ARROWVERSE Creator Marc Guggenheim Thinks Marvel Studios Needs To Reduce Its Content Output

ARROWVERSE Creator Marc Guggenheim Thinks Marvel Studios Needs To Reduce Its Content Output

"If I was suddenly in [Marvel Studios President] Kevin Feige's role, basically I would do what Iger was saying, which is prune the tree. You know, there's just too much content," said Guggenheim.

By MarkJulian - Jul 26, 2023 08:07 AM EST
Filed Under: Marvel Studios
Source: The Aarthi and Sriram Show

Recently, Disney CEO Bob Iger stated that he thinks Marvel Studios may have overextended themselves by producing television shows for Disney+. It's a sentiment that many MCU fans have echoed, as there's currently a prevailing perception that the MCU brand is on a downward trajectory.

You can count Arrowverse creator Marc Guggenheim among the latter.  A recent guest on The Aarthi and Sriram Show, Guggenheim was asked about his thoughts on rebooting the MCU.

Said Guggenheim [via The Direct]:  

"If I was suddenly in [Marvel Studios President] Kevin Feige's role, basically I would do what Iger was saying, which is prune the tree. You know, there's just too much content. I'm like the biggest Marvel nerd ever, and I haven't seen Moon Knight. I just can't keep up. There's just too much content."

"And then of course like Iger was saying, there's a question of how much content can you produce at quality. To me the difference between Phase 4 and Phases 1 through 3 is fundamentally something very simple, which is you could even be watching 'Infinity War' without having seen the prior X number of movies."

Guggenheim went on to reference the self-contained nature of the films from Phase 1 to Phase 3, which also simultaneously built towards the climactic showdown with Thanos.

"'Winter Soldier' was its own movie with a beginning, middle, and end. And yet, that movie set the foundation for things that, you know it didn't deal with Infinity Stones, but it did deal with Hydra and SHEILD and Steve Rogers' relationship with the government and the Winter Soldier. There were alot of pieces. And same thing with 'Black Panther.' 'Black Panther' works great as a movie beginning, middle, and end, even though it's setting up this whole world of Wakanda that figures very large in 'Infinity War."

Do you agree with what the creator of Arrow is saying? Let us know in the comment section below.

Marvel Studios' SDCC Plans Revealed As Disney Allegedly Faces 1.1TB Hack Which Includes Intel On Future Movies
Related:

Marvel Studios' SDCC Plans Revealed As Disney Allegedly Faces 1.1TB Hack Which Includes Intel On Future Movies

D23 Schedule Confirms Plans For Marvel Animation Panel...But There's No Mention Of Marvel Studios
Recommended For You:

D23 Schedule Confirms Plans For Marvel Animation Panel...But There's No Mention Of Marvel Studios

DISCLAIMER: ComicBookMovie.com is protected under the DMCA (Digital Millenium Copyright Act) and... [MORE]

ComicBookMovie.com, and/or the user who contributed this post, may earn commissions or revenue through clicks or purchases made through any third-party links contained within the content above.

1 2
philinterrupted
philinterrupted - 7/26/2023, 8:55 AM
Wow, watch out for this hot take.

Has he been in a coma?
bobevanz
bobevanz - 7/26/2023, 10:38 AM
@philinterrupted - What a $200 million dollar budget gets you
VictorAlonzo
VictorAlonzo - 7/26/2023, 8:56 AM
PartyKiller
PartyKiller - 7/26/2023, 9:01 AM
The MCU was a popular series that lost all of it's most popular stars and characters. The stars brought the interest. They made people care about movies like Ant-Man just because it is part of the series. But after they left, no one to carry Ant-Man. Will be interesting to see if Marvel's desperate cameo moves can save The Marvels and Captain America Too.
Shivermetimbers
Shivermetimbers - 7/26/2023, 10:40 AM
@PartyKiller - Nah, Chris Evan and Chris Hemsworth were NOT stars when their movies came out, Robert Downey was a "star" but not a draw at the time. People came out for these movies because it was awesome to see well made movies about these heroes we had never seen done right in live action. Then they became stars and the draw to continue their stories was still there. Now that we lost some of the main characters, the novelty of the movies has also worn off and they have been adding crap characters. There are still some good ones, but I don't think that star power is Marvels problem. Unless by stars you just mean the main characters of iron man, captain america, and black widow themselves.
mastakilla39
mastakilla39 - 7/26/2023, 11:07 AM
@PartyKiller - MCU still has stars. all phase 4 and 5 introduced and carried over stars. Since they aren't forcing connective films or telling you who matters its just irking the audience. People are to use to being spoon fed a goal. I don't think the problem is not having any stars, its having too many.

