider-man 2 (to which Roger Ebert called the best super hero movie since Superman 2) the studios just had to make another film. Raimi didn't want to, and without Raimi, the cast didn't want to either. And without the cast, the studio knew their project would fail. So naturally, they promised Raimi a hefty paycheck if he directed Spider-man 3. Raimi reluctantly accepted and filming went underway. From the theatrical version one can obviously tell that the filmmakers were getting tired of their work, and the overall product seems forced and unnecessary. Raimi took the George Lucas way out-didn't care about making a good movie; he just wanted the money.

The Dark Knight Rises has a different story. Now yes, Christopher Nolan didn't intend to make a Batman Trilogy. He wanted to leave it at two films and move on. But his reasoning for making the third Batman is much different. Nolan loves directing movies, and one can see that through his resume. Not one of his movies is listed as 'rotten' on Rotten Tomatoes. As matter of fact, his lowest rated movie is at 75% fresh. Thats really impressive. When it comes down to it, Nolan wanted to do The Dark Knight Rises. If I'm not mistaken, he said in an interview that he wanted to tackle the 'third movie curse'. When a man at his level of talent in Hollywood says that, you know you're in for a great film. And lets not forget the man said he would not make another Batman movie if it wasn't as good or better than The Dark Knight.


2. Casting

Another big problem with Spider-man 3 was the casting. While I thought Tobey McQuire, Kirsten Dunst, and James Franco did an awesome job portraying their characters, there was some noticeably terrible casting choices that wenet along with Spider-man 3's production. Namely Topher Grace. First off, where is the logical reasoning in casting Eric Foreman, the main character off of one of the most successful and iconic TV sit coms in history to play Venom? I had a feeling a conversation like this happened:
'Hey, Raimi, we've got most of the original cast back together. But we need a new villain. We're going with Venom.'
'Venom? Nice.'
'Yeah, say...we were thinkin of someone good...'
'You're right. We do need someone good. Get me Topher Grace. Guy can't be too buys nowadays. Its not like anybody's gonna care anyway. We'll make a fortune with this movie no matter what. Hey, why don't we shoe-horn Gwen into this movie? And Sandman too! Oh hell, lets bring back the Green Goblin! It'll be one big family reunion.'
If you care about the movie you're making, you need to be careful about the people you're casting to play the roles in the film. Its clear the casting team for Spider-man 3 just didn't care. Topher Grace isn't a terrible actor, he just isn't the guy play a super villain. I'll admit, Venom looked pretty beast while he was on screen, but when he morphed back into Topher, it just took away the drama and the thrills of having the villain there. Topher Grace was not the right guy for the job; nobody could take him seriously. Bryce Dallas Howard is a very good actress, but she was used wrong in Spider-man 3 as Gwen. That's one of the many reasons why I'm excited for the new Spider-man, because Gwen's character will be used right. In Spider-man 3, it all just felt forced.

With The Dark Knight Rises, the only thing people are really questioning is Anne Hathaway, but in a positive way. People are excited to see her portray Catwoman, and most importantly she's an actress the general population can take seriously. Nolan and his casting team got the right people. Through the trailers, Anne Hathaway looks comfortable playing the Batman anti-hero. I am a firm believer that the film makers made the right choice by choosing Tom Hardy to play Bane. You know an actor loves his job when he devotes his life to a certain role and in Tom Hardy's case, he bulked up to play 'the man who broke Batman's back'. The bottom line is that TDKR casting team really did their homework,and chose the best people to play the roles. As stated earlier, Spider-man 3's casting crew just cared about the $$$, not the quality of the finished product.


3. Sticking to the general theme of the series.

Spider-man 1 and 2 had the same feeling; the same theme. While watching them back to back, you can feel the connection between the two films; they work well together. Spider-man 3 took the franchise in a different and terrible direction. The only trailer released for Spider-man 3 that I felt made it out to be just as good as its predecessors was its teaser trailer. It sent off this chilling dark feature much like Spider-man 2, and with that it pumped my interest. But with the theatrical trailers, the feeling was much different. The tone seemed a little off, and it was all just a little weird. And then the movie was released, and it was painfully obvious the theme had been changed. It is true that the previous Spider-men prior to the abomination called Spider-man 3, there was witty dialogue, and some up beat humor, but it was done with a little class, and there was a deeper darker meaning behind it all. With Spider-man 3, it was just too campy; too corny for most people's taste. And not to mention at times they portrayed Spidey in a completely different way. He wasn't as witty or funny or as heroic as he was in the first two films; in Spider-man 3, Spidey in a way comes off as an unlikable douche. Like I said, it felt as if nobody cared about making this movie.


