THE FLASH: Why Andy Muschietti Blaming Filmgoers For The 2023 Movie Failing Doesn't Add Up

The Flash director Andy Muschietti recently pointed the finger at certain members of the "four quadrants of the audience" for the movie being a failure, but this is why his comments simply don't add up...

Editorial Opinion

By JoshWilding - Jan 13, 2025 09:01 AM EST

Filed Under: The Flash

It took Warner Bros. the better part of a decade to get The Flash up and running. After losing multiple writers and directors, IT helmer Andy Muschietti seemed like a good fit for the job; excitement for the movie also increased when it was revealed to be a loose adaptation of Flashpoint featuring the return of Ben Affleck and Michael Keaton's respective versions of Batman and Supergirl's long-awaited DCEU debut.

Original plans called for the movie to set the stage for Crisis on Infinite Earths, with Affleck's Dark Knight trapped in another reality and Keaton replacing him in the DCEU ahead of the since-scrapped Batgirl movie (Sasha Calle, meanwhile, was going to take Henry Cavill's place). Alas, as regimes changed, so did the ending.

Cavill's Man of Steel was inserted into The Flash's final moments after his return in Black Adam, only to be removed when DC Studios was formed. In fact, the entire thing was then heavily reshot, with that big Crisis tease swapped for a random George Clooney cameo and a badly CG'd tooth falling out of Barry Allen's mouth.

The rest of a movie was a mess too, with abysmal visual effects, a lousy story, and not one but two terrible performances from lead star Ezra Miller (they/them). Oh, and we surely can't forget the fact the actor made headlines upwards of a year before The Flash's release for repeated alleged assaults and grooming of minors. That, combined with a terrible run for DCEU movies resulted in the movie bombing at the box office. Warner Bros. tried everything it could to turn the tide, enlisting ringing endorsements from James Gunn, Tom Cruise, and Stephen King, but none of them could turn the tide and The Flash grossed only $271.4 million worldwide on a budget believed to have ballooned to upwards of $300 million.

In a recent interview, Muschietti said this about why he believes The Flash failed:

"I think failed in the sense that it didn’t appeal to all four quadrants of the audience. When a $200 million movie is made, the studio expects to bring everyone, even your grandmother, to the theater. And in private conversations later on, I learned things like how a lot of people weren’t interested in the Flash as a character. Half of those four quadrants - the two female quadrants - many women didn’t care about Flash as a character. These are things that worked against the movie, and I gradually found out about them. But I’m very happy with the movie, and I highly recommend it."

The filmmaker also blamed Miller's "mental health situation," the "public relations crisis" that followed, and "fatigue with the superhero genre."

What isn't adding up about Muschietti's argument is his belief that "a lot of people weren’t interested in the Flash as a character." While the Scarlet Speedster certainly isn't as well-known as many other DC superheroes, he was also the star of a hugely popular CW TV show which lasted for the better part of a decade. While ratings declined in The Flash's final few years - the norm for many series which perhaps stick around a little too long - it being on air for 9 seasons somewhat dispels the notion that no one is interested (The CW also had a large female audience).

So, yeah, Muschietti's excuse is laughable at best, and dishonest at worst. The Flash failed because it was a bad movie; fans and regular filmgoers alike had lost faith in the DCEU as a franchise and only a truly great movie could restore some of that. The Flash wasn't it. It's not all on Muschietti's shoulders, of course, as a big part of why the movie flopped can be traced back to Justice League helmer Zack Snyder. Miller was a terrible casting choice for Barry Allen and not the right person to lead their own franchise. Jason Momoa wasn't the best fit for Aquaman either but he had enough charisma and star power to turn his first solo outing into a $1 billion hit...Miller did not. Not to get too much into the weeds with fan casts, but go back a decade, and people weren't wrong when they put forward names like Ryan Gosling and Bradley Cooper for the live-action Barry. A B-List character needs an A-List star, not an indie actor with no blockbuster experience.

