The Dark Knight Rises ending discussion *UPDATED*

I'm the only cbm junkie in my town so I don't have people to discuss the movie with. *SPOILERS* (of course)
Update: we might as well talk about the whole movie rather than the ending.

Editorial Opinion
By HxCorbett - Jul 22, 2012 11:07 PM EST
Filed Under: Batman
Source: The Dark Knight Rises

Before I get into the good stuff this is my first editorial/article.
I've been a cbm.com reader for quite a few years but have never contributed.

don't bash please, I'm just giving an opinion.


now I've talked to a few light cbm fans and they believe B-Man, or rather, Bruce Wayne, to be indeed alive at the end of the film.

I maybe a little late to the discussion party but I seem to be the only one that firmly believes that he is dead.

I've seen the movie once, but I've seen the ending scene with the bomb on youtube many times, for analysis.

I've had people tell me "he fixed the autopilot, they told Lucius that"
I refuse to believe that Batman made it out in time.
It was said that the bomb had a range of 6 miles.

"But Batman jumped out and landed on the island you see when he's flying out to the ocean!"

The movie clearly shows Batman's face literally (if not, 2 shots after) the countdown reaches like :02 or something.
He is still in The Bat.
He is dead.

I've seen some people say that he survived because he gave Blake coordinates to the Batcave, and Gordon a new Bat Signal.

This is just my theory but Bruce has never wanted to be Batman since TDK, when he wanted to reveal himself, if I recall correctly.

Maybe Bruce had planned to hand the reigns to Blake after all of their encounters.

And the Alfred scene at the end, I don't even have to explain.
He was fantasizing.

If this editorial is cluttered and put together terribly, some constructive criticism would be so great.

*UPDATE*

I actually want to talk about the whole movie now.

What were your favorite scenes?
Who stole the show in your opinion?
Favorite lines?
Anything that bugged you about the movie?

My favorite scenes were anything with Bane like, shouting.
I seriously cannot understand him when he is talking normally, but when he's yelling, like in front of the city hall with the Harvey Dent speech, it was fantastic. The football scene: great. When he breaks the Bat: phenomenal.
"the shadows betray you because it belongs to me."
"AH YES! I was wondering which would break first! Your spirit, or your body!"
And the line where he says "we are all initiated, aren't we, Bruce?" and something about betraying them reminds me of Darth Vader for some reason too.

Anne Hathaway's portrayal of Selina Kyle was so great. She captured everything that in my mind thought that Kyle would be.
Michael Caine brought me to tears with that line during Wayne's funeral.
But then again, who didn't cry? :) haha.

Any of those one liner's Bane had were my favorites. Like:
"This is a stock market, there's no money to steal!" or something like that and Bane goes, "Then why are you people here?" lolol I don't know why but I thought it was awesome.

A lot of things bugged me too.
The way Bane died. EWWWW that's all I have to say.
No reference to Joker. Really? He was all over the TV's and killed Commissioner Loeb (I think) and almost killed two boatfuls of citizens and they just forgot about him? damn.
ROBIN. biggest thing that bugged me.
not necessarily because it's Nolan's version, which is fine for me, but because it's his REAL NAME. Like what the fvck.
ROBIN BLAKE. REALLY?
get out of here man.

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PYM90
PYM90 - 7/22/2012, 11:24 PM
Agreed!
xcrementus
xcrementus - 7/22/2012, 11:27 PM
But Alfred had zero contact with Selina, besides her being a maid at the start. Why would he fantasize her being with Bruce?
PS I wish that was the true ending...cus Bruce being alive and not telling Alfred would be a complete and total dick move.
HxCorbett
HxCorbett - 7/22/2012, 11:33 PM
@xcrementus
damn. haha I didn't think about that.
and I agree. Having someone be there for you literally your whole life and not even give a hint that you're alive and well?

I think it would've been a better ending if Bruce had just died. The trilogy was too dark to have a hunky dory happy ending to me.
Kwabena
Kwabena - 7/23/2012, 12:13 AM
The autopilot problem was mentioned 3x in the film, so to have it fixed by Bruce and NOT have it save him would not make any sense. Also the knowing look on Fox's face at hearing it was fixed confirmed Bruce was alive.

Plus he fixed the Batsignal before he left Gotham for good; had a will so that the house would go to orphans; except that the Batcave would not be touched so that could be left to Blake.

These are actions of a man who planned and executed these things after he survived, because he did not know he would have to fly the bomb out beforehand.

As for the cafe scene, Selina is wearing his mother's pearls. Given how she died, that's as good as an engagement ring in my book. And Alfred's dream for Bruce having a life after Batman comes true as he had hoped. Spinning top not needed.
HxCorbett
HxCorbett - 7/23/2012, 12:13 AM
@jollem I remember that as well now that i think about it.
vincenzosz
vincenzosz - 7/23/2012, 12:18 AM
I think it was a really good movie, with a FANTASTIC ending!
It all really happened. Kwabena is right, it all wrapped up nicely.