Finally we come to The Dark Knight Rises. Through all of its trailers, posters, and other footage, its clear that the tone of the movie is parallel with the previous movies: dark and bleak. The characters look and feel the same as they did in the other movies, and there's ascertainment that this third and final Batman won't stray to far off from the meaning of this trilogy. Unlike Raimi, Nolan cares about his third film. He's concerned about keeping the tone the same as the previous movies.


By the end of the day, Nolan's Batmans are the smarter films; they're more in-depth and have a much more darker, deeper meaning to them. Spider-man was more family friendly, and the first two films captured the tone of the character pretty well. The new Batmans have done the same for the Dark Knight detective, and the Dark Knight Rises is shaping up to be another crowd-pleaser.

Still have doubts and think it might be the next Spider-man? Consider this: Nolan is the better film maker; he doesn't get tired of the project. And yes he probably does want that pay check by the end of the day, he just loves making movies. I'm sure the substances comes over the cash for the guy. For him its not about tossing a bunch of CGI onto the screen; its about telling a good story, with good dialogue, and surprising the audience. Spider-man 3 was rushed, misguided and an example of a forced product by Hollywood executives. The Dark Knight Rises will break the curse, and it'll join The Original Star Wars, Indiana Jones, Lord of the Rings and The Bournes as the best trilogies around. And if you think there are two many villains think again. In Batman begins the two baddies were Scarecrow and Ra's Al Ghul. In The Dark Knight it was Joker and Two-face. and in The Dark Knight Rises, there is two villains yet again: Bane and Catwoman, backing up the idea that the tone for TDKR is the same as the first two films. And not only that, the cinematography looks as dark and mysterious as BB and TDK. With Spider-man 3, they somehow felt that by packing as many villains into the movie as possible would be a great pay off. Don't worry about Batman. This is the movie we need and deserve.
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95
95 - 5/8/2012, 9:13 PM
The Dark Knight Rises is going to be a great conclusion, I agree. It has elements of BB & TDK, combined plus much more. Speculated plotline has so many great themes and symbolism. This ain't no Spider-Man 3.
TonyChu
TonyChu - 5/8/2012, 9:16 PM
Well one reason Spiderman 3 failed was because it was the studio that kept pressuring Rami to use Venom, even though Sandman was suppose to be the only villian. TDKR is all in Nolan's hands.
Zarog
Zarog - 5/8/2012, 9:39 PM
Sam Raimi was not the problem with that film. He asked the studio for different villains, and a completely different story. Raimi had nothing to do with it, and you're an asshole for saying that Raimi was the one that wanted Topher Grace to be cast as Venom.
DraculaX
DraculaX - 5/8/2012, 9:48 PM
I think for Spider-Man 3, they should had included the storyline for TASM, (Interdouce the Lizard, Peter's parents) Have the symbote (That Peter and Eddie Brock's parents were working on) take control of Peter throughout the film, then at the end the symbote takes control of Brock turning him into Venom for Spider-Man 4.
Minotauro
Minotauro - 5/8/2012, 9:48 PM
Funny that this article is made, because I just got through watching Spiderman 3, but only for the action scenes. And I'm telling myself that these action scenes are really good with great CGI. But it all went down hill after the emo experiment came out after the Spidey/Sandman 2nd encounter, meh.
tboyer86
tboyer86 - 5/8/2012, 10:09 PM
I agree, this Batman trilogy will be the first successful CBM trilogy. Just a little side note...Spider-man did not inspire the X-Men franchise, it was the other way around. X-Men came out in 2000 and inspired film makers to make Spider-man, the Hulk, ect.
Tajin88
Tajin88 - 5/8/2012, 10:09 PM
Well its official, Spiderman 3 was the weakest of the trilogy, but it wasnt utter crap like many people say, but it could have been done so much better than it turned out.