The audience isn't responsible for The Flash's failings, but Muschietti, Snyder, and Warner Bros. are. Now, DC Studios is "holding a beat" on the character's DCU development, and surely the best option will be to shift the spotlight from Barry Allen to Wally West. For now, the former has been damaged beyond repair. As for Muschietti, he claims to still be in line to direct The Brave and the Bold for DC Studios, a shockingly poor decision from Gunn which doesn't bode well for the DCU's Batman.

THE FLASH Director On Movie's Box Office Failure: It's The Result Of A Mental Health Situation

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THE FLASH: James Gunn Says They're "Holding A Beat" On Developing A New DCU Take On The Scarlet Speedster

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78 Comments

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harryba11zack - 1/13/2025, 9:12 AM

HashTagSwagg - 1/13/2025, 9:13 AM

@harryba11zack -

Vigor - 1/13/2025, 9:16 AM

I thought his reason was surprisingly honest
I don't know anything about four quadrant. Thats some film study statistics mumbo jumbo. And im sure the research and science are sound. I just can't speak to it. And doing it anecdotally makes me no better than climate change deniers. I'm a man of science and facts

But he was truthful about ezras troubles impacting the movie. That's the sole reason I didn't go see it. Also DCEU fatigue to him translates to superhero fatigue. Sony and DCEU muddled the super hero genre so much. Add to that the divisive phase 4 and phase 5 mcu films and audiences were a lot more selective about which movies then went to see

I personally found the flash entertaining. From supergirl to keaton to some fun across pieces.

AnEye - 1/13/2025, 9:27 AM

@Vigor - A four quadrant movie is a movie that appeals to all different age groups.

Male over 25
Male under 25
Female over 25
Female under 25.

Hollywood loves these types of movies because of the outreach it brings to general audiences. Examples are ET, Wizard of Oz, Jurassic Park/World, Jumanji & of course The Avengers.

Vigor - 1/13/2025, 9:30 AM

@AnEye - thanks. I know what it is and gathered it from the directors quote. I just meant to say I'm not an expert and can't comment on whether it was a factor here or not unlike how Josh does in this article

AnEye - 1/13/2025, 9:37 AM

@Vigor - I think it some what was. Then again I thought the movie was OK but I only watched it once and never again. The story they came up with seemed more like a sequel to a successful Flash movie than the actual first Flash feature length.

AgentofSH1ELD - 1/13/2025, 10:12 AM

@Vigor - agreed. I liked the movie. It had its flaws (as all films) but overall I enjoyed it.
My opinion? WB/DC [frick]ed up by announcing James Gunn was taking over and non of the other movies mattered.
At that point, whats the point in going to see a movie that has been built over/ continue building a story we will never get to see? Similar to the Black Adam issue. It was over. no point in investing into something that wont continue.

AgentofSH1ELD - 1/13/2025, 10:13 AM

@AnEye - this is bs. Again, hollywood mumbo jumbo that doesnt matter. 4 quadrants= people that might see a movie in theaters = hardly anyone unless its a massive blockbuster.
4 quadrants my ass.

AnEye - 1/13/2025, 10:17 AM

@AgentofSH1ELD - You can call it whatever you want, but at the end of the day movie studios have always taken this measurement to market their films🤷🏻‍♂️.

AgentofSH1ELD - 1/13/2025, 10:19 AM

@AnEye - Never once heard it on set. Must be higher up than I was.

AnEye - 1/13/2025, 10:25 AM

@AgentofSH1ELD - It's an industry term. Not something worth talking about on the set. Even screenwriting competitions have topics related to writing a script worthy to be considered "four quadrant".
https://screencraft.org/blog/how-to-write-four-quadrant-family-film/

AgentofSH1ELD - 1/13/2025, 10:32 AM

@AnEye - ooooohh no no no. Thank you but no thanks. I dont take hyperlinks from stranger.
I'll take your word for it, but either way I still call BS on that being the reason the movie failed.
It may very well be a unit of false measure, but thats not why the movie failed. At all. The majority of movies are not catered to Women of any age. so right there is 50% of the argument.
Movie failed b/c James Gunn announcement and Ezra Miller backlash. Also, DC properties never got off the ground.

mountainman - 1/13/2025, 10:36 AM

@Vigor - Nobofy denies that the climate changes. We just laugh at the morons who think that the LA fires started by arson and made worse by bad local government policies are called climate change by the cultists.