But that is the goal of the MCU. The idea of the next avengers film is supposed to be random, it can be 3 random members from movies and tv show.

Also they gotta stop giving us average to shit film/tv shows too.
PartyKiller
PartyKiller - 7/31/2023, 9:16 AM
@Shivermetimbers - The early movies were not mega hits. Marvel had great actor/character combos. And they lost the stars of the MCU and replaced them with actor/characters that are not liked enough to be box office draws.

It was like The Walking Dead. The series had great actor/character combos and wasted the ones that viewers cared to follow. They replaced them with others that never became popular. The series' popularity died.

The MCU is dead. Not only have they lost their attractions, trash like Secret Invasion has done serious damage to what was left.
NoAssemblyReqd
NoAssemblyReqd - 7/26/2023, 9:01 AM
I don’t disagree. I think Kevin Feige got his arm twisted by Disney: “Hey, we need shows to fill this new streaming service. What ya got?”

I’m not saying the shows we have got are bad — but some could have worked better as short one-shots or perhaps even as two hour specials.
Shivermetimbers
Shivermetimbers - 7/26/2023, 10:43 AM
@NoAssemblyReqd - True. Its just too bad that the damage continues to be done. I feel like they should have pulled a DC move and cancelled Echo and Agatha to get the tax savings and cut the fat. Continuing to put out this kind of D list character stuff just further waters down the brand. MArvel is in a weird spot.
FireandBlood
FireandBlood - 7/26/2023, 9:01 AM
We don’t need to hear a GODDAMN THING from you mf

FireandBlood
FireandBlood - 7/26/2023, 9:02 AM
@PlusUltra - But he’s right
oldnoname
oldnoname - 7/26/2023, 9:48 AM
@PlusUltra - agreed on both counts lol
slickrickdesigns
slickrickdesigns - 7/26/2023, 9:06 AM
Well you’re like 7 years behind everyone else who’s said the same thing.
Glad we got that advice from the guy responsible for the CWverse.
AllsGood
AllsGood - 7/26/2023, 9:13 AM
Has great has Captain America: The Winter Soldier (2014) was it wasn't a huge box office draw. Compared to a lot of other Marvel Studios movies

DOMESTIC = $259,766,572

INTERNATIONAL = $454,654,931

WORLDWIDE = $714,421,503

philinterrupted
philinterrupted - 7/26/2023, 9:24 AM
@AllsGood - box office isn’t the be all end all. Cut it out with quoting these numbers.
bobevanz
bobevanz - 7/26/2023, 10:10 AM
@AllsGood - this is more important
Alien time!
https://www.youtube.com/live/KQ7Dw-739VY?feature=share
AllsGood
AllsGood - 7/26/2023, 10:19 AM
@bobevanz - No watch.

bobevanz
bobevanz - 7/26/2023, 10:40 AM
@AllsGood - The strongest MCU character


What a $200 million dollar budget gets you
Vigor
Vigor - 7/26/2023, 10:51 AM
@bobevanz - damn is that a spoiler for the finale?
I'm not watching it til after work 😑

Please 🙏🏾 no more
AllsGood
AllsGood - 7/26/2023, 11:02 AM
@bobevanz - Actually Vigor is right that's a Huge Spoiler. I haven't even seen the show yet.

MarkJulian this is a huge Spoiler.

Vigor
Vigor - 7/26/2023, 9:29 AM
"Winter Soldier' was its own movie with a beginning, middle, and end. And yet, that movie set the foundation for things that, you know it didn't deal with Infinity Stones, but it did deal with Hydra and SHEILD and Steve Rogers' relationship with the government and the Winter Soldier. There were alot of pieces. And same thing with 'Black Panther.' 'Black Panther' works great as a movie beginning, middle, and end, even though it's setting up this whole world of Wakanda that figures very large in 'Infinity War"


Yes all true. But also we haven't seen the full tapestry yet. Secret invasion is its own thing. (Just like winter soldier was) . But it may figure very large in Kang Dynasty or Secret wars too.

I see the criticism. But a voice inside me cringes when I know the full painting isn't complete yet. That's like going back and complaining about guardians of the galaxy when it came out because it has nothing to do with Earth. While the guardians were VERY instrumental in the conflict against thanos in Infinity War and Endgame.