What can you say about TDKR? Well its very sad, that Nolan wont do anotherone, but he is right about ending his story and moving to other projects. Somehow I dont care what will happen next to Batmen after TDKR, but maybe WB will come up wit something good, but it should rest for a while.
gamecreatorjj
gamecreatorjj - 5/8/2012, 10:44 PM
ramai didn't want to have venom, or the symbiote, or even sandman, the studio forced it, ramai's idea for spiderman 3 was god aweful, i dont remember it, but it was like the vulture, and vulture robots and black cat was the vultress, and it was just shitty times
leftcoastpunk
leftcoastpunk - 5/8/2012, 11:02 PM
I had pretty much lost most interest in TDKR until I saw the new trailer yesterday. I was curious about how it would all end but that was about it. Know im excited again, but alot of the reason is because Bane and his stupid voice annoy the hell outta me and I just want to see him get his ass kicked.
leftcoastpunk
leftcoastpunk - 5/8/2012, 11:02 PM
^now
Superheromoviefan
Superheromoviefan - 5/9/2012, 2:31 AM
tdkr will be awesome
kingshnake
kingshnake - 5/9/2012, 3:25 AM
I hope amazing spider-man 2 or 3 has venom and carnage the best spider-man villains
CorndogBurglar
CorndogBurglar - 5/9/2012, 3:34 AM
You kind of sound like you dont have your facts straight.

First, Nolan always had a plan for a 3rd Batman film, but when ledger died, it threw a monkey wrench in his plan because it was supposed to include Joker. So rather than forcing out a 3rd, he took his time and didnt start working on it until he had a good story.

Second, raimi was not excited at all about the studio making him use venom. He wanted to use Vulture and have Felicia Hardy be his daughter, who later would become Vulturess. It was God awful.

Third, when they picked topher they were going with the Ultimate Eddie Brock appearance, that was the logic.
vj
vj - 5/9/2012, 7:13 AM
Why will Nolan want a paycheque?
He is the producer.
antonio
antonio - 5/9/2012, 9:53 AM
Fantastic article.
Azrael725
Azrael725 - 5/9/2012, 1:27 PM
CornDogBurglar's right about his first satetment. And thank God Nolan did it that way. The question is, what would TDKR been like with another Joker centered plot? Maybe someday we'll find out. Great article nonetheless.
HouseSnow
HouseSnow - 5/9/2012, 1:49 PM
am i the only person who didn't like any of the spiderman movies?
sonofsamadams
sonofsamadams - 5/9/2012, 2:23 PM
@BanewillBREAKyou

Nah dude you're not.

I have a few of my friends that can't stand the movies. Some simply for the fact they don't like the way they were made, others for the fact that they don't like Spider-man the character.
tboyer86
tboyer86 - 5/9/2012, 2:37 PM
@CorndogBurgler

actually you are right and wrong. Raimi didn't want to use Venom in the third movie, but the studio forced him to. So you were right about that. The whole thing about wanting to use the "vulturess" was his plan for the fourth movie until it fortunately got scrapped.
tboyer86
tboyer86 - 5/9/2012, 2:40 PM
@sonofsamadams