Vigor - 1/13/2025, 10:41 AM

@mountainman - you don't think it could be all the above ?
Things are drier in California. That is fact based on decades of historical weather data. How could you deny.. actual.. Data?

That doesn't take away that it's also bad local government decisions.
(I personally haven't seen anything about it being arson so I can't comment on that)

AnEye - 1/13/2025, 10:47 AM

@AgentofSH1ELD - I mean there are multiple reasons why the movie failed which Muschetti addressed, but given the audience who went to go see it, 63% of the audience was male and 70% of the audience was older than 25, that still remains true it wasn't a "four-quadrant" movie. It does also explain why Zaslav & Gunn would hype it up (and other reasons why too I'm sure) so much because it wasn't marketed in that way. In only was playing on nostalgia, nothing else.

It has nothing to do if it was marketed towards women.

Now lets compare that to let's say The Avengers which had an exit poll that showed 50% over age 25, and 50% under 25. 60% male and 40% female. 55% were couples and 24% families along with 21% teens. Good example of a movie that meet the "four-quadrant" standards where all types of ages were buying tickets.

So no, I don't think its a BS excuse. Like I said, whether the movie was good or bad is entirely subjective.

mountainman - 1/13/2025, 10:55 AM

@Vigor - They had record rain last year and the local government has policies that either dump that water in the ocean or it goes to a large private owner. That is bad policy.

The other policy that made the fire worse is California’s restriction on cleaning up dead brush from the forrest floor. You know that dead plant matter burns a lot faster than live plant matter right?

What climate change policy are you suggesting would have prevented this? I’ve given you some common sense government policies (saving water in reservoirs from higher rain years in a known dessert area and clearing out highly flammable brush from forrest areas) that would have made it less bad. Your turn.

Vigor - 1/13/2025, 10:58 AM

@mountainman - perhaps you skimmed my reply. I agree local policies were a failure. I'm not hard pressed to deny climate change is impacting California as it is the world all over, like you are

It just seems silly to deny climate change because your party tells you to

mountainman - 1/13/2025, 11:11 AM

@Vigor - Considering that I’m a registered independent, you’d have to back you claim up that “my party told me to think this way” instead of me looking at world historical data to see that 1) the climate has always fluctuated and we are currently in a cooler period than a lot of Earth’s history and 2) natural disaster deaths are at historical lows.

I’m a very environmentally conscious person. Minimize my driving, have solar panels on my home, recycle, etc.

I’m 100% down to live a life where we are good to the environment. What I will be opposed to under any circumstances are:
- My taxes increasing by any amount for any reason
- The government growing in size or spending
- Any of my modern conveniences being banned, restricted or made more expensive.

And all the suggestions do all of those things. If this wasn’t actually a grab to restrict our rights and for the government to gain more control, I’d 100% be down for it.

Vigor - 1/13/2025, 11:23 AM

@mountainman - im glad you're doing your part. Living in Colorado n all

We have had record hot summers. Ice caps are melting. Regardless if this period is cooler than when the dinosaurs roamed rhe earth, it is harmful for human life and impact full to the environment. And humans are the cause

So as you are being environmentally conscious (while denying it oddly enough), we should encourage rhe world to also do the same

mountainman - 1/13/2025, 11:49 AM

@Vigor - So let’s build out nuclear power. It’s by far the most effective green energy technology.

Vigor - 1/13/2025, 11:53 AM

@mountainman - sure. I haven't seen one downside

mountainman - 1/13/2025, 11:58 AM

@Vigor - Some people in the green movement seem to be opposed to it. Like anything there are always competing interests.