How GREAT was that Talia twist at the end! I loved it. She denied in interviews that she played Talia and thats great because I did NOT see that coming. AWESOME!
HxCorbett
HxCorbett - 7/23/2012, 12:20 AM
I knew she'd be Talia, but the way the whole production team and actors kept it a secret was so cool. hahaha.

Bane2099
Bane2099 - 7/23/2012, 12:32 AM
Alfred didn't imagine Bruce, as was said before, why would Alfred imagine Bruce with Selina?, even if he did see her on the computer screen for a few seconds, why choose her for ur " fantasy " of being the woman with Bruce and his now found happiness and freedom?...I say Bruce used the program she wanted from Daggett that he later offered her on himself and Selina so they can both have a clean break and live a normal life.

As for the whole bomb scene and showing the shot of Batman before the bomb goes off, heres an explanation i found:

When Batman lifted the bomb using The Bat, he brought it low to the ground at first, it looked a bit like the bomb was dragging along the street, just before the plane elevated to go over that tall building. He flew low for a bit because he didn't want to eject at the very top in the air, because people would see that. He set up the autopilot, took a deep breath, and jumped out. That's why he set The Bat at low altitude, so he could eject himself unhurt. The shot of him in the cockpit was when he was still over land, just before ejecting out.

As much of a dick move it might of been on Bruce's part making Alfred think he was dead, u can see Alfred was happy to see he was alive and stuck his guns about not approaching or speaking to eachother, just give eachother a nod and a smile and know everything turned out for the best for both of them.
HxCorbett
HxCorbett - 7/23/2012, 12:37 AM
I see where your autopilot explanation would work, but how would he get six miles away from that bomb in under 5 seconds?
Gamma022
Gamma022 - 7/23/2012, 2:22 AM
"Death.....By Exile"
Oh how I love Cillian Murphy
KingEmperor
KingEmperor - 7/23/2012, 2:30 AM
@Bane2099

You make valid points. Also, I didn't think that there was any dick move on Bruce's part by not telling Alfred that he's alive. That's why Bruce went to the cafe in Paris. So Alfred will see him there and reassure him that he's alive.
kong
kong - 7/23/2012, 3:24 AM
Alfred couldn't visualize her because he only saw her once as a housemaid and wouldn't place her with Bruce. If he was imagining the person he would put Bruce with would be a whole new person or Rachel Dawes
Kalel219
Kalel219 - 7/23/2012, 3:31 AM
Am I the only one who thought Bruce didn't tell Alfred as a way of putting it all behind him? Not to hurt Alfred but to go all out with a clean slate.
hosefacethor
hosefacethor - 7/23/2012, 3:39 AM
Does anyone think that maybe Nolan's batman could work for a justice league movie. The superman trailer seemed to be more in the tone of Nolan's dark knight.

- I want to post an editorial why, I just don't know how. Can some one tell me how
MoonDoggyX
MoonDoggyX - 7/23/2012, 5:27 AM
I loved the ending. Source material aside, it was the perfect ending for nolan's batman and fit in perfectly with the moral and emotional theme of the movie.

Bruce could not make out of the pit as long as he was embracing death. Not until he feared death and developed a will to live could he make the jump. I believe that was a metaphor for bruce climbig out of all of the pain and despare caused by the tragic events in his past and embracing life. Which is exactly what alferd wished for him.

I know nolan tried to kind of leave it up in the air, but you realize that if bruce did indeed die he wouldkve commited suicide??? How would that have made any sense? Bruce is alive. Nolan made it a point to show everyone bruce cared about as many have mentioned above. Also, the movie showed everyone at the end. The showed fox return to running wayncorp... Gordon return to watching over the city... Blake discovering the cave... Alfred goes to europe... But the only wrap up salina's story by showing her with bruce, hmmmm...
mydogduke
mydogduke - 7/23/2012, 6:40 AM
I will probably not see this movie in theaters, and have already read numerous reviews and the plot description with spoilers....I have a few questions about the movie and would appreciate any detailed descriptions about certain scenes. Like I said, I'll probably wait for the Blu-Ray release but would like to get some questions answered, if you would help:

1. in the hospital scene with Gordon wounded, I assume he's talking to Bruce Wayne, but is Bruce wearing any sort of disguise, or is he just talking "face to face" as Bruce Wayne? I always thought he was wearing a disguise of some sort, but appreciate clarification

2. in the trailers where they show Bane punching at the camera (with out of focus effect) who is he punching? the lights in the background make me think he's in the prison with Bruce, so is he punching Bruce? if so....

