Should we really let the Joker die?

Should we really let the Joker die?

Heath Ledger's portrayal of the Clown Prince of Crime is not only the reason I started to pay attention to the Nolan series, but the reason I delved deeper into the Batman mythology itself. Should we deny his presence in the upcoming TDKR because Ledger is no longer with us?

Editorial Opinion
By Redhood88 - Feb 02, 2011 08:02 AM EST
Filed Under: Batman

As I have already made clear, the respect and admiration I have for Ledger's phenomenal performance is immense. I also understand Nolan's reasoning for leaving the character be. Obviously, actually having been close to Ledger, he feels that the role should be cemented in time and not attempted to be duplicated.

But I can't shake the part of me that just wants to see this character developed further. I'm not even saying that he needs to be featured largely. With Bane in the mix there is an opportunity to introduce more to the trilogy. However, I would love to see the Joker in Arkham, biding his time and a certain Dr. Quinzel falling MADLY in love with him.

Would it not therefore be more of a celebration of Ledger's success to continue his legacy in TDKR?

We've all noticed the resemblance bore between Ledger and Levitt. There's a lot you can do to maintain continuity when replacing a character that wears a lot of make-up and will probably spend most of his screen time in a dimly lit cell. And Levitt is a fine actor who I'm sure would make a huge effort to fill Joker's very large shoes.

Unfortunately, I doubt my plea will be heard. As many of you have commented on other articles, Nolan has said he won't use Joker and therefore almost definitely won't. But a man can dream.

In this case, my guess is Levitt is on to play Dick Grayson. Maybe even make a costumed appearance as Nightwing. I say that simply because I don't see how the Robin costume will fit in. Perhaps it's seen as in Batman Forever when the flying Grayson's wore the red top and tights (please don't hurt me for mentioning Batman Forever), Grayson's get killed and Nightwing "Rises".

Hmm...

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Exiles
Exiles - 2/2/2011, 8:38 AM
No the joker shouldn't die, YES ledger was [frick]ing amazing, one hell of actor proved all the idot fan boys wrong but I don't think the joker should be killed off. Even a small cameos good enough for me, doubts its going to happen and I am pretty sure even though we probably won't see the joker we'll hear his name pop quite alot after all the guy brought the city to its knees.

JGL doesn't necessarily have to be nightwing or dick grayson though he would pretty good for a older version. He could easily play Jean Paul Valley the dude that actuallly replaced batman when bane broke his back. Who ever he's playing it should be more then a cameo
TesDaGreat
TesDaGreat - 2/2/2011, 10:33 AM
ScottPilgrim
ScottPilgrim - 2/2/2011, 11:37 AM
No of course the Joker shouldn't be left to die.

Some may say that you cannot replace a good actor on an iconic role. To that I say Dr Who. Everyone said David Tennant was irreplaceable but Matt Smith came along and gave a performance equal if not better than Tennant's.

The problem occurs with Continuity in Nolan's universe. If say Joseph Gordon-Levitt was to portray the Joker, yes he looks like Ledger but it may seem disrespectful to Ledgers memory. But also Ledger made such an impact there would be little room for Levitt to make the character his own.

Personally I would like to see the Joker return, as a consultant whilst he is incarcerated in Arkham.

But I'd also like to see Mark Hamill like Joker at some point, but that could wait until someone else wants to take on the Batman franchise.
BIGBMH
BIGBMH - 2/2/2011, 11:40 AM
I agree, I thought that Joker should have been brought back for TDKR.
Click here for my article on the subject!


As for bringing in Dick Grayson, I'd really love to see it done, but I'd rather have no Dick Grayson than have it done with him starting off as an adult. Ideally, I would have it done properly with him as a kid.
PaulRom
PaulRom - 2/2/2011, 12:51 PM
I doubt anyone can do as good as Heath did it.
I personally think that in the movie, Nolan should provide some info as to why Joker doesn't appear (maybe he dies in the period between TDK and TDKR?).
Amazo
Amazo - 2/2/2011, 3:09 PM
I love The Joker but we've been there and done it now.Time for other villains to step up.Everything Nolan has done to the mythos in movie form has been to expand the Batman universe.To not over use villains or even Gotham itself as a location.I'd like to see new things and unused characters get their chance.
Heath was Very good but I think his death has caused a kind of idolisation of him that isn't really deserved.I'm sure there are plenty of actors out there who could surprise and impress us with their interpretation of the character in the future.Remember that many were sceptical about Heath until they saw the movie.
In short,leave The Joker in Arkham for now.We don't need to see him.It serves no purpose to the ongoing story of Bruce Wayne (after all it's his trilogy).The Joker played his part.As for retiring the character out of respect to Heath,frack that! And I'm sure Heath would agree :)
Boogie138
Boogie138 - 2/2/2011, 3:15 PM
he may show up, he may not.
i got 1 movie with joker that killed so i am happy
i am getting a movie with bane that i know will kill

that plus scarecrow (my fav batman villian) in two batflicks means i can deal with joker left unfeatured in bat3. would i like more joker? hell yes and hell no.
if unused footage then yes, if recast then no. i don't want to see a actor forced to perform like another actor did for sake of continuity. its not fair to the man who will fill heaths shoes, and we would all just nit-pick anyway.