I just get tired of blaming everything on climate change, including fires started by arsonists.

AgentofSH1ELD - 1/13/2025, 1:20 PM

@Vigor - Im not a big climate change guy. Here's why:
We have what we can call, a living planet. Over the course of thousands of years, the temperature heats up, then cools back down. This cycle continues over and over. The climate changes. Naturally. Does man affect it? Yes. But not at the rate that is shoved down our throats and cows farting isnt going to speed it up.
Now we recognize this temperature change and because the majority of humanity and specifically Americans have a terrible attention span and memory, focus groups and money grubbers use this recorded data as gospel when its not. Its just...data. Period.
When did we start recording? was it 100 years ago? 200? Seems trivial to say humans have changed the climate of a planet that has been around for a billion years when we (humans) have been around for a far less amount of time than the previous inhabitants of this planet...

Or maybe its the human God complex where we want to be all powerful and convinced ourselves we changed how this entire planet functions and produces weather. Either way, most of the United States East Coast use to be a lake. Now its not. One day, Yellowstone Caldera will erupt. Then it wont matter. Its a living planet.

AgentofSH1ELD - 1/13/2025, 1:21 PM

@mountainman - Please see my response to @vigor. I agree and disagree with both of you. The planet changes the climate, not us. Can we affect it? sure! but not to that level...

mountainman - 1/13/2025, 1:50 PM

@AgentofSH1ELD - I never said that human activity has zero impact on the Earth. But how much are we, how much can not forced culture changes going to help? and are the solutions the climate activists pushing for a net positive are the important things that must be discussed.

For example, the Stop Oil activist group, if they got what they wanted, we’d be pushed back into the stone age. I will vehemently fight against those types of policies.

Vigor - 1/13/2025, 1:59 PM

@mountainman @AgentofSH1ELD

I just fear if we do nothing, we will see (or wont because most of us will be dead from old age) 50 years down the line our kids and grands are living in a more hostile world. And they WILL blame our generation for spending more time arguing about it than actually doing something about it

It reminds me of Tony stark line. "What are we, Avengers? We do our best work AFTER"?
The writing is on the wall and has been for decades. I remember in the 90s scientists were being pretty desperate about it. And still to this day people want to debate if it's a thing. It's like that movie "don't look up".
Why do humans put their heads in the sand. Because it's inconvenient to use paper bags over plastic? I'll take any inconvenience if it's means we are actually DOING SOMETHING

AgentofSH1ELD - 1/13/2025, 2:08 PM

@mountainman - lol the stop oil people are dumb. I think I hate them the most. Like all of them have bubble powered plastic cars and cell phones and computers and most likely non-cotton clothing... All of which would not be possible to have without the byproduct of making fuel from oil. Its the only place we get plastic from.

AgentofSH1ELD - 1/13/2025, 2:25 PM

@Vigor - I actually prefer the nostalgia of the paper bag. I understand your POV but still disagree. There is not enough action that humans can do that will reverse a planetary cooling or warming cycle without physically harming the planet further. From a basic point, lets look at carbon. How much carbon has been released in the atmosphere because of the recent fires? Not only the trees and vegetation burning from Cali's failed forestry management practices (this is a huge thing that gets overlooked), but think about what was in the houses, the cars, the gasoline, everything.
Its cynical to say that no matter what we do it will not help, but there is some proof there. We can potentially curb some, but this full blown get rid of everything action isnt the answer.
Most of the soap boxers dont understand the materials we get from oil to fuel byproduct. We would as mountain man said, be stone aged. And the result would be worse than what we have now...

AgentofSH1ELD - 1/13/2025, 2:29 PM

@Vigor - Also, at any given time a solar flare could wipe out everything we know and love. The planet would survive. We wouldnt. Again, cynical and not saying dont do anything, but more of a we cant control everything point.
Its a God complex that humans think they are affecting this planet. Look at my previous. Think scientifically and remove personal feelings: How long have we been collecting data? It takes more than a few years worth to determine all the factors... Imagine how much worse the pollution would be if we operated our society like China? America gets all the blame but China pushes the most pollution.