3. did Bane visit Bruce in the prison? is so, why? did he go back to check on Bruce, or just torment him some more?

4. I thought I read that Bane's origins are explained; do they explain how he got scarred and why he wears the mask? what was that scene like?

5. ok, may be silly question, and I've seen similar explained, but how does Bruce go from being broken to thrown in the prison / pit? is this ever explained or shown, or is it up to the viewer to accept that he was put on a plane or something and flown to wherever the prison was supposed to be? I saw the back-breaking clip on youtube and saw the fight, and after he is broken, I see two thugs pick him up and carry him away....is there anything else to that scene?

6. speaking of broken....how is his cowl removed so easily? I assume it cracked or was seriously damaged by the beating he took from Bane, but do they show his cowl damaged during the fight? the clarity of the clip I saw wasn't that clear so I couldn't see how the cowl came off, but I assume it's because of being hit or something? did Bane just force it off, or was it already battle damaged to the point that it was cracked and falling off anyway?

thanks for taking the time to read my questions, like I said, I won't see this in the theaters anytime soon, so I don't mind the answers to my questions and would greatly appreciate them!
RunDTC
RunDTC - 7/23/2012, 7:10 AM
^dude, just go see the movie.
mydogduke
mydogduke - 7/23/2012, 7:21 AM
^dude, I would "just go see the movie" but perhaps you've heard about the shooting that took place here in CO this weekend? kind of makes you NOT want to go to a theater anytime soon, you know? That theater is less than 10 minutes from where I live, so you might, just might---understand my not wanting to go to a theater right now, right?
Tainted87
Tainted87 - 7/23/2012, 7:34 AM
mydogduke,
I would usually be opposed to answering these questions for you, but IMO, the movie sucked.

1.
He is disguised through a ski-mask, wearing a dress-suit

2.
Until the cops vs crooks battle, Bane only PUNCHES Batman.

3.
He only delivers him to the prison, where he tells him his intentions.

4.
The scene was great, until they give the twist that it was Talia, not Bane who escaped from the prison as a child, and Bane was the one who helped her. He covered her escape and was left a bloodied mess. The mask gives him an anesthetic, and seems to have a built-in microphone.

5.
Immediately after the curb-stomp battle in the sewers, Bruce is taken to the pit. The prison exterior was filmed in India, but the chanting is Moroccan. No plane, he's just being dragged by two mooks.

6.
Bane literally curb-stomps Batman's cowl, causing it to crack and tighten around his head... covering his eyes. After Bane has performed his coup de grace, he grabs half of the cowl, and breaks it off.
MoonDoggyX
MoonDoggyX - 7/23/2012, 8:10 AM
...as far as the rest of the movie, I only have 2 gripes...

1) How the hell did Bruce get back to gotham(From Moracco)... AND back into the city??? After making a point to show how well sealed off the city is, they should've showed how bruce made it in, especially when the armed forces could not.

2) The fire bat on the bridge. How the hell did he pull that off??? Did he really have time to do that when there is a nuke literally hours from going off? How could he have set that up without being notice...? And ran the gas or whatever right where the commissioner was going to be walking on the ice??? How could he have known that???
svchoudhry
svchoudhry - 7/23/2012, 9:26 AM
Is it me, or did what John Blake said about his parents, kind of similar to the joker talking about his dad?
RunDTC
RunDTC - 7/23/2012, 9:56 AM
@mydogduke: you could've mentioned that in your first comment.
mydogduke
mydogduke - 7/23/2012, 10:52 AM
@rundtc---it's cool. I just wanted to get some answers to some scenes I was curious about and saw that someone answered....but in the teaser (I think the first one) there's a quick shot of Bane punching towards the camera (out of focus shot) and it made me wonder who he was punching at? was he punching at Bruce in the prison? from the image in the teaser, there's a wound on his head above his left eye---was that done from the fight in the sewer, or from the punch in the prison?
Tainted87
Tainted87 - 7/23/2012, 11:01 AM
@mydogduke
It's done in the sewer where Bane literally stomps on Batman's head.
MoonDoggyX
MoonDoggyX - 7/23/2012, 12:10 PM
@Tainted87 - I've seen the movie twice now and to me it looked like bane was punching Batmans cowl when he cracked it...
mydogduke
mydogduke - 7/23/2012, 1:53 PM
in one of the early teasers (maybe the first one) there's a scene of several people rapelling down the well, and there's another shot of several people rapelling into the prison area in another teaser....who were these people? LOS? Bane? and what was going on in those scenes?
ibravosp5
ibravosp5 - 7/23/2012, 7:17 PM
I loved the ending. Robin will be the new hero.
Zuriel
Zuriel - 7/23/2012, 8:18 PM
The people rappelling into the prison was part of a flash back scene involving the League of Shadows and Ra's Al Ghul.
Kwabena
Kwabena - 7/23/2012, 11:04 PM
@CristianCorbett