I'll question. I'll comment. I'll wonder. But I won't judge until the multiverse saga is complete

His other comment about too much content is spot on though. My wife lost interest because there's just so much. And that was my marvel buddy for years !
Mugens
Mugens - 7/26/2023, 10:43 AM
@Vigor - Have to agree with everything you said, except the too much content bit, but I know I'm in the minority about that. I find it strange that someone who claims to be a Marvel nerd as Guggenheim states he is, is unable to keep up with what has been going on with the films and TV shows. But again, maybe it's just me.
Vigor
Vigor - 7/26/2023, 10:50 AM
@Mugens - I guess it depends on who you are. For me personally it's just the right amount of content. The wait between she hulk and secret invasion sucked! I liked when we had shows back to back like falcon, wandavision, loki, etc

But for more casuals, I can understand the too much content criticism a bit
Mugens
Mugens - 7/26/2023, 1:59 PM
@Vigor - Pretty much in agreement with everything you stated.
dagenspear
dagenspear - 7/26/2023, 2:39 PM
@Vigor - These things have to be well done too. And I'd argue a majority aren't well done.
TheIronDuck
TheIronDuck - 7/26/2023, 2:45 PM
@Vigor - It's so refreshing to see someone make the Tapestry argument. In this case The analogy works better if we replace a Tapastry with a Jigsaw Puzzle.

I want better quality control on individual projects as much as everyone else but I feel like a lot of the frustration seems to stem from a large portion of the audience not seeing the picture on the Box yet. I've read all the comic books the MCU is pulling the lore for this Saga from. The comic books are the picture on the box. That perspective allowed me to know what this is building towards in the first half of phase 4 long before they gave us the Name of the puzzle.

If Marvel reduces quantity by cutting content the build upto to Secret Wars will ironically be rushed and the completed Multiverse Saga jigsaw puzzle will be missing too many pieces to provide a satisfying experience.
Unfortunately reducing the quantity without reducing the content would put Secret Wars in 2029 and nobody has the patience for that. Plus, actors age unlike their comic book counterparts.

There was a time in late 2019 when Kevin Feige had an internal outline for the MCU that would have placed Secret Wars in 2024 and the end of the 3rd Saga in 2029 based on a steady but reasonable rate of content release. The rush to catch up after covid in late 2021 overwhelmed the general audience, created a logjam in VFX and post production that we are still experiencing today but were starting to come out of before the current production stoppage set them back again.

In my Mind the best case scenario is in the absence of Fall television people who got overwhelmed use the time to catch up. The Strikes end in late September Early October and we get a schedule as follows.

The remainder of 2023 unchanged
Winter 2024 IronHeart
February 2024 Madame Web
Spring 2024 Agatha Coven of Chaos
May 2024 Spider-Man: Beyond the Spider-verse
Summer 2024 X-men 97 Season 1/What if... Season 2
July 2024 Deadpool 3
Fall 2024 Daredevil: Born Again Part 1
October 2024 Venom 3
November/December 2024 Captain America: Brave New World

Winter 2025 Wonderman
February 2025 Thunderbolts
Spring 2025 Daredevil: Born Again Part 2
May 2025 Fantastic 4
Summer 2025 X-men 97 Season 2/ Spider-Man: Freshman Year
July 2025 Spider-Man 4
Fall 2025 Vision Quest/Marvel Zombies season 1
October/November 2025 Blade

Winter 2026 Young Avengers
February 2026 Armour Wars
Spring 2026 Nova
May 2026 Avengers: Kang Dynasty
Summer 2026 X-men 97 Season 3/Spider-Man: Sophomore Year
July 2026 Untitled Shang-chi 2
Fall 2026 The Illuminati(earth 616/99999)/Marvel Zombies Season 2
November 2026 The Uncanny X-men(New Actors in their own Universe)

Winter 2027 Untitled The Black Knight or Hercules Disney+ Series
February 2027 Eternals 2
Spring 2027 Untitled The Black Knight or Hercules Disney+ Series
May 2027 Avengers: Secret Wars part 1(The Final Incursion earth 616/99999 Vs The New Uncanny X-men)
Summer 2027 Untitled street level Disney+ Series(Secretly set on Battleworld)/What if.. Season 3(highlighting various regions of Battleworld)
July 2027 Nothing
Fall 2027 X-men 97 Special Presentation(set on Battleworld)/Spider-man: Junior Year(set on Battleworld)/Marvel Zombies(set on Battleworld)
November 2027 Avengers: Secret Wars part 2(Battleworld)

2028+ 3rd Saga/phase 7(pure speculation/wishful thinking)

Winter 2028 various Special Presentations highlighting post Battlworld status quo.
February 2028 Miles Morales Live action Spider-Man
Spring More Special Presentations
May 2028 untitled Fantastic 4 2
summer 2028 X-men 97 Season 4/Spider-Man: Senior Year
July 2028 The Uncanny X-men 2
Fall 2028 Untitled Black Widow(Yelena) Disney+ Series
November 2028 Untitled Hulk movie