Vigor - 1/13/2025, 2:38 PM

@AgentofSH1ELD - if you (God forbid) are diagnosed with cancer and doctor has a list of recommendations to your diet and lifestyle to improve your chances of beating the cancer. Would your response be "we cant control everything" and refuse to do anything about it? And say at any point a meteor could come from the sky and take you out ?

I think you would do anything you can, no matter how small, to mitigate disaster

The planet is our only home. We are but a species of animal living on it. We have to take care of it. Just as you say humans have a god complex, we also have this idea we can do whatever we want with no consequence. Alien civilizations are looking at us, as stubborn and the harbingers of our own destruction. Because we choose to argue about solutions rather than actually do something until it's too late

AgentofSH1ELD - 1/13/2025, 2:46 PM

@Vigor - So give us a viable solution!
Thats my point. There currently are non. Along with no viable proof we are affecting the climate to the level that we are being told we are. Which, I find hard to believe (point me in the direction of proof) that we are.
Melting Ice doesnt mean we are making that happen!!! Again, planet is alive. It has its own heating and cooling cycles. This is science.
Are we talking global climate change or local? Local is relative and yes, can change according to how the area is controlled. But I just have not seen any solid evidence that we have contributed the change we are being accused of. Its all hypothetical at this point. And anyone that believed in the 90s that the world would end in 2030 because of climate change fell ill to fear mongering.

PartyKiller - 1/13/2025, 9:17 AM

Remember that people like Muschietti & Rian Johnson have to do meetings with execs & their colossal box office failures will be brought up. So they come up with a pitch/lie that puts the blame on someone else.

jd2841 - 1/13/2025, 9:20 AM

Hogwash

Lisa89 - 1/13/2025, 9:20 AM

It’s filmNOTgoers that are to blame. According to R.T., about 2 out of 3 critics recommended ‘The Flash’ and 4 out of 5 audience members enjoyed it. The problem was in getting people to go, not the actual quality of the film.

Clintthahamster - 1/13/2025, 9:26 AM

Jesus christ, Josh realized that he wasn't going to have a chance to use Miller's pronouns in the article, so he threw in "Ezra Miller (they/them)" just to rile up the usual suspects. That's "journalism" right there.

TheVisionary25 - 1/13/2025, 9:27 AM

@Clintthahamster - lol, I noticed that too

Seemed calculated

RedFury - 1/13/2025, 9:34 AM

@TheVisionary25 - very calculated, and not at all subtle.

If he wants to be a piece of garbage and insight division, you'd think he'd at least be better at hiding the bread crumbs.

Vigor - 1/13/2025, 9:35 AM

@Clintthahamster - his game is dirty. But i respect it. Can't knock the hustle

DarthOmega - 1/13/2025, 9:50 AM

@Clintthahamster - He does this kinda thing often and "The usual suspects" on BOTH sides chime in. One side chimes in calling him out for it, and the other side rushes in to call them incels or something. Engagement is engagement I guess. This site has been going in this direction for a while. But we keep playing right into his hands.

JoshWilding - 1/13/2025, 9:53 AM

@TheVisionary25 - You guys on this thread of comments read way too much into these things, particularly when I refer to Miller as "their" later in the article.

Don't project your prejudices onto me, folks...

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THE FLASH: Why Andy Muschietti Blaming Filmgoers For The 2023 Movie Failing Doesn't Add Up

The Flash director Andy Muschietti recently pointed the finger at certain members of the "four quadrants of the audience" for the movie being a failure, but this is why his comments simply don't add up...

THE FLASH Director On Movie's Box Office Failure: "It's The Result Of A Mental Health Situation"

THE FLASH: James Gunn Says They're "Holding A Beat" On Developing A New DCU Take On The Scarlet Speedster

DISCLAIMER: As a user generated site and platform, ComicBookMovie.com is protected under the DMCA (Digital Millenium Copyright Act) and "Safe Harbor" provisions.