As far as the autopilot explanation goes, just because we see a shot of Batman's face five seconds before the bomb goes off does not mean he was in the plane. If you recall the Tumbler has a backup escape device -- the Batpod. Therefore, it stands to reason that The Batplane would have a similar escape pod. Remember, Batman took the plane low and just cleared a skyscraper on the way out to sea. I'm thinking he jettisoned either at the height of the building or somewhere over land. I teach film studies and screenwriting and good stories have a beginning that is usually duplicated (to be resolved) at the end. So it's no accident that we would see an escape from a plane at the beginning of the film and have the final scene plot device being an escape from a plane (even if we don't see that escape). Also think about this, in the first screenplay (Begins), Bruce is declared legally dead but is not. And this is exactly what happens in the third film to complete the story arc. Bruce is declared dead (killed by Bane) but is not. That's perfection storytelling.
joekerr93
joekerr93 - 7/23/2012, 11:37 PM
I think the shots of Batman in the Bat were more symbolic than the cafe scene. I think they represented Bruce Wayne's Batman ending, so that Bruce could move on.

Also if Bruce dies, then Alfred and everyone else's efforts to get Bruce to finally move on, were for nothing, and Alfred is lying to himself with his fantasy.

And if Alfred is lying to himself by fantasizing and believing that Bruce survived when he didn't then the whole theme of the movie about Uncovering the Truth was just shattered in the final moments of the movie.

It would also mean that Bruce never completed his character arc in the series if he still, to his death, never move on from his parents death and grew up to live a normal life.

I think Bruce got out earlier, put on the autopilot, and went with Selina to use their CleanSlate to live a new life. And they went to the cafe because Bruce knew that Alfred would go there to look for him.

mydogduke
mydogduke - 7/24/2012, 1:17 PM
last question before I actually go see the movie, but what kind of injuries did Bane receive that made him have to wear the mask?! I see he's got a scar on his neck and maybe burn marks on his head and arms, so can someone please explain how Bane got injured? thanks...
HxCorbett
HxCorbett - 7/24/2012, 3:04 PM
I don't think they addressed the scars on his neck and the burn marks. they just say that he got the shit beat out of him. lol
HxCorbett
HxCorbett - 7/24/2012, 3:07 PM
@kwabena @joekerr93

you both make really good points.
especially the batpod thing.

I was just talking with a friend and he said he vaguely remembers Lucius telling Bruce that his equipment could withstand a nuclear explosion in Batman Begins, so if that's true then Nolan is a complete genius.
samster10001
samster10001 - 7/24/2012, 10:46 PM
Bruce was defenitely alive. Its not a matter of interpretation people. Its clear as effng day that he was alive and had prepared for it all beforehand. Beyond that, trying to rationalize how he could have survived the bomb blast and stuff like this is ridiculous concerning a movie like this. Besides he's the EFFIN BATMAN PEOPLE!!!!!!!
Organa1978
Organa1978 - 7/25/2012, 7:20 PM
Bruce died at the explosion and Alfred was imagining him alive with Selina...that´´s what Alfred chose to see.
Bruce alive and happy.
He did not fake his death,he faked red herrings for the people assume he survived.
HxCorbett
HxCorbett - 7/25/2012, 8:23 PM
@samster10001
how could he have prepared for it beforehand?
he didn't have time.
chelsel9395
chelsel9395 - 7/28/2012, 8:22 AM
You failed to note the missing pearls. Bruce was the last one to have them and not being among his stuff it shows that he must have took them and I highly doubt he took them with the fight Bane.
INFERNO69
INFERNO69 - 8/27/2012, 12:52 PM
You all FORGET... Bruce Wayne told Alfred goodbye when Alfred threatened BW that he would leave if he would go after Bane. Bruce went after Bane one last time anyways BUT did leave a will and took care of all the necessary deeds he had to do just in case Bane would actually finish the job this time around, in which Batman took him out with the help from the beautiful Catwoman.

Batman was a planner and is always prepared, that's why he is the best superhero out there! Flying the bomb was just another obstacle in which he figured he could make it seem that he died just so he could finally retire and live his life. Alfred seeing him at the end was not a fantasy, they saw each other but knew they couldn't talk or even aknowledge each other due to the fact that Batman was "dead." Alfred smiled and knew he was alright and was now gonna "finally" start living his life without the burden of having to protect the people of Gotham.

In doing so, Batman leaves the Batcave to Robin along with all his special gadgets and weapons because he knew he was a fighter and would do justice for Gotham City.
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