Winter 2029 untitled Deadpool Disney+ Series
February 2029 Untitled Black Panther 3(Adult T'challa Jr)
Spring 2029 Untitled Cosmic centric Disney+ seriea
May 2029 Untitled Doctor Strange 3
Summer 2029 New Marvel Animation Disney+ Series.
July 2029 Untitled Thor 5
Fall 2029 Untitled Horror Centric Disney+ Series
November 2029 Untitled Thunderbolts 2

The worst case scenario would be if the strikes last the rest of the year deadpool 3 comes out November/December 2024 the whole calandar gets pushed another year, the Disney+ slate gets cut in half. Secret Wars is a lazy rushed Dumpster fire and they introduce mutants as a new present day concept without allowing for a deeper history.
Absolutely Nobody Wants that.






Vigor
Vigor - 7/26/2023, 3:20 PM
@TheIronDuck - I like your road map!
I'm glad you understand what I'm putting out. And yes the pandemic and now strike have absolutely thrown a monkey wrench into the machine. I'm sure this was all supposed to flow better. Maybe the there's pressure from the top to output more for disney+, but a lot of the plot simply hasn't had the time to connect

People criticized civil war for not having enough heroes. Now we finally will have enough heroes (thanks for Fox assets and borrowing some spidermen from Sony) for an epic battle, and people complain 😔
TheIronDuck
TheIronDuck - 7/26/2023, 3:37 PM
@Vigor - I honestly don't see how you cut any of that roadmap and have Secret Wars be anything but a shallow cameofest of unestablished characters and random variants. Let alone a properly integrated X-Men.
TMW1987ProudProWrestlingFan
TMW1987ProudProWrestlingFan - 7/27/2023, 8:48 AM
@TheIronDuck - You've now just aged me to 41 MF'er with that Thunderbolts 2 release idea, Ha, Ha!

Great post though & nice ideas of works for future releases.
TyrantBossMedia
TyrantBossMedia - 7/26/2023, 9:33 AM
I’ve been saying that here for years. They need to focus on quality not quantity.
AllsGood
AllsGood - 7/26/2023, 9:38 AM
Do you agree with what the creator of Arrow is saying?

TheHumanSpider2
TheHumanSpider2 - 7/26/2023, 9:39 AM
No shit, baldie
OrgasmicPotatoe
OrgasmicPotatoe - 7/26/2023, 9:53 AM
Anyone with a functioning brain could have figured that out. Disney wanted to furnish their brand new streaming service and sacrificed Marvel and Star Wars to the Disney+ altar because they thought these IPs were simply money-printing machines.

Turns out abuse isn't profitable in the long run. Total shocker.
oldnoname
oldnoname - 7/26/2023, 9:56 AM
I wonder what planning meetings at marvel even sound like at this point. I wonder what they sounded like after endgame was in production.
Ha1frican
Ha1frican - 7/26/2023, 10:05 AM
Pot, meet kettle.
dancingmonkey08
dancingmonkey08 - 7/26/2023, 12:47 PM
@Ha1frican - goddamn this, with every new series the Arrowverse created, the quality got worse and worse with each new season...because they were creating so many shows...
RockBottom
RockBottom - 7/26/2023, 10:28 AM
He’s clearly high.
TheVisionary25
TheVisionary25 - 7/26/2023, 10:31 AM
The too much content thing is fair and understandable.

However , I have never understood this thing that you could watch Infinity War without having seen the prior x number of movies…

Sure you could watch it but what will you get out of it other than just maybe being entertained?

you’ll certainly get more out of it if you have seen the prior stuff and that’s the same case I feel with Phase 4 aswell imo

Also , I know it’s too much to ask for people on this site and the internet but how about we judge after we have seen the completed picture when this Multiverse Saga is over…

I know it seems disjointed now to an extent with us being introduced to many new characters , dealing with post EG fallout aswell as setting up this new overarching story and Big Bad but let’s see how it comes together or not shall we?.
CurlyBill
CurlyBill - 7/26/2023, 10:32 AM
99OPTIMISTPRIME
99OPTIMISTPRIME - 7/26/2023, 10:33 AM
He likely hasn't seen Moon Knight yet, because like me, he has no desire to.🤣 You can still qualify as a Marvel or DC fan, without having to consume every single project that's put out. My issue with Marvel, is more about wanting them to prioritize the right characters, and getting the X-Men/Fantastic Four rebooted. They've moved a bit slower, than I would've liked.
1 2

Please log in to post comments.

Don't have an account?
Please Register.

View Recorder