I think most people liked the Spider-Man movies at the time they were realized, particularly 1 and 2, but if you go back you realize that they could have been a lot better. I think the Amazing Spider-Man will do just that.
CapedCrusader
CapedCrusader - 5/9/2012, 4:20 PM
Great article! Has anyone else not re-watched Spider-Man 3 after their initial viewing? I've just never been able to make myself watch it again. It's definitely below average, but not quite bad enough to make fun of throughout (a la Batman & Robin).
rockerdude22
rockerdude22 - 5/9/2012, 6:47 PM
Good article! But, I'll just give a little advice. Movies will always have haters to them, and it's best just to ignore them. Some people just want to complain about anything. But anyway, good article, and even thought I'm way more of a Marvel fan, I like CBMs in general and I can't wait to see what Nolan has in store for the end of the trilogy!
awesomem131
awesomem131 - 5/9/2012, 6:58 PM
TBH i felt like the tone between BB and TDK we're slightly different....idk what it was but it felt different watching these two back to back but all in all good write-up.
sikwon
sikwon - 5/9/2012, 7:40 PM
i love the dark knight rises. love it, regardless og ganre it is one of my favorite movies. people define themselves, or are defined, as nolanites. thats fine but here is the real strength of the dark knight... heath ledger gave a once in a lifetime performance as the joker (whome i love as a character in comics and his portrail on screen, movies and t.v) that is on par, seriously on par, with anthony hopkins as hannibal lecter and james earl jones as darth vader (the voice was powerful and menacing). im taking nothing away from the movie, nothing, but if the joker wasnt as prominant and absolutely fantastic in every way, would we still love it? 2 face was great, but think back to harveys best scenes in that movie, it was the hospital bed with the joker and the 38. now i am a huge nolan fan, i will watch anything he directs. im also a big christian bale fan (american psycho is fantastic). but the key to the dark knight is the joker. i fully expect rises to be a fantastic movie. great director, great, probably a fantastic script/story. but what makes the dark knight so damn good, so iconic, one of the best movies ever made, is the joker. one of the truths of any story is tht the hero is only as good as the villian. bale is a great actor, ledger was a good actor that reached epic proportions. in no way is this intended to be a nock on anything, im simply saying that it will be impossible to repeat what heath was able to achieve as the joker, who in all honest is probably the most famous and easily recognizable villan in the world. i understand that jack nicholson portraid him differently (keep in mind i was 13 when that movie came out and i saw it easily 6 times in the theater) but heath ledger took that character and the cocept of villany to new heights.
sikwon
sikwon - 5/9/2012, 7:41 PM
the dark knight* havent seen rises yet.
batmanmovie2012
batmanmovie2012 - 5/9/2012, 9:25 PM
@sikwon Batman will be better in this movie because Bane will be a better villain. While I think Heath Ledger will probably do a better job than Tom Hardy (hope he's not expecting an oscar) I think Bane is just going to obliterate Gotham in a way the Joker couldn't and will be an even bigger challenge for Batman than the Joker. Bane is Gotham's reckoning!
TheYesGuy
TheYesGuy - 5/10/2012, 3:04 AM
Why do I get the Feeling that this is an article bout how bad Spiderman 3 is Rather than bout Batman..!!

But watever happens, In Nolan I believe..!!

I pity those ppl who compare Joss Whedon and Christopher Nolan..!
TheYesGuy
TheYesGuy - 5/10/2012, 3:06 AM
Nolan is Absolute Genius..

And it's not bout being a Nolanite or wat ppl call it.., It's bout getting Quality movies.. And Nolan Has Proved his Worth day in and Day out..
BLACKTHORN
BLACKTHORN - 5/10/2012, 11:35 AM
so much win and truth in this article, absolutely agree with everything you said, Nolan is a terrific filmmaker who loves making movies and what's more important, he's got integrity, something the cast and crew of spiderman 3 didn't have, he's a filmmaker who's interested in making great stories and has a lot of respect for the audience and the fans, we can tell the same mistake won't be made simply because The Dark Knight Rises is the result of an extremely talented filmmaker who is following his own instinct as a writer and director.
No one expected that he was gonna use Bane and Catwoman, no one has a clue where the story is going and where it ends and that is exactly how he wants it, he's gonna give people something they've never seen before, not some bullshit 3D movie with the riddler and the penguin just for the sake of it.

in Nolan we trust.
sonofsamadams
sonofsamadams - 5/10/2012, 2:02 PM
@TheYesGuy

I'm trying to point out why Spider-man failed and why TDKR wont here, and by doing that I have to talk alot about Spidey 3.
TheOther
TheOther - 5/11/2012, 5:38 AM
for me, Spidey 3 isn't that bad, it's actually a good film, but not as great as it's predecessors. TDKR, for me, there's a 98% possibility that it will be BETTER than TDK.
BIGBMH
BIGBMH - 5/12/2012, 10:08 AM
While I highly doubt TDKR will be another Spider-man 3, I still don't agree with everyone who just assumes it will be amazing. Before Spider-man 3, there was huge hype. Everyone thought the second one was amazing, the first one was great (the best IMO), and we were getting both Venom and the climax of the Harry/Goblin arc that had been building sine the end of the first movie. Arguably, there was more reason to think this was going to be the best of the trilogy than there is for TDKR. The point I'm getting at is that people were probably almost as sure that it would be great as they are that TDKR will be great. Nolan is great, but that doesn't mean every single movie he makes is going to be amazing. I'm hoping TDKR will be satisfying, but certain things make me a little uneasy.
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