and no one dare bring up the dawes switch. lazy eye kattie didn't leave enough of an impression for me to be commenting on that recasting. maggie was a much better fit.
Amazo
Amazo - 2/2/2011, 3:53 PM
Just because some people want to see him does not give the film makers any reason that they should use him.
Denn1s
Denn1s - 2/2/2011, 3:57 PM
it would be unfair for levitt to portray ledger in TDKR, just like routh portrayed reeve in returns. but i desperately want even a cameo from the joker...
Unreal2k9
Unreal2k9 - 2/2/2011, 4:49 PM
Well I completely understand why Nolan wouldn't want to recast The Joker. But I don't believe that recasting The Joker is in any way disrespectful to Heath Ledger. Also, to not recast The Joker would take a lot away from these films as a trilogy. Nolan stated that Heath's Joker was going to be a big part of the sequel and its obvious in "The Dark Knight" that Joker was going to be in the sequel in a big way. Since TDK and TDKR was meant to have The Joker, I think it will make TDKR feel off. Much like how Spider-man 3 felt off since Venom really wasn't supposed to be in the movie.
Amazo
Amazo - 2/2/2011, 4:56 PM
@Unreal
Spider-man3 suffered from too many characters/origins in a convoluted plot(not the only reason it sucked).Also the reason that I'm worried for The Avengers movie.Not enough lines or plot to go around.
I don't believe that Nolan would make a rudimentary mistake like over casting a plot.I think the movie would feel even more 'off' if it wasted plot time rehashing characters that need not be there :)
handsomedevil0228
handsomedevil0228 - 2/2/2011, 5:16 PM
i could see a nightwing portrayal, he's got the lanky body and black hair, he won't be a robin because bale said he'd be out if they brought in a robin. I don't think they should kill of the joker, or have JGL portray the joker, nolan said he wouldnt want anybody besides ledger to play the joker, so maybe they just have some dialogue in the movie to end the joker problem, maybe having him rotting in arkham.
Unreal2k9
Unreal2k9 - 2/2/2011, 5:16 PM
@Spartan76
Your pretty much right about Spider-man 3 but for me whenever Eddie Brock/Venom was on screen it just felt very unneeded. Nolan obviously had a plan with The Joker for TDKR and I don't want the story suffering because Nolan changed a lot stuff around because he doesn't want disrespect Heath Ledger.
Amazo
Amazo - 2/2/2011, 5:38 PM
@Unreal
He wrote the story and script for TDKR long after Ledgers death.He's been quoted as saying that he hadn't started work on the story until a few months ago(although Goyer and his bro were feeling things out for it before he started to get really involved).And why would he prep a story for a third installment months before he even came round to the notion of a second sequel? He's famed for not touching a project whilst he already has one on the go.In fact he's still working on the script as we speak so I don't think there'll be any gaping Joker shaped holes in the story mate.
Unreal2k9
Unreal2k9 - 2/2/2011, 6:02 PM
@Spartan76
Pretty much everybody, including Nolan, knew that there was going to be a sequel to TDK even before TDK came out. It might not have been official, but it was pretty much guaranteed. One of the best qualities a filmmaker can have is to know how to plan ahead. It might not have been on paper, but Nolan definitely had some ideas for The Joker in TDKR. I still think TDKR will be a great movie but I think it loses a lot of its continuity without The Joker. Although it was a small scene, the Scarecrow cameo in TDK was one of the highlights of the film for me. But oh well. I have faith in Nolan.
Amazo
Amazo - 2/2/2011, 6:34 PM
@Unreal
I'd have loved to see Heath return but I honestly think it would have been unecessary.And I don't remember hearing anything about a third Batmovie other than wishful thinking,until long after TDK.The opposite tbh.But hey,like you mate,I truly trust Nolan is gonna deliver.Frack Star Wars and The Rings mate,THIS IS THE ONLY TRILOGY NOW!!!!!
NeoBaggins
NeoBaggins - 2/2/2011, 7:07 PM
Denn1s, Roth portrayed SUPERMAN in SUPERMAN RETURNS. Superman, like the Joker, are characters.
yardbird88
yardbird88 - 2/2/2011, 8:36 PM
Robin Williams = Hugo Strange!

marvelguy
marvelguy - 2/2/2011, 9:31 PM
I think if Nolan does more Bat films, then he might return to the Joker--if only in shadow. I believe if he is to be enshrouded, the temptation to use audio outtakes is too heavy. No one wants to "Marlon Brando" up Ledger. I still watch DK with amazement at how creepy he is. The video of the fake Batman is chilling!

I am about midway in agreement with you. Your case is well stated.
yardbird88
yardbird88 - 2/3/2011, 1:03 AM
Denn1s
Denn1s - 2/3/2011, 12:20 PM
Neo@ yeah i totally agree man. i said it because everyone in here seems to think that, because he was overshadowed by reeve, and that will happen if they recast the joker. routh was a great superman to me but everyone keeps saying that he tried to play him like reeve and didn't bring much to the character.
MrReese
MrReese - 2/3/2011, 4:11 PM
i dont think it should die but reintroduced,Levitt might look the part but i dont really see him bringing heaths joker back like the way he licked his lip n was just sooo dark

@yardbird88 hell yea Williams would be a great Hugo
CraniumCrusher
CraniumCrusher - 2/6/2011, 12:01 AM
The Joker must die! He has done enough damage already. I bet Batman's son or somebody else finishes the Joker off for good in the future. He should get blown up by Harley.
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